Discussion
turbomoped said:
Why have cash strapped force india managed to be a bit good with limited resources?
The tiny factory helps. Every department in each others face and doubling up on duties.
You get the impression with mclaren that people would barely aknowledge each other if stood at the coffee machine. Everyone convinced they are doing something more important that anyone else.
Curse of these large corporate hq's where you really are not meant to chat to anyone.
The other big teams seem to manage so maybe they cracked it somehow.
The tiny factory doesn't house all the staff, there are about 100 based locally at the wind tunnel apparently.The tiny factory helps. Every department in each others face and doubling up on duties.
You get the impression with mclaren that people would barely aknowledge each other if stood at the coffee machine. Everyone convinced they are doing something more important that anyone else.
Curse of these large corporate hq's where you really are not meant to chat to anyone.
The other big teams seem to manage so maybe they cracked it somehow.
Also the new owners have announced that they are replacing the tiny old factory with a shiny new factory.....
n3il123 said:
turbomoped said:
Why have cash strapped force india managed to be a bit good with limited resources?
The tiny factory helps. Every department in each others face and doubling up on duties.
You get the impression with mclaren that people would barely aknowledge each other if stood at the coffee machine. Everyone convinced they are doing something more important that anyone else.
Curse of these large corporate hq's where you really are not meant to chat to anyone.
The other big teams seem to manage so maybe they cracked it somehow.
The tiny factory doesn't house all the staff, there are about 100 based locally at the wind tunnel apparently.The tiny factory helps. Every department in each others face and doubling up on duties.
You get the impression with mclaren that people would barely aknowledge each other if stood at the coffee machine. Everyone convinced they are doing something more important that anyone else.
Curse of these large corporate hq's where you really are not meant to chat to anyone.
The other big teams seem to manage so maybe they cracked it somehow.
Also the new owners have announced that they are replacing the tiny old factory with a shiny new factory.....
I feel like Vandoorne has been a bit unlucky to end up in probably the worst car eventually this season, while being team-mate to Alonso. I wonder how he might have fared in an improved car alongside a different team-mate.
Probably he'd be holding his own in qualifying unless the team-mate was Alonso-level, although it's striking that he always ends up behind him even if not by a lot, rather than sometimes getting ahead. And whenever the McLaren's performance has been ok relative to the rest of the grid, he'd suddenly been able to be racing around where he should in that circumstance it seems to me.
I guess other drivers drop out after similar bad luck or harsh calls though. Vergne's race pace seemed favourable to Ricciardo's if anything I seem to remember for example.
Probably he'd be holding his own in qualifying unless the team-mate was Alonso-level, although it's striking that he always ends up behind him even if not by a lot, rather than sometimes getting ahead. And whenever the McLaren's performance has been ok relative to the rest of the grid, he'd suddenly been able to be racing around where he should in that circumstance it seems to me.
I guess other drivers drop out after similar bad luck or harsh calls though. Vergne's race pace seemed favourable to Ricciardo's if anything I seem to remember for example.
CoolHands said:
50 points > 8 points. If it was someone else the only variation would be ? > 8
I just think it's a bit early to conclude that, and of course given 'someone else' could be anyone you don't mean it literally I'm sure.He was only 0.1 seconds behind Fernando Alonso yesterday again in qualifying (admittedly, especially lately, the gaps have sometimes been bigger - near the start of the season he was generally close though). Probably only Lewis Hamilton has matched Alonso, though qualifying specialist Trulli sometimes did get ahead over the one lap too for example.
Looking at World Champion Jenson Button's season alongside Fisichella shows something similar to Alonso-Vandoorne maybe (actually bigger gaps time wise in qualifying more often, but Button did qualify ahead a few times on the other hand; while I guess Button was relatively closer in races maybe but am just guessing a bit as my memory isn't helping so much, and I'm being too lazy to try to look into it as it's more complicated than comparing qualifying - to be fair I did check and using the current points system it would have been closer between those two than Alonso-Vandoorne but then it was Fisichella not Alonso who is really known to be relentlessly quick in races too in general isn't he....).
It is a guess of course, but I think put Vandoorne alongside Stroll, or Perez, or Hartley, or Sirotkin and he probably has a positive qualifying head-to-head rather than a whitewash against. Even alongside Hulkenberg/Sainz/Gasly/Ocon etc I guess it would seem much different to what it does. I could be wrong though, and perhaps Perez for example would do better in races sometimes relative to qualifying.
I suppose there have been harsher calls over the years, but although maybe Stoffel was over-hyped or too much was expected based on GP2, I'm thinking the opposite is happening now and that his talent and pace are pretty good for a Formula 1 driver at least. The car was expected to be faring much better than it has this season, and like mentioned Alonso is probably flattering it in terms of his times and results often (like any really top level driver has done over the years when in lesser cars - but with rare exceptions they don't trouble the best cars very much still in that situation).
