Goodbye Fernando...

[A44RON]

Baffling how anybody who's watched F1 can NOT rate Alonso. Even if they're a newbie. Seeing what he did in a dog McLaren and in various average Ferraris was rather special. To even finish runner-up in 2010, 2012 and 2013 with those Ferraris and a handful "don't rate him"...

Given the machinery he's been in, in terms of his own performances he's actually not had a 'bad' year since 2007.

In fact over 18 years, 2007 was the only season where he showed insecurities and didn't perform as well as he could've. 2001 he flattered the Minardi in his debut year, 2002 Renault test driver showing more potential than Button, 2003 outdrove the Renault and became youngest winner of a grand prix at that time, 2004 continued success, 2005 WDC... He's a textbook definition of high-performing consistency.

As great as Hamilton is i can count at least two, maybe three, seasons in 11 years where Hamilton could've performed better. But crucially, he made the right move at the right time and has been in more race-winning cars.

[Vaud]

A44RON said:

Baffling how anybody who's watched F1 can NOT rate Alonso.

I think there are 2 Alonsos that people judge.

The driver is superb.
The personality is divisive and at times, highly corrosive.

Overall I think he is a loss to the sport, but I will remember a flawed, selfish genius (like Schumacher, Senna, etc)

[Exige77]

Vaud said:

A44RON said:

Baffling how anybody who's watched F1 can NOT rate Alonso.

I think there are 2 Alonsos that people judge.

The driver is superb.
The personality is divisive and at times, highly corrosive.

Overall I think he is a loss to the sport, but I will remember a flawed, selfish genius (like Schumacher, Senna, etc)

How can he be a genius ?

Even a flawed and selfish one ?

He made so many wrong decisions ?

A good driver maybe ?

[A44RON]

Exige77 said:

Vaud said:

A44RON said:

Baffling how anybody who's watched F1 can NOT rate Alonso.

I think there are 2 Alonsos that people judge.

The driver is superb.
The personality is divisive and at times, highly corrosive.

Overall I think he is a loss to the sport, but I will remember a flawed, selfish genius (like Schumacher, Senna, etc)

How can he be a genius ?

Even a flawed and selfish one ?

He made so many wrong decisions ?

A good driver maybe ?

So many wrong decisions? Really only two stand out - his behaviour at McLaren in 2007 (part of that down to poor management from the team) and his decision to leave Ferrari.

There is no denying - in every F1 car he raced, he squeezed the absolute maximum out of each and every one. Name one F1 driver on the current grid who would've performed better in those cars?

But in your view "a good driver maybe" - that stands more for Felipe Massa or Rubens Barrichello, than Alonso. Hilarious.

[hairyben]

whatxd said:

Sa Calobra said:

Only a few points away..using that thinking being mentioned a few times then we would have:

Damon Hill four times WDC
Lewis Hamilton six times WDC

Sorry I didn't rate Alonso. A devisive character and not a complete driver who could develop a car.

He was beaten by a rookie at the height of his talent.

Lewis went to a team that everyone said he was mad to join. Look at how that turned out?

Alonso took a good car/team at Ferrari and slagged it off and left bad blood.

Blames everyone but himself.

In which alternate reality is Damon Hill "a few points away" from being a 4 time WDC?

Sounds like a wonderful place, full of fantasy and fiction.

I dunno about that but Damon's another who deserved better than some of the sheds he had to pedal (and indeed flatter) but with Damon it was probably more his own lack of ruthlessness that put him there, so quite the opposite of free.

[Exige77]

A44RON said:

Exige77 said:

Vaud said:

A44RON said:

Baffling how anybody who's watched F1 can NOT rate Alonso.

I think there are 2 Alonsos that people judge.

The driver is superb.
The personality is divisive and at times, highly corrosive.

Overall I think he is a loss to the sport, but I will remember a flawed, selfish genius (like Schumacher, Senna, etc)

How can he be a genius ?

Even a flawed and selfish one ?

He made so many wrong decisions ?

A good driver maybe ?

So many wrong decisions? Really only two stand out - his behaviour at McLaren in 2007 (part of that down to poor management from the team) and his decision to leave Ferrari.

There is no denying - in every F1 car he raced, he squeezed the absolute maximum out of each and every one. Name one F1 driver on the current grid who would've performed better in those cars?

But in your view "a good driver maybe" - that stands more for Felipe Massa or Rubens Barrichello, than Alonso. Hilarious.

Decisions don’t all have to be big ones ?

It’s the build up of small ones that defined him.

So great that no one wants him in their team.

Off to division two then.

[A44RON]

Exige77 said:

Decisions don’t all have to be big ones ?

It’s the build up of small ones that defined him.

So great that no one wants him in their team.

Off to division two then.

I'm sure he's crying into his 150 million+ net worth, no matter if a handful of PH posters don't rate him.

[Exige77]

A44RON said:

Exige77 said:

Decisions don’t all have to be big ones ?

It’s the build up of small ones that defined him.

So great that no one wants him in their team.

Off to division two then.

I'm sure he's crying into his 150 million+ net worth, no matter if a handful of PH posters don't rate him.

No one said he’s not made a load of money. Good luck to him on that front. Getting $30/$40M out of Honda/Maca for 3/4 years was indeed a great financial move but doesn’t make him one of the all time great drivers.

[Norfolkit]

A44RON said:

Exige77 said:

Decisions don’t all have to be big ones ?

It’s the build up of small ones that defined him.

So great that no one wants him in their team.

Off to division two then.

I'm sure he's crying into his 150 million+ net worth, no matter if a handful of PH posters don't rate him.

But Exige has a point, he says he still loves F1 and may come back. But, while recognising his talent as a driver, no top team wants him, why's that, it's the baggage that comes with him.

[The Vambo]

whatxd said:

Sa Calobra said:

Only a few points away..using that thinking being mentioned a few times then we would have:

Damon Hill four times WDC
Lewis Hamilton six times WDC

Sorry I didn't rate Alonso. A devisive character and not a complete driver who could develop a car.

He was beaten by a rookie at the height of his talent.

Lewis went to a team that everyone said he was mad to join. Look at how that turned out?

Alonso took a good car/team at Ferrari and slagged it off and left bad blood.

Blames everyone but himself.

In which alternate reality is Damon Hill "a few points away" from being a 4 time WDC?

Sounds like a wonderful place, full of fantasy and fiction.

Every other point is pretty hard to argue with though, presumably why you ignored them.....

[Kraken]

Norfolkit said:

But Exige has a point, he says he still loves F1 and may come back. But, while recognising his talent as a driver, no top team wants him, why's that, it's the baggage that comes with him.

Or all the top teams already have one top driver and there's no point in having two as all you do is take points off each other and cause friction. Not to mention the amount of money it costs.

Ricciardo is supposed to be a nice guy who is easy to work with and is a great driver but he couldn't get a drive with Mercedes or Ferrari (the only teams worth bothering to drive for) either.

[Stan the Bat]

Norfolkit said:

A44RON said:

Exige77 said:

Decisions don’t all have to be big ones ?

It’s the build up of small ones that defined him.

So great that no one wants him in their team.

Off to division two then.

I'm sure he's crying into his 150 million+ net worth, no matter if a handful of PH posters don't rate him.

But Exige has a point, he says he still loves F1 and may come back. But, while recognising his talent as a driver, no top team wants him, why's that, it's the baggage that comes with him.

Then it seems as though top teams don't want someone who can win them races.

Strange.

[Order66]

Stan the Bat said:

Then it seems as though top teams don't want someone who can win them races.

Strange.

To be fair, the teams with cars capable of winning races already have drivers capable of winning races. Teams like McLaren don't really need a driver capable of winning, they just need a couple of drivers capable of getting as good a result as the car is capable of - and to be fair, almost all of the drivers on the grid are extremely talented and capable of getting the positions the car deserves. The teams really have to be at the sharp end to need the differentiator that a driver like Alonso could bring.

[Vaud]

Stan the Bat said:

Then it seems as though top teams don't want someone who can win them races.

Strange.

They all have fast drivers.

They don't want the challenge of managing Alonso vs their existing driver.

Ferrari don't want him back...

The top teams have come to a parallel strategy that implies a lead driver strategy. The management bandwidth and PR nightmare of two very high performing drivers is too much.

[Stan the Bat]

I would still have in my team (if I had one that is)

[whatxd]

The Vambo said:

whatxd said:

Sa Calobra said:

Only a few points away..using that thinking being mentioned a few times then we would have:

Damon Hill four times WDC
Lewis Hamilton six times WDC

Sorry I didn't rate Alonso. A devisive character and not a complete driver who could develop a car.

He was beaten by a rookie at the height of his talent.

Lewis went to a team that everyone said he was mad to join. Look at how that turned out?

Alonso took a good car/team at Ferrari and slagged it off and left bad blood.

Blames everyone but himself.

In which alternate reality is Damon Hill "a few points away" from being a 4 time WDC?

Sounds like a wonderful place, full of fantasy and fiction.

Every other point is pretty hard to argue with though, presumably why you ignored them.....

Maybe I found the point about Damon Hill being a few points away from being a 4 time WDC so outrageous that I wanted more information.

[Kccv23highliftcam]

Gaz. said:

Both Merc seats were available, both Ferrari seats were available, both RedBull seats were available, both Renault seats were available. Alonso couldn't displace Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen or Hulkenberg, all four top teams did not want him.

How true.




"Don't let the door hit you on the way out " kinda image.

[A44RON]

Gaz. said:

Kraken said:

Or all the top teams already have one top driver and there's no point in having two as all you do is take points off each other and cause friction. Not to mention the amount of money it costs.

Ricciardo is supposed to be a nice guy who is easy to work with and is a great driver but he couldn't get a drive with Mercedes or Ferrari (the only teams worth bothering to drive for) either.

Both Merc seats were available, both Ferrari seats were available, both RedBull seats were available, both Renault seats were available. Alonso couldn't displace Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen or Hulkenberg, all four top teams did not want him.

Only one Merc seat was available at that time and they chose Bottas, both Ferrari seats weren't available as Alonso just left there, and Redbull have their own junior driver programme that promotes from Toro Rosso. Renault would've had him back, but at the time they weren't offering anything better McLaren-Honda.

So out of all that, only the second driver seat at Mercedes was really available and Mercedes didn't fancy another blow-up like Hamilton/Rosberg...

F1 industry insiders already rate him as one of the all-time greats, so i'm sure Alonso won't lose any sleep over a few forum posters not rating him.

Would I have him in my team? Hell yes, because he always brings results and maximises the car's potential, even with his disruptive nature. His last year at Ferrari he destroyed Raikkonen. The difference was night-and-day.

[LDN]

The F1 circus is small and close knit. It’s true to say that there have been plenty of available seats and that no team has wanted him. People don’t forget what he’s capable of; in a good way in the car - but also, in a bad way out of it. Threatening your team boss to gain sway is unclassy, at the very least. Then crash gate; which even though he was found to not have known about it; didn’t show much grace when he had benefited from the setup. Teams simply don’t want the drama. There’s enough talent now that Alonso, it seems, has become expendable.

[hairyben]

LDN said:

Then crash gate; which even though he was found to not have known about it;

does anyone, except spanky max whose agenda was to use it as a vehicle to bury flav, actually believe that?

And on that point, having your team mate stuff it in the wall to engineer yourself a win, is that not one of the most contemptible things ever seen in F1? I bet even Schumacher would have been impressed by that.