Mclaren

Author
Discussion

HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Tuesday 27th November
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
I think they’re mad. They’ve gone from Honda to Renault and it’s cost them $100million. And red bull are going the other way!

And it turns out the engine isn’t the problem anyway their entire car and organisation structure is st. They should have saved the hundred mill. and developed the car.

I reckon either engine was fine to propel them. We can can see from other teams with the same engines that the engine is not th main factor in grid position.
Thanks Captain Hindsight!

FourWheelDrift

75,524 posts

220 months

Tuesday 27th November
quotequote all
Fernando Alonso / Jimmie Johnson car swap - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-pAxfbZRIU

I see they used a proper F1 car, one of the V8s smile I wonder what engine that had in it?

CoolHands

8,869 posts

131 months

Tuesday 27th November
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Thanks Captain Hindsight!
Haha yeah it is a bit biggrin

But what makes me laugh is DC always goes on about how the ‘teams have all the data’ when talking about driver swaps etc and who is marginally quicker than another. Yet some numpty at McLaren couldn’t work out that a change in engine wasn’t going to magically propel them up the grid? Have they got st for brains?!!?

TobyTR

230 posts

82 months

Tuesday 27th November
quotequote all
What's everyone's opinion on Ron - if he was still leading McLaren's F1 operation and persisted with Honda into 2018 with total commitment and tunnel-vision, would they be in a better position now?

I understand Ron can be a difficult, complex individual, but he strikes me as he knew what he was doing. Being Honda's sole focus must surely have been better than a customer Renault engine

ralphrj

2,728 posts

127 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
ralphrj said:
There is an investor update on McLaren's financial performance scheduled for next Tuesday (27/11).

Hopefully there will be something positive in them this time.



With regard to budgets, McLaren may still have the 4th largest but the gap to the top 3 is getting bigger.
I've had a quick look through the latest investor update.

Income from the F1 team fell by 41% from £165m to £98m for the 9 months. Then they have the cost of the Renault engine on top. Yikes.

Group turnover and EBITDA were boosted by Automotive (but year on year comparisons are difficult as practically no cars were delivered in the first quarter of 2017).

Cash burn remains horrendous. In the last 15 months the company has borrowed £560m+ through a bond issue and received £100m additional capital from Michael Latifi. At the end of September they only had £6m left in the bank but received £50m of additional investment from Latifi 2 weeks ago. However, at current spending that will have gone before next season starts.


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thegreenhell

4,860 posts

155 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Meanwhile, they say they have no regrets over ditching Honda

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46355179

Also, I'm not sure I understand how their technical structure will work. They now have:

Peter Prodromou - head of aerodynamics
Pat Fry - engineering director
Andrea Stella - performance director
soon to be joined by James Key - technical director.

How many chefs do they need? Who's actually in charge of the design?

DanielSan

13,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Meanwhile, they say they have no regrets over ditching Honda

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46355179

Also, I'm not sure I understand how their technical structure will work. They now have:

Peter Prodromou - head of aerodynamics
Pat Fry - engineering director
Andrea Stella - performance director
soon to be joined by James Key - technical director.

How many chefs do they need? Who's actually in charge of the design?
Mclarens issue summed up on in a few lines? Too many chiefs combined with decision by committee. And going on the last couple of cars you have to wonder if the department's speak to each other before each engineering their own bit?

ralphrj

2,728 posts

127 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
DanielSan said:
thegreenhell said:
Meanwhile, they say they have no regrets over ditching Honda

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46355179

Also, I'm not sure I understand how their technical structure will work. They now have:

Peter Prodromou - head of aerodynamics
Pat Fry - engineering director
Andrea Stella - performance director
soon to be joined by James Key - technical director.

How many chefs do they need? Who's actually in charge of the design?
Mclarens issue summed up on in a few lines? Too many chiefs combined with decision by committee. And going on the last couple of cars you have to wonder if the department's speak to each other before each engineering their own bit?
I remember similar comments about a certain Brackley based team in 2013...

I wouldn't bet much that we are on the verge of 5 seasons of domination though.

FourWheelDrift

75,524 posts

220 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
Meanwhile, they say they have no regrets over ditching Honda

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46355179

Also, I'm not sure I understand how their technical structure will work. They now have:

Peter Prodromou - head of aerodynamics
Pat Fry - engineering director
Andrea Stella - performance director
soon to be joined by James Key - technical director.