Edited by Yours Trulli on Sunday 28th October 09:54
thegreenhell said:
He's been slower than Lando Norris in their FP1 head-to-heads this season. I know it's only FP1 and you don't know exactly what the team's plan is, but if they're trying to evaluate the drivers you'd expect them to have similar run plans for the session.
Yeah, they were pretty much equal this weekend I think though weren't they (you will know better whether that was the case previously too)?I'll stop going on about it now though lol, but was just giving the basis for my original thoughts about things. To be fair the Benetton might have been an inherently trickier car to drive in 2001 (with Jenson struggling with it more it was suggested), and that era might have made it easier for drivers to get bigger gaps to their team-mates in qualifying too.
Button and Vandoore (at McLaren) can actually be a comparison itself I suppose too, albeit with a very small sample size. I remember the Monaco weekend when the car was suddenly up near-ish the top and they were both in contention.
tigerkoi said:
That’s very interesting, thank you. Even more interesting to hear that Red Bull had a similar affliction.
In my mind though it just reinforces what sort of leadership is now required - at the top - and whether or not Brown has the credibility & capacity to join everyone’s hands together and sort the issue/s out. Because if a high-performing team of one lot of engineers can fix an issue in months, then why can’t another lot? I know it sounds simple but it’s a brutal assessment from which to start and then work up from.
It’s my observation but a lot of “CEOs” obviously low ball and kitchen sink when they get their hands on the tiller. It’s everything is a disaster, the last lot were useless and by the way there’s this, this and that. But the really experienced chiefs, the guys who know what a turnaround really entails, who’ve been there and resurrected businesses, they don’t come out with statements like, “....it could be two years, it could be 10”. But Brown just keeps on talking, soundbite after soundbite. In one statement saying things have rapidly happened over “four, five days”, another saying there’s the action plan and and he has solid foundations to build on.
I know there are loads of really insightful technical posters on here and I enjoy reading and learning new stuff from what’s written. But I imagine there are also a fair few who know what the boardroom sharp end is like especially when you’re in the news 24/7.
Leadership, what’s publically said, what’s not, information, information, information, rapid and frequent conversations with dozens and dozens and dozens of people, not just at the top of the food chain, but lower down. Hard work. Relentless. Brutal. Uncertain. And someone like Brown can’t just carry on with cozy evening business dinners with ex-JMI buddies and being Chairman for a few days a month at Motorsport Network, and polishing his car collection, and keeping tabs on how his United team are doing, and.....
Nope. IF, and it’s an IF, this is considered a crisis situation by the board, then it needs someone who can do crisis leadership. Because not just the board then think that, but more importantly the staff need it. They need to know special measures are in town and it’s not BAU anymore. I need, you need, we need, to see a way out this. Like, there’s zero point wasting time wondering how to uncover a genius or get Adrian Newey back. Zero point. Forget it. Not happening. Move on. No silver bullet hiring or firings. Better spend time galvanising a group of engineers to feel like a team and rather than feel belittled that ‘only a genius can help’, that aren’t they talented enough and full of desire to prove otherwise?
“What do you need. I can’t get you this, so what else. Will that do. No, be honest, but don’t let gold standard hold you back, think of silver. Managers out the room, everyone else feed me. No moaning, define issues, give me ideas, however out of stream they might be. Would you bet your mortgage on x, y and z working? Why are you so sure. You over there, what’s your idea. Just do it. Go for it. Why not. I want to see what you find. Anything. Computer results back after hours, you’ve got my mobile, it’s on the intranet. Call me. Between 2 and 6am, text me. You, you and you, no more glass offices, out there with your guys. Now. HR, spreadsheet of everyone’s pay, what’s the spread vs tenure and grades for last 3 years. So he’s been here x time, and since then he’s lost y number of staff and 3 of them were A graders. What did you do. Where’s his exit interview. Now. Who might suddenly hit sick leave. Who’s their #2. Any good. Don’t know. Why not. Oh they both worked together at so and so. So mates, right. Who interviewed. Ok identify the high talent from two grades below. Need names for those four sections by Thursday. Procurement. They said how long. Who said that. Did you speak to their CFO. No. Why not. Standard timelines. Not enough, push them. Offer an ex-gratia for quicker response. He said what. Tell me directly next time and I’ll speak to him. Dave, Karen, Joe, I want an explicit report from each of you on what’s wrong, what led to them being wrong over x period and what the key items to fix in your area and in each other’s. With timelines. No collusion between each other, zero leaning on juniors to write it up, you do it, you’ve got three days and you’ll be presenting it to each other on Monday and you’ll be presenting it to all staff on Tuesday. You’ll have 15 minutes each on the auditorium, then Q&A. Estates management said what. Why can’t the guys sign in outsiders more quickly. I don’t care if they are contractors, they work for us, right. Change it. Today.” On and on...and you got to wake up early every day wanting it. Not not wanting it.
