Goodbye Fernando...
Discussion
E34-3.2 said:
Interesting but I believe that Rosberg will have Won more championship against Alonso than Hamilton. The reason is that Rosberg was simply much better at qualifying than Alonso. His speed over one lap was very very close to Hamilton and that what made him a thought opponent in an area of F1 where the cars are difficult to overtake due to the aero. Another thing is that Mercedes will not have given Alonso number 1 statue in the team, which would have made life very hard for his ego. We saw it with Schumacher no number 1 statue at Mercedes against Rosberg, where did Schumacher finished against Rosberg? He got beaten twice...
And Alonso was able to beat Schumacher when he was in his prime and in the Ferrari which is a completely different story.Schumacher had been away from F1 for too long and appeared back in a car that was not exactly good.
Had he been driving the 2014 Mercedes then thing IMO would have been different and he would have added to his wins.
Alonso would have beaten Rosberg hands down.
If Alonso had been in the Mercedes from 2014 to 2018 he would have at least 6 Championships in the bag but we will never know.
But the fact of the matter is how could Alonso win a Championship in the last 9 years?
Brawn cleared up in 2009 and since 2010 unless you were in a Red Bull or a Mercedes no one had a chance.
This is what many forget.
Yes, you are all stating how good Hamilton is in this current era. And you are correct.
But the reason is that he is the clear number one at Mercedes and he doesn't have a teammate who will now bother him.
When Hamilton has someone in the other car who does annoy him "Rosberg" he has real issues controlling himself.
If the Mercedes was suddenly very poor that old Hamilton would appear again.
Vaud said:
Or Honda were unintentionally misleading Ron... remember they were single cylinder dyno figures, extrapolated, IIRC.
This.It's a shame that the McLaren/Honda partnership didn't work out.
F1 really needs Renault or Honda to catch up with the main two.
Hate the fact that Mercedes and Ferrari have such an advantage but obviously they have just done a much better job.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
And Alonso was able to beat Schumacher when he was in his prime and in the Ferrari which is a completely different story.
Schumacher had been away from F1 for too long and appeared back in a car that was not exactly good.
Had he been driving the 2014 Mercedes then thing IMO would have been different and he would have added to his wins.
Alonso would have beaten Rosberg hands down.
If Alonso had been in the Mercedes from 2014 to 2018 he would have at least 6 Championships in the bag but we will never know.
But the fact of the matter is how could Alonso win a Championship in the last 9 years?
Brawn cleared up in 2009 and since 2010 unless you were in a Red Bull or a Mercedes no one had a chance.
This is what many forget.
Yes, you are all stating how good Hamilton is in this current era. And you are correct.
But the reason is that he is the clear number one at Mercedes and he doesn't have a teammate who will now bother him.
When Hamilton has someone in the other car who does annoy him "Rosberg" he has real issues controlling himself.
If the Mercedes was suddenly very poor that old Hamilton would appear again.
I think that you are highlighting something very interesting about how people talk about when speaking of Alonso on here. People always use the terms "if" , "could" or "would" . Schumacher had been away from F1 for too long and appeared back in a car that was not exactly good.
Had he been driving the 2014 Mercedes then thing IMO would have been different and he would have added to his wins.
Alonso would have beaten Rosberg hands down.
If Alonso had been in the Mercedes from 2014 to 2018 he would have at least 6 Championships in the bag but we will never know.
But the fact of the matter is how could Alonso win a Championship in the last 9 years?
Brawn cleared up in 2009 and since 2010 unless you were in a Red Bull or a Mercedes no one had a chance.
This is what many forget.
Yes, you are all stating how good Hamilton is in this current era. And you are correct.
But the reason is that he is the clear number one at Mercedes and he doesn't have a teammate who will now bother him.
When Hamilton has someone in the other car who does annoy him "Rosberg" he has real issues controlling himself.
If the Mercedes was suddenly very poor that old Hamilton would appear again.
When you talk about a great in sport, you just need to talk of what he achieved and not what he "could" have achieved.
I use to be a competitive athlete years ago and I remember talking to a legend of my sport and one thing who stuck in to my head was that he told me nowadays, athletes and journalists talk a lot about what an athlete "could" achieve and not about what he has achieved. Big difference.
E34-3.2 said:
I think that you are highlighting something very interesting about how people talk about when speaking of Alonso on here. People always use the terms "if" , "could" or "would" .
When you talk about a great in sport, you just need to talk of what he achieved and not what he "could" have achieved.
I use to be a competitive athlete years ago and I remember talking to a legend of my sport and one thing who stuck in to my head was that he told me nowadays, athletes and journalists talk a lot about what an athlete "could" achieve and not about what he has achieved. Big difference.
There is a huge difference between athletics and F1.When you talk about a great in sport, you just need to talk of what he achieved and not what he "could" have achieved.
I use to be a competitive athlete years ago and I remember talking to a legend of my sport and one thing who stuck in to my head was that he told me nowadays, athletes and journalists talk a lot about what an athlete "could" achieve and not about what he has achieved. Big difference.
One can make a difference with talent only while an F1 driver needs talent and a decent car.
The only reason the McLaren is scoring good points is down to one man's talent.
But he will never win a race unless all the top teams have huge issues which just doesn't happen now.
I am sure if Hamilton was not in the Mercedes in 2014 to present day he would be in the exact same situation as Alonso.
As mentioned above unless you were in a Brawn 2009, Red Bull 2010 - 2013 or a Mercedes 2014 - 2017 there is no chance.
Autosport
Think this is us all speaking about Alonso vs Hamilton.
Obviously, I am with check shirt man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfFb4I30J3s&t=...
Think this is us all speaking about Alonso vs Hamilton.
Obviously, I am with check shirt man
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfFb4I30J3s&t=...
ELUSIVEJIM said:
E34-3.2 said:
I think that you are highlighting something very interesting about how people talk about when speaking of Alonso on here. People always use the terms "if" , "could" or "would" .
When you talk about a great in sport, you just need to talk of what he achieved and not what he "could" have achieved.
I use to be a competitive athlete years ago and I remember talking to a legend of my sport and one thing who stuck in to my head was that he told me nowadays, athletes and journalists talk a lot about what an athlete "could" achieve and not about what he has achieved. Big difference.
There is a huge difference between athletics and F1.When you talk about a great in sport, you just need to talk of what he achieved and not what he "could" have achieved.
I use to be a competitive athlete years ago and I remember talking to a legend of my sport and one thing who stuck in to my head was that he told me nowadays, athletes and journalists talk a lot about what an athlete "could" achieve and not about what he has achieved. Big difference.
One can make a difference with talent only while an F1 driver needs talent and a decent car.
The only reason the McLaren is scoring good points is down to one man's talent.
But he will never win a race unless all the top teams have huge issues which just doesn't happen now.
I am sure if Hamilton was not in the Mercedes in 2014 to present day he would be in the exact same situation as Alonso.
As mentioned above unless you were in a Brawn 2009, Red Bull 2010 - 2013 or a Mercedes 2014 - 2017 there is no chance.
Hamilton “was” in the Mercedes.
Rest is history
Gaz. said:
Alonso's fans keep dodging this, but why hasn't Alonso unseated Hamilton?
Because both are very equal.Vettel, however, would have been my pick for being unseated by Alonso.
Alonso decision to leave Ferrari must have been his worst mistake.
Yes, the Ferrari was not good but you just know money would be thrown at it.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Because both are very equal.
Vettel, however, would have been my pick for being unseated by Alonso.
Alonso decision to leave Ferrari must have been his worst mistake.
Yes, the Ferrari was not good but you just know money would be thrown at it.
Don’t agree, he was there 5 years and didn’t win anything. If he had stayed he would have been there about 7 years before they were competitive again. Vettel, however, would have been my pick for being unseated by Alonso.
Alonso decision to leave Ferrari must have been his worst mistake.
Yes, the Ferrari was not good but you just know money would be thrown at it.
Hamsterdam said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Because both are very equal.
Vettel, however, would have been my pick for being unseated by Alonso.
Alonso decision to leave Ferrari must have been his worst mistake.
Yes, the Ferrari was not good but you just know money would be thrown at it.
Don’t agree, he was there 5 years and didn’t win anything. If he had stayed he would have been there about 7 years before they were competitive again. Vettel, however, would have been my pick for being unseated by Alonso.
Alonso decision to leave Ferrari must have been his worst mistake.
Yes, the Ferrari was not good but you just know money would be thrown at it.
Edited by TheLimla on Thursday 20th September 14:54
TheLimla said:
In hindsight his decision not to join Red Bull in 2008 seems his worst decision, but the decision to leave Ferrari was also bad, just as his decision to kick up a stink at Mclaren in 2007 was. If only he had played it cool and just got on with the job of battling his teammate rather than go all political/blackmail then things would have been very different and he would have the legacy that Vettel and Hamilton both have now.
Don’t think any driver would have picked Red Bull over Ferrari. Edited by TheLimla on Thursday 20th September 14:54
Ferrari haven’t won any Championships since he left either
Vaud said:
Exige77 said:
Alonso is a fine driver but not one of the greats.
The Alonso fanatics can bleat on all they like but the record books will show a 2 time WDC (some concerns about the WDC Renault) and that no team wants him now even though he’s still apparently the best driver on the grid.
So why is Alonso rated by the TPs consistently as one of the top 2 every year (Autosport survey).The Alonso fanatics can bleat on all they like but the record books will show a 2 time WDC (some concerns about the WDC Renault) and that no team wants him now even though he’s still apparently the best driver on the grid.
He is one of the greats. He is like many greats, deeply flawed.
Hamsterdam said:
Don’t think any driver would have picked Red Bull over Ferrari.
Ferrari haven’t won any Championships since he left either
Crazy to think it was Kimi in 2007 who won the last Championship for Ferrari.Ferrari haven’t won any Championships since he left either
Massa was very close.
It's a shame his terrible injury cost him the chance of fighting for another Championship as he was impressive in 2008.
Just never the same after the accident.
London424 said:
Talk is cheap. Alonso has been available for every year for about the past 5 years and yet none of them have wanted him even though all have changed their drivers in that time.
Perhaps because the top two teams have Vettel and Hamilton.Whatever you say about Alonso there is no way either of the above would allow him to race in the same team.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Perhaps because the top two teams have Vettel and Hamilton.
Whatever you say about Alonso there is no way either of the above would allow him to race in the same team.
It's not about Alonso per se. Both have strategies of not having too very high performing drivers. Whatever you say about Alonso there is no way either of the above would allow him to race in the same team.
Mercedes said never, ever again after Hamilton-Rosberg. It was too internally divisive, drained too much management time and energy.
Vaud said:
It's not about Alonso per se. Both have strategies of not having too very high performing drivers.
Mercedes said never, ever again after Hamilton-Rosberg. It was too internally divisive, drained too much management time and energy.
Exactly.Mercedes said never, ever again after Hamilton-Rosberg. It was too internally divisive, drained too much management time and energy.
But Ferrari has just moved the goal posts for 2019.
Could just help Hamilton that little bit more.
I am sure many would agree that it would have been special to have Alonso in a car that would have given him a fighting chance against the Mercedes and Ferrari drivers.
Whatever Alonso's past it would have been a great watch.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 20th September 15:25
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Exactly.
But Ferrari has just moved the goal posts for 2019.
Could just help Hamilton that little bit more.
I am sure many would agree that it would have been special to have Alonso in a car that would have given him a fighting chance against the Mercedes and Ferrari drivers.
Whatever Alonso's past it would have been a great watch.
I think Vettel has cost himself and Ferrari the titles this year. But Ferrari has just moved the goal posts for 2019.
Could just help Hamilton that little bit more.
I am sure many would agree that it would have been special to have Alonso in a car that would have given him a fighting chance against the Mercedes and Ferrari drivers.
Whatever Alonso's past it would have been a great watch.
Edited by ELUSIVEJIM on Thursday 20th September 15:25
Think next year will be even worse for him when he’s under even more pressure.
Hamsterdam said:
I think Vettel has cost himself and Ferrari the titles this year.
Think next year will be even worse for him when he’s under even more pressure.
Vettel has chocked twice now. 2017 and 2018.Think next year will be even worse for him when he’s under even more pressure.
I can't see Hamilton making many mistakes in the run in.
Yes, the Mercedes could break down but it would need to happen twice to give Vettel a chance.
But if anyone is going to make a mistake I would put my money on Vettel.
This thread is turning comical with Rosberg being mentioned on par to Alonso because he beat a past-it 42-year-old Schumacher who came back after a few years out of F1. No way.
There are clearly a few Alonso haters on here - who are unsurprisingly Team Lewis and have it in for the Spaniard - and that's clouding their vision to look at Alonso's ability objectively as an F1 driver. Frankly their point is moot. If every F1 pundit, established journalist, driver on the grid and ex-F1 drivers already regard Alonso as 'Great' (which he is) tough. I know it hurts the Alonso haters to admit this, but they need to look at the facts and suck it up. It stinks of British bias and I'm British (my favourite drivers are Mansell, Hamilton and Button), but I appreciate excellence when I see it.
Again, point out one season in his career where Alonso did not deliver results...
As Mark Hughes rightly mentioned in his article on the man, numbers alone don't tell the full story of a driver's legacy - and he too rates Alonso as an F1 Legend. Much like in boxing, Gennady Golovkin and Manny Pacquiao have 'stained records' and their numbers don't tell the true picture of how great they are.
To quote Martin Brundle when asked who the best driver on the grid is: "Fernando Alonso."
To quote Jenson Button when asked who his toughest teammate was: "Fernando Alonso."
But according to a select few forum posters he's not a 'Great'. Haters will always hate.
There are clearly a few Alonso haters on here - who are unsurprisingly Team Lewis and have it in for the Spaniard - and that's clouding their vision to look at Alonso's ability objectively as an F1 driver. Frankly their point is moot. If every F1 pundit, established journalist, driver on the grid and ex-F1 drivers already regard Alonso as 'Great' (which he is) tough. I know it hurts the Alonso haters to admit this, but they need to look at the facts and suck it up. It stinks of British bias and I'm British (my favourite drivers are Mansell, Hamilton and Button), but I appreciate excellence when I see it.
Again, point out one season in his career where Alonso did not deliver results...
As Mark Hughes rightly mentioned in his article on the man, numbers alone don't tell the full story of a driver's legacy - and he too rates Alonso as an F1 Legend. Much like in boxing, Gennady Golovkin and Manny Pacquiao have 'stained records' and their numbers don't tell the true picture of how great they are.
To quote Martin Brundle when asked who the best driver on the grid is: "Fernando Alonso."
To quote Jenson Button when asked who his toughest teammate was: "Fernando Alonso."
But according to a select few forum posters he's not a 'Great'. Haters will always hate.
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