How many chefs do they need? Who's actually in charge of the design?
Not enough, Mercedes has:

Executive director (technical): James Allison
Technical director: Bob Bell
Engineering director: Aldo Costa
Technology director: Geoff Willis
Performance director: Mark Ellis


Edited as that had Paddy Lowe on there and not James Allison. People might have changed but the positions haven't.

Kraken

590 posts

136 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
Not for quite a while they haven't.

The Crack Fox

13,180 posts

128 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
Not enough, Mercedes has:

Executive director (technical): James Allison
Technical director: Bob Bell
Engineering director: Aldo Costa
Technology director: Geoff Willis
Performance director: Mark Ellis


Edited as that had Paddy Lowe on there and not James Allison. People might have changed but the positions haven't.
They're making lots of engines, too. Are the people above included in that?

MartG

13,170 posts

140 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
The Crack Fox said:
FourWheelDrift said:
Not enough, Mercedes has:

Executive director (technical): James Allison
Technical director: Bob Bell
Engineering director: Aldo Costa
Technology director: Geoff Willis
Performance director: Mark Ellis


Edited as that had Paddy Lowe on there and not James Allison. People might have changed but the positions haven't.
They're making lots of engines, too. Are the people above included in that?
The engine manufacture is a separate operation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes_AMG_High_Pe...

StevieBee

6,974 posts

191 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
TobyTR said:
What's everyone's opinion on Ron - if he was still leading McLaren's F1 operation and persisted with Honda into 2018 with total commitment and tunnel-vision, would they be in a better position now?

I understand Ron can be a difficult, complex individual, but he strikes me as he knew what he was doing. Being Honda's sole focus must surely have been better than a customer Renault engine
His reasoning for opting for Honda was spot on. My opinion is that McLaren would be in a much better position had he stayed. Perhaps not yet troubling the top two but possibly on par with Red Bull.

Frimley111R

9,133 posts

170 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
His reasoning for opting for Honda was spot on. My opinion is that McLaren would be in a much better position had he stayed. Perhaps not yet troubling the top two but possibly on par with Red Bull.
Well yes, I'd agree but nothing lasts forever. I've made the comparison before but it's like Manchester United and Fergie. Would they have had much better seasons if he had stayed? Of course, but at some point he's going to go and it was the same for McLaren. Replacing such leaders is far from easy as both teams have shown.

carl_w

6,170 posts

194 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
MartG said:
New sponsor announced - smartphone manufacturer OnePlus

https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/partners/oneplus/...
It's not exactly Vodafone though, is it?

M3ax

798 posts

148 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
The numbers don’t work but this F1. I hope it works out for them but this is a turn around job.

tight fart

1,120 posts

209 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
rdjohn said:
It may not be expensive in comparison, but it will be a drain on resources. If Coca-Cola were funding a full season’s racing for Fernando and dedicated team, then I would be inclined to view this slightly differently.
I spent an hour or so with the Chairman of Coca Cola the other week, very interesting views on F1, he spoke very highly of Lewis who they sponsor (monster)

Shame I didn't think to ask about Alfonso and Indy.

RichB

40,648 posts

220 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
tight fart said:
...he spoke very highly of Lewis who they sponsor (monster)...
I didn't realise Monster was a Coca-Cola brand. But then I'm probably not their target market, indeed they probably don't care that people don't realise it's their product just as long as they drink it.

p.s. What is it, a sort of Red Bull type thing?

DanielSan

13,596 posts

103 months

Wednesday 28th November
quotequote all
They own a 20% stake, or around that, in Monster I think. Their original brand was Relentless.

Fortitude

258 posts

128 months

Saturday 1st December
quotequote all
ralphrj said:
I've had a quick look through the latest investor update.

Income from the F1 team fell by 41% from £165m to £98m for the 9 months. Then they have the cost of the Renault engine on top. Yikes.

Group turnover and EBITDA were boosted by Automotive (but year on year comparisons are difficult as practically no cars were delivered in the first quarter of 2017).

Cash burn remains horrendous. In the last 15 months the company has borrowed £560m+ through a bond issue and received £100m additional capital from Michael Latifi. At the end of September they only had £6m left in the bank but received £50m of additional investment from Latifi 2 weeks ago. However, at current spending that will have gone before next season starts.
I haven't read the investor update, from which you have obtained those figures, BUT from what you have written, I do wonder how long McLaren can keep burning cash at the rate that they do.

Do you think that McLaren will be able to survive, at this current rate of cash burn?