Short Term Overseas Assignment in Japan - Proposing Terms
Discussion
I work for a subsidiary of a major Japanese company. I am based in mainland Europe. In the interests of better understanding what our parent company expects, I have been asked to undertake a short term (three months) secondment into said parent company. I have been given a two-sided briefing of the assignment and what the objectives are, which I am happy with.
Our company has many visitors from the parent company (both long and short term) but this has never been reciprocated. As such, I don't think either company are exactly sure of what arrangements should apply to my secondment. All they have proposed so far is return travel and adherence to parent company work practices upon arrival. It is confirmed that I will return to my old role upon completion, which suits me. My salary and package remains as it is currently and will be paid into my bank account in my home country. My manager has asked me to come up with a list of preferences relating to logistics, travel, uplifts etc.
I have worked overseas before as an expat and as a local hire, but have never undertaken a short term secondment so I'm not really sure what to request. I am therefore looking for any guidance or suggestions. It really is a blank sheet of paper so feel free to be creative! I add that I am keen to undertake the assignment (both professionally and personally). I also note that, although I have been asked first, they will not find a volunteer in our team due to various reasons. In that regard, I am doing the company a favour by signing up.
Personal circumstances are married with no kids. No major commitments to my current geographical location, other than the wife. The only negative is being away from home for a block of time. The positives are many.
My current thoughts on what I might propose are:
- Return business class flights with an additional 'home trip' in the middle of the secondment (three months in a block is too long relationship wise).
- 20% uplift on current salary (don't really need the extra money, but would like acknowledgement of the sacrifice).
- Accommodation (ideally a decent hotel or serviced apartment) provided and paid for directly by company.
- Per diem allowance of (say) £100 to cover food, drink, travel and laundry (cleaner than expensing everything?)
- Medical insurance cover by the company, assuming my current private health insurance will not cover.
Anything I'm missing?
Our company has many visitors from the parent company (both long and short term) but this has never been reciprocated. As such, I don't think either company are exactly sure of what arrangements should apply to my secondment. All they have proposed so far is return travel and adherence to parent company work practices upon arrival. It is confirmed that I will return to my old role upon completion, which suits me. My salary and package remains as it is currently and will be paid into my bank account in my home country. My manager has asked me to come up with a list of preferences relating to logistics, travel, uplifts etc.
I have worked overseas before as an expat and as a local hire, but have never undertaken a short term secondment so I'm not really sure what to request. I am therefore looking for any guidance or suggestions. It really is a blank sheet of paper so feel free to be creative! I add that I am keen to undertake the assignment (both professionally and personally). I also note that, although I have been asked first, they will not find a volunteer in our team due to various reasons. In that regard, I am doing the company a favour by signing up.
Personal circumstances are married with no kids. No major commitments to my current geographical location, other than the wife. The only negative is being away from home for a block of time. The positives are many.
My current thoughts on what I might propose are:
- Return business class flights with an additional 'home trip' in the middle of the secondment (three months in a block is too long relationship wise).
- 20% uplift on current salary (don't really need the extra money, but would like acknowledgement of the sacrifice).
- Accommodation (ideally a decent hotel or serviced apartment) provided and paid for directly by company.
- Per diem allowance of (say) £100 to cover food, drink, travel and laundry (cleaner than expensing everything?)
- Medical insurance cover by the company, assuming my current private health insurance will not cover.
Anything I'm missing?
Your first, third and fifth point are sensible and reasonable. I'd definitely go down the serviced apartment route - a hotel will do your head in for 3 months. I'd also suggest that the mid Secondment trip be flexible as to whether you come home or your partner is flown out. It's a nice way of binding them up in the experience.
The 20% uplift is a piss take and I would counsel against embarrassing yourself by asking. You may want to look into what the COLA index is for Tokyo vs where you live and ask for that but, again, if it were me, you'd be getting knocked back as your cost of living isn't actually going up.
As for the daily allowance, I'd be more inclined to agree a policy and expense what you actually spend, then you have more flexibility.
The 20% uplift is a piss take and I would counsel against embarrassing yourself by asking. You may want to look into what the COLA index is for Tokyo vs where you live and ask for that but, again, if it were me, you'd be getting knocked back as your cost of living isn't actually going up.
As for the daily allowance, I'd be more inclined to agree a policy and expense what you actually spend, then you have more flexibility.
Progressive said:
- Per diem allowance of (say) £100 to cover food, drink, travel and laundry (cleaner than expensing everything?)
If I was on the receiving end of that request as a manager, I would be suggesting a much lower per diem and providing an authorised company credit card (not necessarily receipted).£100 per day leaving the business with no traceability / accountability for 3 months? That's £10k gone with no records.
For the record, my employers (a huge multinational) have £5 per diem, everything else with receipts on individual company CC.
@ClaphamGT3 and @JonChalk Thank you very much. A very helpful insight from people who clearly have experience with this sort of thing! As mentioned, I have absolutely no frame of reference so have nothing to go from.
Regarding the per diem arrangement or similar, I actually have a company card so it may be that I just use that if the company agrees. As initially mentioned, I'm not trying to click extra money here, definitely not, I just don't want to sell myself short!
Please keep the suggestions coming. It is much appreciated!
Regarding the per diem arrangement or similar, I actually have a company card so it may be that I just use that if the company agrees. As initially mentioned, I'm not trying to click extra money here, definitely not, I just don't want to sell myself short!
Please keep the suggestions coming. It is much appreciated!
Edited by Progressive on Saturday 21st July 17:44
A quick bit of googling found this which may be useful in framing sensible, evidence-based discussions on allowances and equitable expense levels;
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_citi...
We're on holiday with friends at the moment and the husband of the other couple is an Exec for Sony, based in the U.K. But spending 2 weeks out of every month in Tokyo. I showed him this thread and he made a few observations;
- Japanese colleagues will see it as their role to take you out after work and entertain you; this is cultural and should not be turned down unless there is a good and genuine reason
- Colleagues (particularly those who are peers or slightly subordinate) will invite you to their homes and include you in outside work social gatherings. Particularly if they know you are around at the weekend. Same rules as above apply and swat up on Japanese etiquette.
- In the office, be ready for those less senior than you being very deferential and seemingly lacking in initiative and deferring to you. Much more so than they would if they were in U.K. Or you were working with them remotely
- Be alive to the little things; i.e. no one who reports to you will leave the office until you do so don't work late at the office because you don't have anything else to do
- Plan trips and excursions fro the weekends - it's really easy to get out of Japan and around the country
Hope this helps
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_citi...
We're on holiday with friends at the moment and the husband of the other couple is an Exec for Sony, based in the U.K. But spending 2 weeks out of every month in Tokyo. I showed him this thread and he made a few observations;
- Japanese colleagues will see it as their role to take you out after work and entertain you; this is cultural and should not be turned down unless there is a good and genuine reason
- Colleagues (particularly those who are peers or slightly subordinate) will invite you to their homes and include you in outside work social gatherings. Particularly if they know you are around at the weekend. Same rules as above apply and swat up on Japanese etiquette.
- In the office, be ready for those less senior than you being very deferential and seemingly lacking in initiative and deferring to you. Much more so than they would if they were in U.K. Or you were working with them remotely
- Be alive to the little things; i.e. no one who reports to you will leave the office until you do so don't work late at the office because you don't have anything else to do
- Plan trips and excursions fro the weekends - it's really easy to get out of Japan and around the country
Hope this helps
I also work for a large Japanese company (auto OEM) and went out there for 3 months on assignment a couple of years ago.
No flights home were offered and to be honest I didn’t need them, Skype and FaceTime is so good now that we could talk every day and see each other.
An apartment is a must, if only to be able to have a lazy day at a weekend or to cook your own meals.
My company offered my usual salary plus a living allowance of ~£60 per day and ~£100 per day at weekends which paid for all sorts.
Totally agree with claphams post on the etiquette, enjoy the ‘nomikai’s’ (drinking parties) and use it as an opportunity to build relationships. You’ll be an outsider to begin with and it takes some time to build a level of respect and trust with the Japanese. (In my experience)
No flights home were offered and to be honest I didn’t need them, Skype and FaceTime is so good now that we could talk every day and see each other.
An apartment is a must, if only to be able to have a lazy day at a weekend or to cook your own meals.
My company offered my usual salary plus a living allowance of ~£60 per day and ~£100 per day at weekends which paid for all sorts.
Totally agree with claphams post on the etiquette, enjoy the ‘nomikai’s’ (drinking parties) and use it as an opportunity to build relationships. You’ll be an outsider to begin with and it takes some time to build a level of respect and trust with the Japanese. (In my experience)
A few years ago, I was seconded into an African office for just under a year from my UK-based firm.
