Lost Former Formula 1 Tracks
Discussion
F1GTRUeno said:
I can't believe anyone in here would seriously suggest modern F1 on the Nordschleife. Seems like a staggering lack of awareness of just about every facet of the current day sport.
Absolutely agree, but I think the general drift is that the sport needs to be as safe as possible but would benefit from characterful circuits. Driver safety is high profile but, arguably, spectator safety is more important - the recent changes at Brands reflect this ethos. I remember the last time that the A1GP cars visited Brands I felt quite vulnerable standing within a few metres of the track at Paddock - some circuits have been outgrown by the pace of modern top-category single seaters. A car in the crowd scenario would have serious consequences for UK motorsport in the current elf & safety climate.I guess Spa, Suzuka & Silverstone are good examples of spectacular racing whilst not compromising (within reason) on safety. Racing at Ricard and having to remember which block of coloured lines delineates the circuit is surely not the future, not sure about a return to Rouen though...
I didn't think this was a discussion about which old tracks people would actually like to see return to the F1 calendar. I don't think I'd want F1 to revisit any of them, not that there's even 1% chance of that happening, not least because modern F1 is a monster that destroys any sense of history or old character in virtually anywhere it visits.
thegreenhell said:
I didn't think this was a discussion about which old tracks people would actually like to see return to the F1 calendar. I don't think I'd want F1 to revisit any of them, not that there's even 1% chance of that happening, not least because modern F1 is a monster that destroys any sense of history or old character in virtually anywhere it visits.
Couldn't agree more.Many lost F1 "circuits" were never circuits in the first place. They were just closed down public roads - which is the ancestral DNA of European motor sport and Grand Prix racing. On that basis, we will never see racing at venues like that again (except for those that have survived, sometimes with massive modification, like Monaca, Spa, Pau etc).
The last thing I would want would be modern F1 going anywhere near an old style circuit.
I'd give a kidney to relive the 1986 GP weekend at Brands - standing at the point before Druids when the cars were still accelerating out of Paddock Hill was sheer sensory overload . Huge speed, lots of noise (and far more variety of engines than the current near spec engine in F1 ) and the eye watering reek of the rocket fuel then much in vogue . I could not have loved it more...
Irritatingly young people who weren't born then will now tell me I'm wearing my rosy tint specs and that venues such as Yas Marina are sooo much better ...
Next to Brands , I adored Imola (where I went for the 87 GP ) - the Italians were hugely amused we weren't Manselll fans but liked the red machines more . Fabulous drive there as well.
Zandvoort ('85 , sadly the last Ducth GP ) was very endearing . It felt like Skegness, great views from sand dunes and near deserted on the Saturday . Great chips too.
Back at Brands in 2 weeks time - for the first time since, and that will feel weird .
Irritatingly young people who weren't born then will now tell me I'm wearing my rosy tint specs and that venues such as Yas Marina are sooo much better ...
Next to Brands , I adored Imola (where I went for the 87 GP ) - the Italians were hugely amused we weren't Manselll fans but liked the red machines more . Fabulous drive there as well.
Zandvoort ('85 , sadly the last Ducth GP ) was very endearing . It felt like Skegness, great views from sand dunes and near deserted on the Saturday . Great chips too.
Back at Brands in 2 weeks time - for the first time since, and that will feel weird .
TVR Moneypit said:
coppice said:
Irritatingly young people who weren't born then will now tell me I'm wearing my rosy tint specs and that venues such as Yas Marina are sooo much better ...
In which case they would be wrong 
Edited by TVR Moneypit on Thursday 28th June 19:21
However it’s no coincidence that we all seem to favour the era that coincided with our teens and twenties either....and support a similar level of conviction about its superiority
There is no doubt that older circuits often possessed charm and usually had better scenery. Some of the old circuits still exist and are in use and it would be mad to see them butchered to match the needs of modern F1.
I like to see trees and elevation changes and I hate massive run off areas.
I like to see trees and elevation changes and I hate massive run off areas.
Vocal Minority said:
In fairness I don’t think many would actually argue Yas Marina is better
However it’s no coincidence that we all seem to favour the era that coincided with our teens and twenties either....and support a similar level of conviction about its superiority
Oddly enough, I was in my mid 30s at the time and I try consciously not to fall into the trap of thinking it was all better when I was younger. Some wasn't - F3 had great drivers but tedious cars , but rallying (gp B was sublime ) and FF1600 was wonderful.However it’s no coincidence that we all seem to favour the era that coincided with our teens and twenties either....and support a similar level of conviction about its superiority
But other eras deserve credit - peak Supertouring in late 90s was amazing , and 90s and early noughties F3 cars were lovely . As for F1 , much as I loved the sturm und drang of the turbo era, the purist in me probably loved the first few atmo years of V8s , 10s and 12 s from 89 to late nineties - when I was in my late forties... .
I loved the non-wing era (pre 1968) and I also liked the cars of the early 1990s - so eras almost a quarter of a century apart in F1 history.
I was not so keen on the turbo cars.
I haven't really liked the "space ship/mission control" era we have had since the 2000s. Ironically, I love space and spaceflight but I prefer my mission controls to be directing space exploration - not racing cars.
I was not so keen on the turbo cars.
I haven't really liked the "space ship/mission control" era we have had since the 2000s. Ironically, I love space and spaceflight but I prefer my mission controls to be directing space exploration - not racing cars.
Have to agree with Eric, in the last year since F1 left Sepang it has opened up a lot more for club racing, of course we are in a sweet spot where we still have high FI maintenance levels, and that will fall off, but F1 did nothing for the circuit from the prospective of local drivers/clubs.
I think depends on your age
Some people yearn for the very dangerous days of old Spa, Avus, Monza etc.
I prefer the days before endless chicanes and track safety, so the late 80's and early 90's.
Massive grids, pre-qualifying, tyre wars, multiple engine choices. Big fag sponsors keeping teams and drivers in the sport who would never be there now.
As for best cars, the turbo era always, huge power, manual cars, tricky to drive, you could see an artist like Prost.
You cant see that at all anywhere in modern F1.
Some people yearn for the very dangerous days of old Spa, Avus, Monza etc.
I prefer the days before endless chicanes and track safety, so the late 80's and early 90's.
Massive grids, pre-qualifying, tyre wars, multiple engine choices. Big fag sponsors keeping teams and drivers in the sport who would never be there now.
As for best cars, the turbo era always, huge power, manual cars, tricky to drive, you could see an artist like Prost.
You cant see that at all anywhere in modern F1.
Now, that, is a valid point.
I am going to be honest - when it comes to modern cars, I think a lot of fans who talk about how they love Hamilton because 'he drives it like he stole it'.
I reckon if you put him and Bottas in identical helmets and took the numbers off the cars 99.99% of people would be hard pressed to tell the difference. People see what they want to see in a driver. The cars are so on rails - if you didn't have a stop watch I think the overwhelming majority would be hard pushed to tell anything.
I couldn't.
If the drivers had more to do in terms of the fundamentals of car control, rather than fiddling with the diff a little, then it may be easier to do.
I am going to be honest - when it comes to modern cars, I think a lot of fans who talk about how they love Hamilton because 'he drives it like he stole it'.
I reckon if you put him and Bottas in identical helmets and took the numbers off the cars 99.99% of people would be hard pressed to tell the difference. People see what they want to see in a driver. The cars are so on rails - if you didn't have a stop watch I think the overwhelming majority would be hard pushed to tell anything.
I couldn't.
If the drivers had more to do in terms of the fundamentals of car control, rather than fiddling with the diff a little, then it may be easier to do.
Fire99 said:
Circuit de Charade..
Can't beat a race track built around a volcano..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3KLqhXyo18
That looks amazing!Can't beat a race track built around a volcano..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3KLqhXyo18
Polrules said:
These photos always make me sad - must look even more 'lost' now as this was some time ago - Hockenheim....
Me too.... Hockenheim had its own unique challenge and charm. You can't tick a box on a spreadsheet and say why.. It just had its unique character and presented a huge challenge for the teams to cater for the two extremes (two very very long straights and then an infield section)Fire99 said:
Polrules said:
These photos always make me sad - must look even more 'lost' now as this was some time ago - Hockenheim....
Me too.... Hockenheim had its own unique challenge and charm. You can't tick a box on a spreadsheet and say why.. It just had its unique character and presented a huge challenge for the teams to cater for the two extremes (two very very long straights and then an infield section)Sam993 said:
What they did to Hockenheim is criminal. The old track was a one of a kind and destroying it like that is like knocking down Tate Modern and replacing it with something made out of steel and glass only so that it looks more "modern".
Herman Tilke wanted to keep the old circuit - https://www.racefans.net/2014/07/15/wanted-keep-ol... but Hockenheim were threatened to change it or lose it by "F1 officials" which means either Heir Spanky Mosley or the poisoned dwarf.FourWheelDrift said:
Sam993 said:
What they did to Hockenheim is criminal. The old track was a one of a kind and destroying it like that is like knocking down Tate Modern and replacing it with something made out of steel and glass only so that it looks more "modern".
Herman Tilke wanted to keep the old circuit - https://www.racefans.net/2014/07/15/wanted-keep-ol... but Hockenheim were threatened to change it or lose it by "F1 officials" which means either Heir Spanky Mosley or the poisoned dwarf.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff