Discussion
GPS data analysis – a Ferrari and Red Bull Championship?
Ferrari are not only grabbing the headlines for fastest laps, but they also are proving devastatingly quick during race simulations according to Germany’s excellent publication, Auto Motor und Sport.
To quote: “If one can believe the GPS, then Ferrari has it’s nose clearly in front after the first two test days. According to these projections, Mercedes is still ahead of Red Bull. But there was a reason for that. The new Red Bull RB15 still lacked important parts.”
This is indeed true, Red Bull are missing some crucial aero pieces still, and this has been the reason for numerous spins from their drivers, especially Pierre Gasly. It had also been rumoured that the new Honda engine has been causing problems with vibrations, upsetting the balance of the car. Team principle Christian Horner has been quick to debunk that rumour however. TJ13 understands that the vibrations are indeed a thing, and something the team are trying to solve. More than two sources have revealed this to be the case.
Horner on the other hand is putting the blame firmly in an unresolved aero specification the team were having to run during the first two days.
“We drove the first two days with a Montreal rear wing. That’s why it was difficult to balance the car” says Horner.
By day 3, the Barcelona spec rear wing finally turned up, so AMuS decided to publish their GPS analysis based on the runs made today. Again, we see Ferrari top, Mercedes and Red Bull close together.
According to Red Bull’s analyses, at the moment it’s more like a duel between Ferrari and Red Bull than between Ferrari and Mercedes. “We see Mercedes behind us right now.” claims Horner.
“We are right on schedule. The car works as we calculated in advance. And the Honda engine is a rocket.”
“Pierre Gasly told us that the new Honda engine works much better than last year’s one. The power is available over a wider rev band. And the Max, he’s just raving. It feels a lot more power.”
“In addition, the engine responds incredibly softly and doesn’t have these dropouts like the Renault even when downshifting. This makes the rear much more stable when it turns into curves and downshifts at the same time.”
“Before our film day at Silverstone there were already four finished engines in the factory.
“We’ve never had that before [from Renault]. We drove a car at Silverstone last Wednesday and the second one on our VTT test bench.” – This is the test stand on which the entire car does virtual laps.
“We’ll stick to our [front] wing type because it works best for us. Of course we looked at the Ferrari concept, but our simulations showed that our wing has more potential,” Horner reveals.
“We haven’t started into a test so smoothly in ages.” concludes the team boss.
So clearly the honeymoon period is still in full swing.
Should we pay attention to AMuS’s GPS data? Well perhaps we should. Last year saw the publication claim, using the same data model, that Mercedes were still quicker than Ferrari despite slow lap charts and hard tyres. Yes Ferrari won the first race in Melbourne, but this was not down to their pace alone.
Had Bottas not messed his qualifying run up, the Silver Arrows would’ve most certainly locked out the front row, and clearly Ferrari were struggling for balance and outright qualifying pace on the Saturday.
Only after some peculiar Virtual Safety Car incidents, did we see Vettel’s Ferrari leap into the lead, going on to win the race.
Further, the same GPS data last year predicted that the Haas team were surprisingly fast in simulation, again this proved to be the case in Melbourne. Had the team not destroyed their chances with botched pitstops, the new American team would’ve surely been close to the podium.
Next week’s final test will be indeed very interesting and we’ll revisit the GPS model for our final conclusions.
https://thejudge13.com/2019/02/21/data-analysis-fe...
Ferrari are not only grabbing the headlines for fastest laps, but they also are proving devastatingly quick during race simulations according to Germany’s excellent publication, Auto Motor und Sport.
To quote: “If one can believe the GPS, then Ferrari has it’s nose clearly in front after the first two test days. According to these projections, Mercedes is still ahead of Red Bull. But there was a reason for that. The new Red Bull RB15 still lacked important parts.”
This is indeed true, Red Bull are missing some crucial aero pieces still, and this has been the reason for numerous spins from their drivers, especially Pierre Gasly. It had also been rumoured that the new Honda engine has been causing problems with vibrations, upsetting the balance of the car. Team principle Christian Horner has been quick to debunk that rumour however. TJ13 understands that the vibrations are indeed a thing, and something the team are trying to solve. More than two sources have revealed this to be the case.
Horner on the other hand is putting the blame firmly in an unresolved aero specification the team were having to run during the first two days.
“We drove the first two days with a Montreal rear wing. That’s why it was difficult to balance the car” says Horner.
By day 3, the Barcelona spec rear wing finally turned up, so AMuS decided to publish their GPS analysis based on the runs made today. Again, we see Ferrari top, Mercedes and Red Bull close together.
According to Red Bull’s analyses, at the moment it’s more like a duel between Ferrari and Red Bull than between Ferrari and Mercedes. “We see Mercedes behind us right now.” claims Horner.
“We are right on schedule. The car works as we calculated in advance. And the Honda engine is a rocket.”
“Pierre Gasly told us that the new Honda engine works much better than last year’s one. The power is available over a wider rev band. And the Max, he’s just raving. It feels a lot more power.”
“In addition, the engine responds incredibly softly and doesn’t have these dropouts like the Renault even when downshifting. This makes the rear much more stable when it turns into curves and downshifts at the same time.”
“Before our film day at Silverstone there were already four finished engines in the factory.
“We’ve never had that before [from Renault]. We drove a car at Silverstone last Wednesday and the second one on our VTT test bench.” – This is the test stand on which the entire car does virtual laps.
“We’ll stick to our [front] wing type because it works best for us. Of course we looked at the Ferrari concept, but our simulations showed that our wing has more potential,” Horner reveals.
“We haven’t started into a test so smoothly in ages.” concludes the team boss.
So clearly the honeymoon period is still in full swing.
Should we pay attention to AMuS’s GPS data? Well perhaps we should. Last year saw the publication claim, using the same data model, that Mercedes were still quicker than Ferrari despite slow lap charts and hard tyres. Yes Ferrari won the first race in Melbourne, but this was not down to their pace alone.
Had Bottas not messed his qualifying run up, the Silver Arrows would’ve most certainly locked out the front row, and clearly Ferrari were struggling for balance and outright qualifying pace on the Saturday.
Only after some peculiar Virtual Safety Car incidents, did we see Vettel’s Ferrari leap into the lead, going on to win the race.
Further, the same GPS data last year predicted that the Haas team were surprisingly fast in simulation, again this proved to be the case in Melbourne. Had the team not destroyed their chances with botched pitstops, the new American team would’ve surely been close to the podium.
Next week’s final test will be indeed very interesting and we’ll revisit the GPS model for our final conclusions.
https://thejudge13.com/2019/02/21/data-analysis-fe...
Marko: "Red Bull is only two tenths behind Ferrari"
11:24 - Helmut Marko is still optimistic about the chances of Red Bull Racing in 2019. The Austrian top advisor says he can confirm his positive feelings with figures this time.
"We are still two tenths of a second compared to Ferrari, and Mercedes is already behind us", says Marko confidently against Car, Motor and Sport. The advisor of the energy-energy giant agrees with the last point to the statements of team boss Christian Horner, who had already stated that Red Bull leaves the Silver Arrows behind. But Marko would obviously not be Marko if he dares to go one step further in his comments. "Those two tenths must have disappeared in Melbourne at the latest", he alludes to a good overture.
Red Bull engineers attack the Austrian by stating that this rather small gap with the chassis has to be compensated. For example, they are already predicting an update during the second test week, with which the hole with Ferrari has already largely been undone. In other words, where the chassis now has to give the last push, all those involved again endorse that the greatest gain is on the motor plane.
Where Marko, based on his conversations with the drivers, talks about 'noticeably more power', the engineers of the Milton Keynes formation mainly see an improvement across the board compared to the predecessor Renault. "The engine is stronger and more reliable, but that is not the only thing, and Honda is approaching the whole thing with a whole new zeal and way of working.This dedication makes us even more optimistic", it sounds on the eve of a new season - definitely not for the first time - remarkably hopeful about the chances of Max Verstappen and Pierre Gasly.
https://www.gpupdate.net/nl/f1-nieuws/370206/marko...
11:24 - Helmut Marko is still optimistic about the chances of Red Bull Racing in 2019. The Austrian top advisor says he can confirm his positive feelings with figures this time.
"We are still two tenths of a second compared to Ferrari, and Mercedes is already behind us", says Marko confidently against Car, Motor and Sport. The advisor of the energy-energy giant agrees with the last point to the statements of team boss Christian Horner, who had already stated that Red Bull leaves the Silver Arrows behind. But Marko would obviously not be Marko if he dares to go one step further in his comments. "Those two tenths must have disappeared in Melbourne at the latest", he alludes to a good overture.