Stress everything, everyone. Stress the buildings lifts. Mainly exploratory to see what might break but it’s not much beyond an insane capacity for hard work. But a lot of “CEOs” don’t do that....Hard work? What? I’m a CEO, I make the BIG decisions. Look at that nice glass award I got from the awards dinner we campaigned the hosts for to be in contention to win the prize. Nice, huh? Nah. Wrong guy, wrong arse in the hot seat. You need a voracious appetite for detail and speaking honestly and directly to the little people. It’s a different skill from managing in “peacetime”, and talking about your career bio at some baubly dinner.
That building up of human dynamic for a junior guy to pop up, pipe up and prick people’s thinking with an offbeat idea that may just get people thinking......that’s a lot of effort. And that has to be driven by the leader.
And guys who can lead through the fire are in short supply. Many just find out they’ve got the skill when it happens. But it’s 24/7, relentless dedication to focussed information gathering and understanding of literally everything, and just forget BBQs and wedding anniversaries. The wife knows. Risk, reward vs divorce.
I watched the telly earlier and saw Mansour Ojjeh in the pit garage. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen him at an event, but may have missed it over time. Of course he’s there to ‘support the troops’ and show that Brown and he are in lockstep and ‘together on this’. Management 101. But I did think, does he really want to hear 2 to 10 years? Really? Anybody with half a brain is realistic. It could be ages. It could be never. And if a good, organised team like Red Bull can sort an issue out in months, it could be soon!
But a ‘crisis’ leader doesn’t say they have a plan after five days, and they communicate a lot to those that matter but say little in public that can be misinterpreted. Calm, honest, decisive but you have to be positive.
But then again. Crisis? Maybe not. Maybe some like the steady p&l, and the supercars sell well, and we just need the odd win, fire some whingers and hold steady for 2021, and let’s stay out the news, ok? All relative.
tigerkoi. Thanks for this post, it got me thinking about my own position at work. Answered a few questions and helped me a lot. I can’t go into specifics but there were a lot of similarities. In my mind though it just reinforces what sort of leadership is now required - at the top - and whether or not Brown has the credibility & capacity to join everyone’s hands together and sort the issue/s out. Because if a high-performing team of one lot of engineers can fix an issue in months, then why can’t another lot? I know it sounds simple but it’s a brutal assessment from which to start and then work up from.
It’s my observation but a lot of “CEOs” obviously low ball and kitchen sink when they get their hands on the tiller. It’s everything is a disaster, the last lot were useless and by the way there’s this, this and that. But the really experienced chiefs, the guys who know what a turnaround really entails, who’ve been there and resurrected businesses, they don’t come out with statements like, “....it could be two years, it could be 10”. But Brown just keeps on talking, soundbite after soundbite. In one statement saying things have rapidly happened over “four, five days”, another saying there’s the action plan and and he has solid foundations to build on.
I know there are loads of really insightful technical posters on here and I enjoy reading and learning new stuff from what’s written. But I imagine there are also a fair few who know what the boardroom sharp end is like especially when you’re in the news 24/7.
Leadership, what’s publically said, what’s not, information, information, information, rapid and frequent conversations with dozens and dozens and dozens of people, not just at the top of the food chain, but lower down. Hard work. Relentless. Brutal. Uncertain. And someone like Brown can’t just carry on with cozy evening business dinners with ex-JMI buddies and being Chairman for a few days a month at Motorsport Network, and polishing his car collection, and keeping tabs on how his United team are doing, and.....
Nope. IF, and it’s an IF, this is considered a crisis situation by the board, then it needs someone who can do crisis leadership. Because not just the board then think that, but more importantly the staff need it. They need to know special measures are in town and it’s not BAU anymore. I need, you need, we need, to see a way out this. Like, there’s zero point wasting time wondering how to uncover a genius or get Adrian Newey back. Zero point. Forget it. Not happening. Move on. No silver bullet hiring or firings. Better spend time galvanising a group of engineers to feel like a team and rather than feel belittled that ‘only a genius can help’, that aren’t they talented enough and full of desire to prove otherwise?
