Discussion
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Way too many interesting points to address in a forum quote/reply as always Tigerkoi, yours and DS' are some of the few posts and (probably to my detriment) posters who I genuinely look out for and digest.
But I digress and to get to the point above it's still why I love the sport. Yes it's the speed, the cars, the technology, the glamour, the danger but it's the people who I love. The whole dynamic of this "sport" revolves around the amazing characters it attracts and who make it their life's work to succeed in such an environment.
I love business and entrepreneurial-ship too and it's that same dynamic that gives me the buzz in management-building a business around talented people and working each one towards and against others. I'd love to spend 2 years in an F1 team just as a learning curve to see how they manage it all-I imagine it's an all encompassing rollercoaster ride to be honest.
(although having a hair and beauty business probably runs it a close second if I'm honest!)
Kind words, sir, thank you, and the sentiment is mutual But I digress and to get to the point above it's still why I love the sport. Yes it's the speed, the cars, the technology, the glamour, the danger but it's the people who I love. The whole dynamic of this "sport" revolves around the amazing characters it attracts and who make it their life's work to succeed in such an environment.
I love business and entrepreneurial-ship too and it's that same dynamic that gives me the buzz in management-building a business around talented people and working each one towards and against others. I'd love to spend 2 years in an F1 team just as a learning curve to see how they manage it all-I imagine it's an all encompassing rollercoaster ride to be honest.
(although having a hair and beauty business probably runs it a close second if I'm honest!)
Such a fascinating sport and cast of characters that even if someone has a passing interest in strategy and management type talk then you couldn’t but not contribute to most F1 conversations. Years ago, an ex girlfriend bought me a bunch of F1 books for a birthday. They were all generic reads, stats etc, apart from one, “The Piranha Club”. Enlightening read for anyone who hasn’t enjoyed it yet.
Hair & beauty eh? A pretty competitive £8bn UK game right there... Looks like John Paul DiJoria might end up mixing worlds if he and his Rok-whatnot group of companies get seriously involved in F1!
CanAm said:
tigerkoi said:
It’ll surely take a lot for McLaren to get that winning culture back again...... but it will take a special person....... to drive that heart back into the operation for another sustained period at the top.
There was such a person; sadly, he died in June 1970. 
Mark-C said:
CanAm said:
tigerkoi said:
It’ll surely take a lot for McLaren to get that winning culture back again...... but it will take a special person....... to drive that heart back into the operation for another sustained period at the top.
There was such a person; sadly, he died in June 1970. Bruce McLaren was one of the very few drivers (the others being Dan Gurney and Jim Clark) about whom I have never heard a bad word.
CanAm said:
Mark-C said:
CanAm said:
tigerkoi said:
It’ll surely take a lot for McLaren to get that winning culture back again...... but it will take a special person....... to drive that heart back into the operation for another sustained period at the top.
There was such a person; sadly, he died in June 1970. Bruce McLaren was one of the very few drivers (the others being Dan Gurney and Jim Clark) about whom I have never heard a bad word.
CanAm said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Is this what is commonly known as trolling?
No, it's what you call someone who's been a fan of McLaren since 1965 saddened to see their current situation..CanAm said:
I wouldn't know, as I pay very little attention of F1 these days.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
CanAm said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Is this what is commonly known as trolling?
No, it's what you call someone who's been a fan of McLaren since 1965 saddened to see their current situation..CanAm said:
I wouldn't know, as I pay very little attention of F1 these days.
Edited by 37chevy on Wednesday 13th February 13:51
I've been a fan of McL since the start of MP4 days.
I spoke with Dennis at one of the early GF0S events. He was in the #1 McLaren and had lined up to go up the hill. There was an accident - a motorcycle I think - and everyone was told to switch off their engines. I wandered up, with the anticipation of being the last thing he wanted.
It was clear he was having a great time. He is an enthusiast. I thanked him for all the enjoyment he'd given over the years and he took off one racing glove and we shook hands. He chatted away about the season and the #1. It seemed strange to see someone as important to F1 as him being so excited about sitting in the car.
I liked the bloke. A friend had professional dealings with him and said he was refreshing to deal with.
One of the greats of F1.
Despite him no longer being at the helm, I'm still a fan of McL but a bigger fan of Dennis.
I spoke with Dennis at one of the early GF0S events. He was in the #1 McLaren and had lined up to go up the hill. There was an accident - a motorcycle I think - and everyone was told to switch off their engines. I wandered up, with the anticipation of being the last thing he wanted.
It was clear he was having a great time. He is an enthusiast. I thanked him for all the enjoyment he'd given over the years and he took off one racing glove and we shook hands. He chatted away about the season and the #1. It seemed strange to see someone as important to F1 as him being so excited about sitting in the car.
I liked the bloke. A friend had professional dealings with him and said he was refreshing to deal with.
One of the greats of F1.
Despite him no longer being at the helm, I'm still a fan of McL but a bigger fan of Dennis.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
CanAm said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Is this what is commonly known as trolling?
No, it's what you call someone who's been a fan of McLaren since 1965 saddened to see their current situation..CanAm said:
I wouldn't know, as I pay very little attention of F1 these days.
Have to say, I think some people are looking through somewhat rose tinted glasses at Ron Dennis. Yes he achieved great things at Mclaren and was responsible for building Mclaren into what they are today but in the last maybe decade, possibly more of his time at Mclaren, it's far from obvious that he himself wasn't becoming part of the problem at Mclaren with some of his more let's just say unusual character quirks. Mclaren were as well going from bad to worse after he returned having pushed out Whitmarsh and arguably had been undermining him for the last couple of years to boot. Just because he was hugely successful in the 80s and 90s doesn't mean he was necessarily the right person now to continue to lead Mclaren forward. Now it can be argued he could hardly be any worse than Zak Brown and yes the way he was treated was poor but Ron Dennis was never going to go quietly either.....
CanAm said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
CanAm said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Is this what is commonly known as trolling?
No, it's what you call someone who's been a fan of McLaren since 1965 saddened to see their current situation..CanAm said:
I wouldn't know, as I pay very little attention of F1 these days.
Without knowing when you last did pay attention to F1 it might be worth investigating your team, they bare little to Bruce's custodianship other than a small amount of nostalgia. Not to mention old Teddy who seems to have been written out of history.
isaldiri said:
Have to say, I think some people are looking through somewhat rose tinted glasses at Ron Dennis. Yes he achieved great things at Mclaren . . .
I'm not sure how much more rosy you can get than McLaren's F1 success. All those WCCs, winning all but one race in a season. What hurt the team most was the absolutely outrageous fine. Many people might think it was almost designed to cripple McL. When Brundle spoke against Mosley's attacks on McL he was threatened with what amounted to loss of his job on TV and probably writing. That McL came out of it intact is a miracle.Dennis opted to leave the Merc engine. We don't know why, although many people seem to know on here. He went with one of the most successful engine producers of his era and it did not pay off.
He certainly did achieve great things at McL. When you look at other team managers/owners who tried and utterly failed to make an impression on the sport, I think great is too weak a word.
For those who didn't see Dennis before money became the overwhelming factor in the sport, perhaps one can forgive them if they don't realise how quickly McL rose from nowhere to trading WDCs with Williams. Great days to watch and to read about.
Dennis was one of the greats in F1 motor racing. Nothing can take away that. He's battled well-financed teams, favouritism with tyres, and what Brundle said was a witch-hunt by those in charge.
How much rosier can Dennis get?
Dennis gets criticised for the performance of McL seemingly on the grounds of it isn't performing as well as it used to.
And all that F1 success was literally decades ago. As I said, Ron Dennis absolutely achieved a huge amount in F1 but the world moves on. Not many people remain at the top over such an extended amount of time and it's far from obvious as I said that Ron Dennis was still the right person to lead Mclaren now.
I am with Derek on this.
No customer team is going to win a WDC with the current formula. Ron recognised this and signed a brilliant deal with Honda - a stroke of pure genius.
Except it all went pear-shaped. It was right that Ron should pay the ultimate price, but his intentions were correct.
They are now racing in the fastest customer division once again - they will struggle to better Renault who have committed huge resources. There only real hope is that the Honda PU continues to be an absolute dog.
No customer team is going to win a WDC with the current formula. Ron recognised this and signed a brilliant deal with Honda - a stroke of pure genius.
Except it all went pear-shaped. It was right that Ron should pay the ultimate price, but his intentions were correct.
They are now racing in the fastest customer division once again - they will struggle to better Renault who have committed huge resources. There only real hope is that the Honda PU continues to be an absolute dog.
rdjohn said:
I am with Derek on this.
No customer team is going to win a WDC with the current formula. Ron recognised this and signed a brilliant deal with Honda - a stroke of pure genius.
Except it all went pear-shaped. It was right that Ron should pay the ultimate price, but his intentions were correct.
They are now racing in the fastest customer division once again - they will struggle to better Renault who have committed huge resources. There only real hope is that the Honda PU continues to be an absolute dog.
Where it gets confusing is did it go pear shaped because of the culture that Ron instilled at McLaren? It would certainly seem so to me as an outsider looking in.No customer team is going to win a WDC with the current formula. Ron recognised this and signed a brilliant deal with Honda - a stroke of pure genius.
Except it all went pear-shaped. It was right that Ron should pay the ultimate price, but his intentions were correct.
They are now racing in the fastest customer division once again - they will struggle to better Renault who have committed huge resources. There only real hope is that the Honda PU continues to be an absolute dog.
I agree it was 100% the correct decision to stop being a customer team. At the time the only thing McLaren wanted was to be champions and that will never happen as a customer in a engine dominated formula. Now they would be happy with regular wins for a few seasons I think.
Kraken said:
Where it gets confusing is did it go pear shaped because of the culture that Ron instilled at McLaren? It would certainly seem so to me as an outsider looking in.
I agree it was 100% the correct decision to stop being a customer team. At the time the only thing McLaren wanted was to be champions and that will never happen as a customer in a engine dominated formula. Now they would be happy with regular wins for a few seasons I think.
I think it went pear shaped for a number of reasons.I agree it was 100% the correct decision to stop being a customer team. At the time the only thing McLaren wanted was to be champions and that will never happen as a customer in a engine dominated formula. Now they would be happy with regular wins for a few seasons I think.
1) The culture didn't adapt to keep pace with the development model needed
2) Ron vs Martin
3) A board that didn't challenge / inspect sufficiently (too many egos?)
4) The ambition to be manufacturer backed was right but the realisation of what it would take to catch up was optimistic at best (by McLaren and Honda)
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