Discussion
37chevy said:
I think it’s right to knock Alonso to be fair. I agree it’s 70-80% Mclarens Clusterf
k, but he’s still the one that had to set the car up, and still the one who crashed their number 1 car, losing the team a days running.
Lolk, but he’s still the one that had to set the car up, and still the one who crashed their number 1 car, losing the team a days running. Drivers dont set the cars up. They give feedback.
thegreenhell said:
37chevy said:
I think it’s right to knock Alonso to be fair. I agree it’s 70-80% Mclarens Clusterfk, but he’s still the one that had to set the car up, and still the one who crashed their number 1 car, losing the team a days running.
The engineers set the car up. Feedback from the driver is just one of the inputs they'll use to determine that setup. It can take years to acquire the knowledge to do this for something as specialised as a speedway course. It was McLaren who had the spare car sat in a paint shop 30 miles away because it was slightly the wrong shade of orange, when it should have been at the track ready to run if needed. Other teams had crashes too, but were able to get their driver out in the spare car that same day, not two days later.k, but he’s still the one that had to set the car up, and still the one who crashed their number 1 car, losing the team a days running. What I find most interesting is that Alonso just isn’t daft. Far from it. He’s got a highly cognitive and logical intelligence. Like a lot of the really top drivers, he’s no dum dum. Poor decisions aside - and who hasn’t made those - he’s a smart guy. Denying otherwise is just being disingenuous.
He must surely see Brown and co for what they are, and can likely guess that they just aren’t in the right shape as a business, team or organisation to look deeply competitive at anything, right now. Too much lousy decision making.
So what’s his real motive? Yeah I get the whole Triple Crown narrative and love for racing at the sharp end, but sticking with McLaren in this phase is beyond bizarre. Sure, he could sit in a chair and easily say to Zak, “Zak, crawl over here and kiss my shoes?”, and Brown would do so, which inclines that having that sort of power is a draw in itself...
But I can only deduce that with the whole Kimoa thing, and being worth upwards of a 1/4 billion dollars, Alonso behind the scenes is building lots of the bits and pieces to start his own racing or bigger business concern. He’s a smart guy, so this public wasting of time must be for a bigger reason...
tigerkoi said:
But I can only deduce that with the whole Kimoa thing, and being worth upwards of a 1/4 billion dollars, Alonso behind the scenes is building lots of the bits and pieces to start his own racing or bigger business concern. He’s a smart guy, so this public wasting of time must be for a bigger reason...
America is a huge potential market, with little interest in F1, so him appearing in a US racing series is great for marketingThe silly bellends had the arrogance to go for the win, by building up their own car, despite the fact they don't have any real oval experience. Presumably because McLaren.
Why oh why not just get another car off the shelf and brand it, like last time? Obviously they'll struggle to have joined up with a Honda team, seeming they fell out with them over something or other...
They are the Man Utd of the Motor Racing world.
Why oh why not just get another car off the shelf and brand it, like last time? Obviously they'll struggle to have joined up with a Honda team, seeming they fell out with them over something or other...
They are the Man Utd of the Motor Racing world.
MartG said:
tigerkoi said:
But I can only deduce that with the whole Kimoa thing, and being worth upwards of a 1/4 billion dollars, Alonso behind the scenes is building lots of the bits and pieces to start his own racing or bigger business concern. He’s a smart guy, so this public wasting of time must be for a bigger reason...
America is a huge potential market, with little interest in F1, so him appearing in a US racing series is great for marketingI can’t remember where we all talked about it, which thread, but I think I expressed my view that the guys like Button, Rosberg, Hill, those level of guys are quite happy with what they achieved and standing around with a microphone after their career is over, like a Smash Hits presenter...they’re sort of comfortable with.
But the really high achievers, like in many fields, just aren’t satisfied that way. Guys like Senna, Lauda, Piquet, Prost etc were/would be, always looking for something more, something bigger. Their egos demand it. When Hamilton’s career is done could you see him running around after some 19yo teeny asking for a few words on the grid? Nahhh. The top guys are above that.
I think Alonso is looking to his future and building something himself, like Keke did, or Jody did post-career.
tigerkoi said:
thegreenhell said:
37chevy said:
I think it’s right to knock Alonso to be fair. I agree it’s 70-80% Mclarens Clusterfk, but he’s still the one that had to set the car up, and still the one who crashed their number 1 car, losing the team a days running.
The engineers set the car up. Feedback from the driver is just one of the inputs they'll use to determine that setup. It can take years to acquire the knowledge to do this for something as specialised as a speedway course. It was McLaren who had the spare car sat in a paint shop 30 miles away because it was slightly the wrong shade of orange, when it should have been at the track ready to run if needed. Other teams had crashes too, but were able to get their driver out in the spare car that same day, not two days later.k, but he’s still the one that had to set the car up, and still the one who crashed their number 1 car, losing the team a days running. What I find most interesting is that Alonso just isn’t daft. Far from it. He’s got a highly cognitive and logical intelligence. Like a lot of the really top drivers, he’s no dum dum. Poor decisions aside - and who hasn’t made those - he’s a smart guy. Denying otherwise is just being disingenuous.
He must surely see Brown and co for what they are, and can likely guess that they just aren’t in the right shape as a business, team or organisation to look deeply competitive at anything, right now. Too much lousy decision making.
So what’s his real motive? Yeah I get the whole Triple Crown narrative and love for racing at the sharp end, but sticking with McLaren in this phase is beyond bizarre. Sure, he could sit in a chair and easily say to Zak, “Zak, crawl over here and kiss my shoes?”, and Brown would do so, which inclines that having that sort of power is a draw in itself...
But I can only deduce that with the whole Kimoa thing, and being worth upwards of a 1/4 billion dollars, Alonso behind the scenes is building lots of the bits and pieces to start his own racing or bigger business concern. He’s a smart guy, so this public wasting of time must be for a bigger reason...
janesmith1950 said:
Why oh why not just get another car off the shelf and brand it, like last time? Obviously they'll struggle to have joined up with a Honda team, seeming they fell out with them over something or other...
They expected to work with Andretti Autosport again. Honda said no.Andretti having technical partnership with Harding Steinbrenner Racing who originally ran Chevy. Powers that be said no due to conflict of interests.
Ed Carpenter Racing are next best Chevy team and arguably Indy's quickest team. They didn't want nothing to do with the Alonso freakshow.
Only Carlin reached out. What does Zak do after disastrous Indy quali? Throws them under the bus after saying how gracious the Indycar paddock compared to F1. Good luck asking for a favour in the Indycar paddock next time...
This this smelled like typical McLaren SNAFU from the start. Small rookie team trying to operate as a big team. Hire Bob Fernley and yet you have Gil De Ferran who has the experience. I still don't get why Gil was hired in the first place. Comfort blanket for Alonso? Marshall Pruett confirmed my suspicions that he's not management material.
Easy to point out but I still think arrogance is the wrong word. McLaren went about this all wrong. Alonso should have stepped out early and deferred a year. He must've known it was bad news for Indy. McLaren should have run a driver of lesser magnitude than Alonso at Indy or run some races to get experience, get mistakes out of the way.
entropy said:
janesmith1950 said:
Why oh why not just get another car off the shelf and brand it, like last time? Obviously they'll struggle to have joined up with a Honda team, seeming they fell out with them over something or other...
...Gil De Ferran......Marshall Pruett confirmed my suspicions that he's not management material.
Easy to point out but I still think arrogance is the wrong word. McLaren went about this all wrong. Alonso should have stepped out early and deferred a year. He must've known it was bad news for Indy. McLaren should have run a driver of lesser magnitude than Alonso at Indy or run some races to get experience, get mistakes out of the way.
Especially the last bit; a very interesting and pragmatic way of looking at how maybe they should have approached it.
Thanks.
jsf said:
Lol
Drivers dont set the cars up. They give feedback.
Errrr yes, I know this. My point is, you’re assuming Alonso knows what he’s talking about in terms of changing the setup with the tools they have...remember the drivers can change weight jackets, ride heights and a load of other things inside the cockpit during a run...with Andretti it was easy, he openly admitted in 2017 Andretti engineers helped/ coached him along the way...he didn’t have that this time Drivers dont set the cars up. They give feedback.
I’m not for one second suggesting Alonso is an idiot but if Alonso can’t translate what he wants to the engineers (who we know were inexperienced) then it’s never going to end well
Edited by 37chevy on Wednesday 22 May 06:44
Edited by 37chevy on Wednesday 22 May 06:46
cjm said:
It does seem odd that he didn't ditch McLaren and sign for a top IndyCar team for a full season. Maybe he was thinking they would turn the F1 team around and he could jump back in if the car was good enough?!
Simply put, Alonso isn’t interested in doing the full season and no team wanted to take him on just for the raceEdited by cjm on Wednesday 22 May 08:36
37chevy said:
Simply put, Alonso isn’t interested in doing the full season and no team wanted to take him on just for the race
He wasn't able to do a full season this year anyway, due to clashes with his WEC commitments. What was interesting in his interviews after qualifying was his non-committal stance to coming back to Indy next year, as he said he was waiting to see what other racing options were available to him for next year. I'm sure he feels that he still has unfinished business in F1.37chevy said:
janesmith1950 said:
Would love to see him in a Mercedes, either team mate to Hamilton or against Hamilton in a Ferrari. That would surely guarantee a Ferrari WDC!
Why would they need him? Hamilton would guarantee that on his own, without the internal politics Which, let’s face it, would give the sport a much needed shot in the arm right now!
tigerkoi said:
37chevy said:
janesmith1950 said:
Would love to see him in a Mercedes, either team mate to Hamilton or against Hamilton in a Ferrari. That would surely guarantee a Ferrari WDC!
Why would they need him? Hamilton would guarantee that on his own, without the internal politics Which, let’s face it, would give the sport a much needed shot in the arm right now!
Sad to say though that I think we won't see Alonso again, not after yet another debacle at Indy. It's the pure arrogance of McLaren that saw them not partner up with Andretti again and go it alone and thinking they could do it. They haven't managed to do well in their own bread and butter racing, why did they think they could do it in America like that?
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