“What do you need. I can’t get you this, so what else. Will that do. No, be honest, but don’t let gold standard hold you back, think of silver. Managers out the room, everyone else feed me. No moaning, define issues, give me ideas, however out of stream they might be. Would you bet your mortgage on x, y and z working? Why are you so sure. You over there, what’s your idea. Just do it. Go for it. Why not. I want to see what you find. Anything. Computer results back after hours, you’ve got my mobile, it’s on the intranet. Call me. Between 2 and 6am, text me. You, you and you, no more glass offices, out there with your guys. Now. HR, spreadsheet of everyone’s pay, what’s the spread vs tenure and grades for last 3 years. So he’s been here x time, and since then he’s lost y number of staff and 3 of them were A graders. What did you do. Where’s his exit interview. Now. Who might suddenly hit sick leave. Who’s their #2. Any good. Don’t know. Why not. Oh they both worked together at so and so. So mates, right. Who interviewed. Ok identify the high talent from two grades below. Need names for those four sections by Thursday. Procurement. They said how long. Who said that. Did you speak to their CFO. No. Why not. Standard timelines. Not enough, push them. Offer an ex-gratia for quicker response. He said what. Tell me directly next time and I’ll speak to him. Dave, Karen, Joe, I want an explicit report from each of you on what’s wrong, what led to them being wrong over x period and what the key items to fix in your area and in each other’s. With timelines. No collusion between each other, zero leaning on juniors to write it up, you do it, you’ve got three days and you’ll be presenting it to each other on Monday and you’ll be presenting it to all staff on Tuesday. You’ll have 15 minutes each on the auditorium, then Q&A. Estates management said what. Why can’t the guys sign in outsiders more quickly. I don’t care if they are contractors, they work for us, right. Change it. Today.” On and on...and you got to wake up early every day wanting it. Not not wanting it.
Stress everything, everyone. Stress the buildings lifts. Mainly exploratory to see what might break but it’s not much beyond an insane capacity for hard work. But a lot of “CEOs” don’t do that....Hard work? What? I’m a CEO, I make the BIG decisions. Look at that nice glass award I got from the awards dinner we campaigned the hosts for to be in contention to win the prize. Nice, huh? Nah. Wrong guy, wrong arse in the hot seat. You need a voracious appetite for detail and speaking honestly and directly to the little people. It’s a different skill from managing in “peacetime”, and talking about your career bio at some baubly dinner.
That building up of human dynamic for a junior guy to pop up, pipe up and prick people’s thinking with an offbeat idea that may just get people thinking......that’s a lot of effort. And that has to be driven by the leader.
And guys who can lead through the fire are in short supply. Many just find out they’ve got the skill when it happens. But it’s 24/7, relentless dedication to focussed information gathering and understanding of literally everything, and just forget BBQs and wedding anniversaries. The wife knows. Risk, reward vs divorce.
I watched the telly earlier and saw Mansour Ojjeh in the pit garage. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen him at an event, but may have missed it over time. Of course he’s there to ‘support the troops’ and show that Brown and he are in lockstep and ‘together on this’. Management 101. But I did think, does he really want to hear 2 to 10 years? Really? Anybody with half a brain is realistic. It could be ages. It could be never. And if a good, organised team like Red Bull can sort an issue out in months, it could be soon!
But a ‘crisis’ leader doesn’t say they have a plan after five days, and they communicate a lot to those that matter but say little in public that can be misinterpreted. Calm, honest, decisive but you have to be positive.
But then again. Crisis? Maybe not. Maybe some like the steady p&l, and the supercars sell well, and we just need the odd win, fire some whingers and hold steady for 2021, and let’s stay out the news, ok? All relative.
12TS said:
tigerkoi. Thanks for this post, it got me thinking about my own position at work. Answered a few questions and helped me a lot. I can’t go into specifics but there were a lot of similarities.
Hi there, it’s an absolute pleasure. I hope you resolve whatever it is you want at work. Turnaround/crisis leadership is tough - but hugely rewarding in so many ways.Could easily go on a williams topic as well. Gloom but at least they are both on the way forward.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/high...
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/high...
turbomoped said:
Could easily go on a williams topic as well. Gloom but at least they are both on the way forward.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/high...
I read this too. I'm not sure what new stuff we learn from it.https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/high...
McLaren have confirmed an entry in the 2019 Indy 500
https://www.indycar.com/News/2018/11/11-10-Fernand...
No details yet if they'll be doing it as part of an existing team or on their own
https://www.indycar.com/News/2018/11/11-10-Fernand...
No details yet if they'll be doing it as part of an existing team or on their own
MartG said:
McLaren have confirmed an entry in the 2019 Indy 500
https://www.indycar.com/News/2018/11/11-10-Fernand...
No details yet if they'll be doing it as part of an existing team or on their own
Will it only be available on BT Sport, like last time, I wonder?https://www.indycar.com/News/2018/11/11-10-Fernand...
No details yet if they'll be doing it as part of an existing team or on their own
carl_w said:
Will it only be available on BT Sport, like last time, I wonder?
I watched the last one on youtube. There were loads of live streams on there, and they didn't seem too concerned about taking them down. Alternatively, if you can wait a few days, the official Indycar youtube channel will upload the whole race afterwards.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff