Goodbye Fernando...
Discussion
hairyben said:
does anyone, except spanky max whose agenda was to use it as a vehicle to bury flav, actually believe that?
And on that point, having your team mate stuff it in the wall to engineer yourself a win, is that not one of the most contemptible things ever seen in F1? I bet even Schumacher would have been impressed by that.
Schumacher was many things, but all of his controversial moves were spur of the moment, not premeditated (e.g. Hill in Australia, Villeneuve, parking at Monaco Rascasse during qualifying).And on that point, having your team mate stuff it in the wall to engineer yourself a win, is that not one of the most contemptible things ever seen in F1? I bet even Schumacher would have been impressed by that.
Gaz. said:
Both Merc seats were available, both Ferrari seats were available, both RedBull seats were available, both Renault seats were available. Alonso couldn't displace Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen or Hulkenberg, all four top teams did not want him.
Waste of time going to Red Bull or Renault. Only Mercedes and Ferrari are capable of winning the championship.It's not even close to being as simple as you think it is.
Vaud said:
Schumacher was many things, but all of his controversial moves were spur of the moment, not premeditated (e.g. Hill in Australia, Villeneuve, parking at Monaco Rascasse during qualifying).
there was some level of conscious setup to all those moves but I get where you're going - they were much more his own instinct at the time rather than an operation that needed a pre race planning committee...Kraken said:
Waste of time going to Red Bull or Renault. Only Mercedes and Ferrari are capable of winning the championship.
It's not even close to being as simple as you think it is.
I think he'd have jumped at renault and I gather he did approach, they're a team as has been said "in the ascendancy", and I wouldn't be surprised to see them fighting for RBs best of the rest/possible opportunistic win, but they obviously didn't want him. It's not even close to being as simple as you think it is.
hairyben said:
there was some level of conscious setup to all those moves but I get where you're going - they were much more his own instinct at the time rather than an operation that needed a pre race planning committee...
Exactly. He didn't plan to be unsporting/ram/cheat.Renaults actions were far worse. The power that Flavio had over Piquet was appalling.
HustleRussell said:
I read on here that Cyril Abiteboul, like Horner, had said Alonso was too much trouble.
apart from all that, you'd have to think, that if/when they realize their aspirations to win races again they'll want as little as possible to remind anyone of one of the last race victories they enjoyed.LDN said:
The F1 circus is small and close knit. It’s true to say that there have been plenty of available seats and that no team has wanted him. People don’t forget what he’s capable of; in a good way in the car - but also, in a bad way out of it. Threatening your team boss to gain sway is unclassy, at the very least. Then crash gate; which even though he was found to not have known about it; didn’t show much grace when he had benefited from the setup. Teams simply don’t want the drama. There’s enough talent now that Alonso, it seems, has become expendable.
But that hasn't been the case. The top-three teams have been locked out since 2015, with the exception of Mercedes replacing Rosberg for a more peaceful number two in Bottas. Horner has gone on record numerous times stating Red Bull only promote from Toro Rosso, ie their junior programme and it's worked well for them. The fact is, Alonso partially cost McLaren-Mercedes $100 million in 2007 and they took him back eight years later after he got shoe'd out of Ferrari by Mattiacci - who was promptly replaced by Arrivabene... Mark Hughes sums up what happened at Ferrari:
"Mattiacci – a man used to having control over his employees, not forming partnerships with them or being dictated to by them – suggested, I’d like to see more commitment, not less. By this he meant Alonso extending beyond 2016. Fernando – who has given incredible commitment to a less than fully competitive Ferrari for five years – did not like the suggestion of him being less than fully committed. He reacted angrily. Mattiacci said that if he did not wish to continue either on his current contract or an extension of it, Ferrari would now honour the agreement made by Montezemelo, i.e. Fernando was free to leave, without either side owing the other. Briatore suggested Alonso sign the memorandum of understanding for the release, believing Mattiacci would then back down. He didn’t.
Instead Mattiacci contacted Vettel and told him that if he was ready to sign, so was Ferrari. Red Bull announced at Suzuka that Vettel was leaving and Red Bull’s Christian Horner revealed that “Ferrari had made Sebastian a very generous offer”. It was only at this point that Alonso finally had all the pieces of the jigsaw – and further words were exchanged between him and the team boss."
A44RON said:
But that hasn't been the case. The top-three teams have been locked out since 2015, with the exception of Mercedes replacing Rosberg for a more peaceful number two in Bottas.
Horner has gone on record numerous times stating Red Bull only promote from Toro Rosso, ie their junior programme and it's worked well for them. The fact is, Alonso partially cost McLaren-Mercedes $100 million in 2007 and they took him back eight years later after he got shoe'd out of Ferrari by Mattiacci - who was promptly replaced by Arrivabene... Mark Hughes sums up what happened at Ferrari:
"Mattiacci – a man used to having control over his employees, not forming partnerships with them or being dictated to by them – suggested, I’d like to see more commitment, not less. By this he meant Alonso extending beyond 2016. Fernando – who has given incredible commitment to a less than fully competitive Ferrari for five years – did not like the suggestion of him being less than fully committed. He reacted angrily. Mattiacci said that if he did not wish to continue either on his current contract or an extension of it, Ferrari would now honour the agreement made by Montezemelo, i.e. Fernando was free to leave, without either side owing the other. Briatore suggested Alonso sign the memorandum of understanding for the release, believing Mattiacci would then back down. He didn’t.
Instead Mattiacci contacted Vettel and told him that if he was ready to sign, so was Ferrari. Red Bull announced at Suzuka that Vettel was leaving and Red Bull’s Christian Horner revealed that “Ferrari had made Sebastian a very generous offer”. It was only at this point that Alonso finally had all the pieces of the jigsaw – and further words were exchanged between him and the team boss."
ironic isn't it, I'd have had fred for WDC if he'd been in sebs seat last year, for all his flaws he doesn't tend to crack on track.Horner has gone on record numerous times stating Red Bull only promote from Toro Rosso, ie their junior programme and it's worked well for them. The fact is, Alonso partially cost McLaren-Mercedes $100 million in 2007 and they took him back eight years later after he got shoe'd out of Ferrari by Mattiacci - who was promptly replaced by Arrivabene... Mark Hughes sums up what happened at Ferrari:
"Mattiacci – a man used to having control over his employees, not forming partnerships with them or being dictated to by them – suggested, I’d like to see more commitment, not less. By this he meant Alonso extending beyond 2016. Fernando – who has given incredible commitment to a less than fully competitive Ferrari for five years – did not like the suggestion of him being less than fully committed. He reacted angrily. Mattiacci said that if he did not wish to continue either on his current contract or an extension of it, Ferrari would now honour the agreement made by Montezemelo, i.e. Fernando was free to leave, without either side owing the other. Briatore suggested Alonso sign the memorandum of understanding for the release, believing Mattiacci would then back down. He didn’t.
Instead Mattiacci contacted Vettel and told him that if he was ready to sign, so was Ferrari. Red Bull announced at Suzuka that Vettel was leaving and Red Bull’s Christian Horner revealed that “Ferrari had made Sebastian a very generous offer”. It was only at this point that Alonso finally had all the pieces of the jigsaw – and further words were exchanged between him and the team boss."
hairyben said:
Vaud said:
Schumacher was many things, but all of his controversial moves were spur of the moment, not premeditated (e.g. Hill in Australia, Villeneuve, parking at Monaco Rascasse during qualifying).
there was some level of conscious setup to all those moves but I get where you're going - they were much more his own instinct at the time rather than an operation that needed a pre race planning committee...jsf said:
We know absolutely.
If he didn't, he was alone in the paddock, let alone the grid.His fuel stops were shorter than everyone else's. Didn't he know? It was mentioned a few times but ignored by the power that was until, just to make it obvious enough even for the boss, they set alight to a part of Germany.
The only thing is doubt, and then only partially, is whether every driver on the grid would have done the same. I have my beliefs there, but even if I was right, it doesn't make using them right as well.
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