Lost Former Formula 1 Tracks
Discussion
If you watch a VLN race on the Nordschleife, you'll notice that all the overtaking between the quick GT3 cars happens on the long straight and on the GP track. The Nordschleife is narrower than most modern tracks, and there really is only one line for the really quick cars, with very few big braking zones. It's very impressive to watch them at full speed on that track, but they wouldn't be 'racing' for most of the lap. It's a bit like Monaco in that regard - a high speed procession.
I am not sure Niki Lauda would be entirely behind a return to the Nordschleife...As for 'insanely boring' , not like the thrill a minute of Bahrain or Singapore then? Or the spectator free joke that is Baku?
I suspect it'd be nearly as boring as the original Spa .Which I could live with ....
I suspect it'd be nearly as boring as the original Spa .Which I could live with ....
Lentilist said:
At what point does an old layout of a track that's still in use count as "lost"? I've always been weirdly fascinated by the old Interlagos layout and how the current layout reuses bits of it. Probably just me...
The old layout is still all there, they haven't pulled up any of the tarmac. It forms run offs, and access roads, or if you are Kimi the occasional wrong turn. 
I have mentioned it before on PH but I hugely recommend Motorsport Explorer by Julian Hunt. It is a guide to the 800 (really ) venues in UK used for racing and speed events, with details of venue history , notable winners and accidents . Julian worked for the Ordnance Survey and exact sites location etc is very precise . Fascinating to find what is/was on your doorstep - I live in North Yorkshire and Yorkshire as a whole has 64 venues , including (amazingly ) 8 race circuits , several of which were ad hoc use of RAF sites such as Catterick and Linton on Ouse . Obviously it's anorak stuff but I don't apologise for being one ...there is something very haunting about seeing a site , such as Rufforth where as a teenager I saw Hunt etc in F3 .
coppice said:
I have mentioned it before on PH but I hugely recommend Motorsport Explorer by Julian Hunt. It is a guide to the 800 (really ) venues in UK used for racing and speed events, with details of venue history , notable winners and accidents . Julian worked for the Ordnance Survey and exact sites location etc is very precise . Fascinating to find what is/was on your doorstep - I live in North Yorkshire and Yorkshire as a whole has 64 venues , including (amazingly ) 8 race circuits , several of which were ad hoc use of RAF sites such as Catterick and Linton on Ouse . Obviously it's anorak stuff but I don't apologise for being one ...there is something very haunting about seeing a site , such as Rufforth where as a teenager I saw Hunt etc in F3 .
Thanks for this info, found a copy on Abe books £15 plus post so it's on its way,didn't know of it's existence so thanks again.sgtBerbatov said:
Joshsl said:
I wonder what is stopping the F1 going back to the nordschleife, other than the Armco having to be changed. tey have the pits and things like that on the normal GP circuit so is it just money stopping them?
I think it's the safety aspect. Nordschleife is bumpy as hell, and I don't think the F1 cars could handle it safely. Plus you have the TV aspect (which forced Hockenheim to be shortened) as well to consider.Some circuits find it very hard to make money from F1 (eg Silverstone) Having an F1 slot on the calendar is not all its cracked up to be.
Then theres all the infrastructure, so new pits,roads,comms etc which a big chunk of cash for one weekend a year.You could spend it and then not have your contract renewed after a few years.
The other truth is that many of these old circuits will not suit a modern F1 car. A lot of the newer circuits were designed by Hermann Tilke. He has been condemned for building boring tracks,which some may argue that from a spectators point of view they are,however they are designed to push the limits of modern F1 car design and comply with much much tougher safety standards.
Rose tinted glasses and all that, but the days of a dozen blokes turning up with a car built in a shed on the back of a transit, are long long gone.
You wouldn't expect Man Utd to turn up at your local rec ground every other Saturday,yes its possible they could play there but for multiple reasons it wont happen.
As with just about every subject, we tend to leap from extreme to extreme. As in, if we miss some old 'characterful' tracks, we then have to go all the way back to a dozen blokes in a van, and if that's not possible then we have to say that there is no issue with tracks / cars etc in 2018.. Both of which are nonsense.
But, the spirit of this thread it to show and chat about old loved tracks, not the 'It will never happen again' usual malarkey...
But, the spirit of this thread it to show and chat about old loved tracks, not the 'It will never happen again' usual malarkey...
Fire99 said:
As with just about every subject, we tend to leap from extreme to extreme. As in, if we miss some old 'characterful' tracks, we then have to go all the way back to a dozen blokes in a van, and if that's not possible then we have to say that there is no issue with tracks / cars etc in 2018.. Both of which are nonsense.
But, the spirit of this thread it to show and chat about old loved tracks, not the 'It will never happen again' usual malarkey...
Sure, point takenBut, the spirit of this thread it to show and chat about old loved tracks, not the 'It will never happen again' usual malarkey...
Plenty of these tracks are still working tracks,which is great,long may it continue.
bristolracer said:
Fire99 said:
As with just about every subject, we tend to leap from extreme to extreme. As in, if we miss some old 'characterful' tracks, we then have to go all the way back to a dozen blokes in a van, and if that's not possible then we have to say that there is no issue with tracks / cars etc in 2018.. Both of which are nonsense.
But, the spirit of this thread it to show and chat about old loved tracks, not the 'It will never happen again' usual malarkey...
Sure, point takenBut, the spirit of this thread it to show and chat about old loved tracks, not the 'It will never happen again' usual malarkey...
Plenty of these tracks are still working tracks,which is great,long may it continue.
FourWheelDrift said:
It would also be insanely boring. Just as it always was, follow my leader through miles of narrow twisty track. The TCR were there recently 3 lap race due to the length so 13 miles of boring racing per lap until they got onto the main straight, then more action on the modern section but only 3 times a race.
Completely disagree. Maybe boring to the casual viewer but I can't see how its insanely boring for followers of motorsport.I find Touring Cars blazing through the 'Ring absolutely fascinating. They are on the absolute limit. The suspension and tyres are worked to the limits through bumps, high speed corners and twisting undulations.
The style of racing is a contrast its generally more old-school and respectful because of the consequences of having a massive high speed shunt between the armco in close proximity.
100% in agreement. The excitement of watching a car cope with humps, bumps, adverse cambers, close barriers etc and seeing the dynamics of the vehicle as it moves about is way more fascinating to watch than mere speed and mere overtaking.
Modern circuits designed with modern F1 cars in mind have pretty much neutered that aspect of motorsport.
Modern circuits designed with modern F1 cars in mind have pretty much neutered that aspect of motorsport.
moffspeed said:
But for the ultimate French GP circuit head up to the Auvergne and you will find Clermont Ferrand. Venue for the French GP in the late 60s/early 70s. Google it, it was awesome. Hearing Ferrari and Matra V12 s around the mountainside must have been something special....
Something special is certainly one description for it......... 
No way F1 would ever get insured even to race at the Ring.
it is not for them and I would never want it to be.
It is fabulous relic left to anyone who wants to drive on, that fact alone should mean F1 never goes near the place as they ruin every track they ever visit.
With Brands being ruined as a spectator venue and others likely too, the Ring for me is sacred earth. Nowhere even comes remotely close, not Spa, Monaco or anywhere else.
I have taken people there with not a shred of petrol in their blood, who have felt the same after a few hours.
Leave it alone thanks.
it is not for them and I would never want it to be.
It is fabulous relic left to anyone who wants to drive on, that fact alone should mean F1 never goes near the place as they ruin every track they ever visit.
With Brands being ruined as a spectator venue and others likely too, the Ring for me is sacred earth. Nowhere even comes remotely close, not Spa, Monaco or anywhere else.
I have taken people there with not a shred of petrol in their blood, who have felt the same after a few hours.
Leave it alone thanks.
aeropilot said:
Something special is certainly one description for it.........
OK, just tried my old Yardley BRM anorak for size....Must be 1969 and the middle car is a GLT Lotus 49, I'm guessing Graham Hill as Jochen Rindt retired with motion sickness. Looks like Piers Courage in the Brabham in the foreground and probably Vic Elford in the McLaren up front. Long gone is JYS in the Matra who put in one of those virtuoso performances whereby everyone else was supporting cast that day.
Removes anorak.
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