There was a grossing-up/double taxation clause in my agreement in case I was hit by unrecoverable double taxation in both jurisdictions. It is complicated and the indemnity itself was treated by HMRC as a benefit in kind. I can't recall the exact details because, as it was one of the Big Four accounting firms, I left them to sort it out and I ended up no worse off. But it took some structuring and head-scratching.
I believe anything under six months minus a day is unlikely to give rise to any tax implications but it might be worth asking/checking if this is the first time the traffic has gone that way.
There was a grossing-up/double taxation clause in my agreement in case I was hit by unrecoverable double taxation in both jurisdictions. It is complicated and the indemnity itself was treated by HMRC as a benefit in kind. I can't recall the exact details because, as it was one of the Big Four accounting firms, I left them to sort it out and I ended up no worse off. But it took some structuring and head-scratching.
I believe anything under six months minus a day is unlikely to give rise to any tax implications but it might be worth asking/checking if this is the first time the traffic has gone that way.
I am coming to end of a similar attachment, albeit in the USA. I have a serviced apartment (nothing flash but does the job), use of a shared hire car, $70 per day for food/extras.
It's absolute pants and I cannot wait to get home to the family. My travelling overseas with work are coming to an end soon I hope!
It's absolute pants and I cannot wait to get home to the family. My travelling overseas with work are coming to an end soon I hope!
I'm currently on a similar gig in Western Australia. We have global mobility guidelines and for this neck of the woods are:
Premium economy flights
Serviced apartment provided by company
Transfers to airports in uk and in country
A per diem of 70 aud
International medical cover
Remain on home salary, pension, sickness cover etc
8hrs travel time each way
Visa costs paid for by company
I also managed to negotiate a 10% uplift and 2 x return flights to the uk as I had holidays planned. Officially there would be no uplift or return flights on offer which I do think is a bit miserly.
Premium economy flights
Serviced apartment provided by company
Transfers to airports in uk and in country
A per diem of 70 aud
International medical cover
Remain on home salary, pension, sickness cover etc
8hrs travel time each way
Visa costs paid for by company
I also managed to negotiate a 10% uplift and 2 x return flights to the uk as I had holidays planned. Officially there would be no uplift or return flights on offer which I do think is a bit miserly.
Edited by ShyTallKnight on Sunday 22 July 04:00
Edited by ShyTallKnight on Sunday 22 July 04:02
Have done it before. Large multinationals.
- Uplift in one case, paid overtime every day even though I didn't actually do any overtime in another case
- Flights, with a midway return trip
- Everything I eat or drink and anytime I take any transport, it's expenses
- Accommodation provided
The expenses are a major PITA to keep track of. Per diem is far preferable just because you won't spend an entire day or more every month just doing your expenses.. Although I remember once on expenses, I was in a restaurant and I just couldn't decide which if two dishes to order. Then I realised one was too cheap so I got the more expensive one
I think the uplift is quite justified. If you are living as a family, most of your expenses are fixed. You or your family will likeky incur some new expenses, just because you aren't around. For example, you may be good at fixing something (your family car, say). Your wife is good at something else. With both of you together, there are many day to day issues which one of you can fix yourself. With one of you away, you will often have to pay someone to fix it. The uplift compensates for this.
I've been there and I've done that: even if staying in a low cost developing country fir a short period, your total spend at home and on assignment will go up.
- Uplift in one case, paid overtime every day even though I didn't actually do any overtime in another case
- Flights, with a midway return trip
- Everything I eat or drink and anytime I take any transport, it's expenses
- Accommodation provided
The expenses are a major PITA to keep track of. Per diem is far preferable just because you won't spend an entire day or more every month just doing your expenses.. Although I remember once on expenses, I was in a restaurant and I just couldn't decide which if two dishes to order. Then I realised one was too cheap so I got the more expensive one
I think the uplift is quite justified. If you are living as a family, most of your expenses are fixed. You or your family will likeky incur some new expenses, just because you aren't around. For example, you may be good at fixing something (your family car, say). Your wife is good at something else. With both of you together, there are many day to day issues which one of you can fix yourself. With one of you away, you will often have to pay someone to fix it. The uplift compensates for this.
I've been there and I've done that: even if staying in a low cost developing country fir a short period, your total spend at home and on assignment will go up.
Edited by creampuff on Wednesday 25th July 22:29
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff