Discussion
sgtBerbatov said:
If Bernie was around that would/could happen, but Liberty aren't in to that. So it won't happen.
Sad to say though that I think we won't see Alonso again, not after yet another debacle at Indy. It's the pure arrogance of McLaren that saw them not partner up with Andretti again and go it alone and thinking they could do it. They haven't managed to do well in their own bread and butter racing, why did they think they could do it in America like that?
Hey there, I generally agree with you about Bernie being able to influence such a move. But on Liberty, I think it’s rather not they they aren’t into doing that, more that they just haven’t got that sort of horizontal/vertical ability to twist arms and make things happen. Sad to say though that I think we won't see Alonso again, not after yet another debacle at Indy. It's the pure arrogance of McLaren that saw them not partner up with Andretti again and go it alone and thinking they could do it. They haven't managed to do well in their own bread and butter racing, why did they think they could do it in America like that?
Liberty as we all know are a formal corporation with defined shareholder interests and people like Maffei, Bratches and Carey who are mere employees. Well remunerated of course, but and this is my opinion, in the world of US media and sports marketing not even in the top 5-10% of executives out there. Carey and co are the B-team.
Bernie was an entrepreneur and his ability and levity to negotiate and perform the black arts is well beyond what the like a few suits in Liberty can ever do. Even if they were able to in the first place...
Your view on the Indy debacle I also share but the reasons for lack of options for Alonso I think Entropy and others have nailed down.
37chevy said:
Errrr yes, I know this. My point is, you’re assuming Alonso knows what he’s talking about in terms of changing the setup with the tools they have...remember the drivers can change weight jackets, ride heights and a load of other things inside the cockpit during a run...with Andretti it was easy, he openly admitted in 2017 Andretti engineers helped/ coached him along the way...he didn’t have that this time
I’m not for one second suggesting Alonso is an idiot but if Alonso can’t translate what he wants to the engineers (who we know were inexperienced) then it’s never going to end well
Prepping the car, a spec one at that is so, so important because it comes down to small details. Two key things: reducing internal friction from components and reducing drag.I’m not for one second suggesting Alonso is an idiot but if Alonso can’t translate what he wants to the engineers (who we know were inexperienced) then it’s never going to end well
Edited by 37chevy on Wednesday 22 May 06:44
Edited by 37chevy on Wednesday 22 May 06:46
With the former it'll come things like bearings, fluids and other internals within geabox, transmission, drivetrain. As laughable to the ignoramuses and those keen to bash McLaren the gear ratios excuse would seem to be a valid one because the tolerances are so small.
There's a lot of talk about reducing drag. It's not just wing angles. It's minimising the panel gaps as much as panels. Marshall Pruett - ex Indycar mechanic BTW - said he saw massive gaps on Alonso's car. Worth listening to his podcasts over the last couple of days for the McLaren post-mortem.
thegreenhell said:
He wasn't able to do a full season this year anyway, due to clashes with his WEC commitments. What was interesting in his interviews after qualifying was his non-committal stance to coming back to Indy next year, as he said he was waiting to see what other racing options were available to him for next year. I'm sure he feels that he still has unfinished business in F1.
Apart from Indy, Alonso simply has no interest in Indycar or WEC. Brendon Hartley is his replacement at Toyota. He simply wants to cement a legacy in motorsports. And I agree F1 is unfinished which is why Zak is so keen to keep hold of him and it seems Alonso is willing to show loyalty just so he can jump straight back into a race winning McLaren.
sgtBerbatov said:
Sad to say though that I think we won't see Alonso again, not after yet another debacle at Indy. It's the pure arrogance of McLaren that saw them not partner up with Andretti again and go it alone and thinking they could do it. They haven't managed to do well in their own bread and butter racing, why did they think they could do it in America like that?
That was the original intention before engine politics got in the way.It all started going downhill when the Indy project was publicly announced and were playing musical chairs afterwards.
tigerkoi said:
Obviously the Ferrari team has done so, Mercedes & Toto too, with Bernie covering the Brabham days, but has anyone from McLaren said any nice words in representation for Lauda yet?
I may have missed it, so happy to have it pointed out.
Posts and photos on their social media accounts, and they've got a graphic on the cars. I haven't seen any videos for any teams etc though, so that won't be everything.I may have missed it, so happy to have it pointed out.
ajprice said:
tigerkoi said:
Obviously the Ferrari team has done so, Mercedes & Toto too, with Bernie covering the Brabham days, but has anyone from McLaren said any nice words in representation for Lauda yet?
I may have missed it, so happy to have it pointed out.
Posts and photos on their social media accounts, and they've got a graphic on the cars. I haven't seen any videos for any teams etc though, so that won't be everything.I may have missed it, so happy to have it pointed out.
I only caught a little bit of TV coverage between errands this morning, saw Zak Brown still trying to frame the story about the Indy situation but didn’t hear his thoughts on Lauda.
Thanks.
Great story in an old issue of Motorsport where Keke talks about there being some ongoing drivers riot or something over some issue or other. Keke being Keke just wasn’t interested until he and the other drivers were hoodwinked into a lock-in at a hotel by Pironi and Lauda until those two got the consensus they wanted!
MartG said:
entropy said:
ash73 said:
37chevy said:
Alonso isn’t interested in doing the full season
Says who?entropy said:
MartG said:
entropy said:
ash73 said:
37chevy said:
Alonso isn’t interested in doing the full season
Says who?keirik said:
Petrus1983 said:
What a f
k up. McLaren do seem to be quite arrogant in their current place in motorsport.
Do they? Why?k up. McLaren do seem to be quite arrogant in their current place in motorsport.They f
ked up, but they didn't say they expected to win, they've just demonstrated its hard to win.What's arrogant about that?
https://apnews.com/a8653967a9714ac7a9a3ba576f712ff...
Bullitt Five-Oh said:
keirik said:
Petrus1983 said:
What a fk up. McLaren do seem to be quite arrogant in their current place in motorsport.
Do they? Why?k up. McLaren do seem to be quite arrogant in their current place in motorsport.They f
ked up, but they didn't say they expected to win, they've just demonstrated its hard to win.What's arrogant about that?
https://apnews.com/a8653967a9714ac7a9a3ba576f712ff...
& to be fair did not want to post it..
Thanks..
MartG said:
The WEC commitments that have him in the Toyota until the middle of next month. The ones which would have prevented him competing in the first half of the Indycar season.
He's not clearly not interested in Indycar nor WEC. Having too many commitments was an excuse. Lots of endurance drivers race in other series to fill their time and pay the bills; Scott Dixon, Simon Pagenaud, Ryan Hunter Reay have raced in IMSA as well as Indycar fulltime.If his heart was in it Alonso could easily at least done WEC and a select number of races in Indycar.
entropy said:
MartG said:
The WEC commitments that have him in the Toyota until the middle of next month. The ones which would have prevented him competing in the first half of the Indycar season.
He's not clearly not interested in Indycar nor WEC. Having too many commitments was an excuse. Lots of endurance drivers race in other series to fill their time and pay the bills; Scott Dixon, Simon Pagenaud, Ryan Hunter Reay have raced in IMSA as well as Indycar fulltime.If his heart was in it Alonso could easily at least done WEC and a select number of races in Indycar.
rdjohn said:
entropy said:
Last year Pietro Fittipaldi was doing both Indycars part-time and WEC - well, that was the plan before smashing his legs at Spa so that kind of deal is possible.
Did he have a big-bucks exclusive contract with Toyota, as well?WEC isn't particularly fulfilling time wise. That's why there was uproar from some drivers when Alonso initially signed up to it and FIA rejigged the calendar which meant Fuji WEC clashed with Petit Le Mans as there were drivers who signed up to do both.
Further to that, there were no direct date clashes between Indy and WEC races in 2019 anyway.
He probably just doesn't want to get tied up into doing loads of Indycar stuff when he feels he still has a shot of getting back into a half-decent F1 car. Maybe when he's completely over F1 he'll have a proper go at Indycar, and aim to complete a triple crown of titles as well as the individual races. He's likely to become WEC World Champion this year to go with his F1 titles.
He probably just doesn't want to get tied up into doing loads of Indycar stuff when he feels he still has a shot of getting back into a half-decent F1 car. Maybe when he's completely over F1 he'll have a proper go at Indycar, and aim to complete a triple crown of titles as well as the individual races. He's likely to become WEC World Champion this year to go with his F1 titles.
To bring the discussion back to the team:
The accounts for 2018 have now been published and are terrible (as expected).
Income fell from £197m in 2017 to £124m in 2018. This is £8m less than Williams earned last year.
Costs increased, presumably as a result of having to pay for the Renault engine, so the loss before tax increased from £16m in 2017 to £102m in 2018. The loss was partially reduced by the £10m profit made selling off some of the teams collection of historic racing cars.
Headcount was virtually unchanged at 714 compared to 706 in 2017. However, salary costs ballooned by nearly 20% from £51m to £60m (potentially the team having to pay at least part of Alonso's salary instead of Honda).
Despite the poor performance one Director was paid £3.7m (£0.6m in 2017).
The team now owes other companies in McLaren £141m.
The accounts for 2018 have now been published and are terrible (as expected).
Income fell from £197m in 2017 to £124m in 2018. This is £8m less than Williams earned last year.
Costs increased, presumably as a result of having to pay for the Renault engine, so the loss before tax increased from £16m in 2017 to £102m in 2018. The loss was partially reduced by the £10m profit made selling off some of the teams collection of historic racing cars.
Headcount was virtually unchanged at 714 compared to 706 in 2017. However, salary costs ballooned by nearly 20% from £51m to £60m (potentially the team having to pay at least part of Alonso's salary instead of Honda).
Despite the poor performance one Director was paid £3.7m (£0.6m in 2017).
The team now owes other companies in McLaren £141m.
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