Red Bull engineers attack the Austrian by stating that this rather small gap with the chassis has to be compensated. For example, they are already predicting an update during the second test week, with which the hole with Ferrari has already largely been undone. In other words, where the chassis now has to give the last push, all those involved again endorse that the greatest gain is on the motor plane.
Where Marko, based on his conversations with the drivers, talks about 'noticeably more power', the engineers of the Milton Keynes formation mainly see an improvement across the board compared to the predecessor Renault. "The engine is stronger and more reliable, but that is not the only thing, and Honda is approaching the whole thing with a whole new zeal and way of working.This dedication makes us even more optimistic", it sounds on the eve of a new season - definitely not for the first time - remarkably hopeful about the chances of Max Verstappen and Pierre Gasly.
https://www.gpupdate.net/nl/f1-nieuws/370206/marko...
DS240 said:
Composite Guru said:
Fortitude said:
Spoke to a Red Bull employee yesterday evening.
The Honda engine has gone through some thorough testing.
They are cautiously optimistic at the factory...
I think today’s race proved that. Honda haters are not going to be happy. The Honda engine has gone through some thorough testing.
They are cautiously optimistic at the factory...
Fundoreen said:
Sky seemed a bit too sleepy to knowledge the gravity of what was achieved with the new engine supplier.
Sky are stuck in 'Ferrari vs Mercedes' mode. They have failed to give enough attention to the fact that Mercedes walked it today, even with Hamilton's floor damage and the fact that Ferrari were beaten by Red Bull, withe relative ease. If Max hadn't had that off, he really could have taken Lewis too.Based on this one race, the outlook has shifted massively, it's looking to be more of a Mercedes vs Red Bull season now. Yet the Sky rhetoric remains the same.
I think the big shock might be when we get to a Red Bull friendly track. Their overall advantage then could be massive.
TheDeuce said:
Fundoreen said:
Sky seemed a bit too sleepy to knowledge the gravity of what was achieved with the new engine supplier.
Sky are stuck in 'Ferrari vs Mercedes' mode. They have failed to give enough attention to the fact that Mercedes walked it today, even with Hamilton's floor damage and the fact that AFerrari was beaten by A Red Bull, with relative ease. If Max hadn't had that off, he really could have taken Lewis too.Based on this one race, the outlook has shifted massively, it's looking to be more of a Mercedes vs Red Bull season now. Yet the Sky rhetoric remains the same.
I think the big shock might be when we get to a Red Bull friendly track. Their overall advantage then could be massive.
MissChief said:
TheDeuce said:
Fundoreen said:
Sky seemed a bit too sleepy to knowledge the gravity of what was achieved with the new engine supplier.
Sky are stuck in 'Ferrari vs Mercedes' mode. They have failed to give enough attention to the fact that Mercedes walked it today, even with Hamilton's floor damage and the fact that AFerrari was beaten by A Red Bull, with relative ease. If Max hadn't had that off, he really could have taken Lewis too.Based on this one race, the outlook has shifted massively, it's looking to be more of a Mercedes vs Red Bull season now. Yet the Sky rhetoric remains the same.
I think the big shock might be when we get to a Red Bull friendly track. Their overall advantage then could be massive.
This is excellent, a free copywriter
Proof if needed that quality attracts talent ghost83 said:
Can’t believe how Honda seemed to have turned it around
Bet McLaren are fuming!
Time to get rid of Zak Brown in my opinion
Bet McLaren are fuming!
Time to get rid of Zak Brown in my opinion
Composite Guru said:
Fortitude said:
Spoke to a Red Bull employee yesterday evening.
The Honda engine has gone through some thorough testing.
They are cautiously optimistic at the factory...
I think today’s race proved that. Honda haters are not going to be happy. The Honda engine has gone through some thorough testing.
They are cautiously optimistic at the factory...
“Honda have been testing that engine for TWO years on the dynos…”
He grinned and smiled and didn’t need to say anything more! I thought best to just post here, that the Honda engine has gone through some thorough testing…
Personally I am pleased for both Red Bull and Honda, as it looks like, it will be potentially a successful season for them.
MissChief said:
TheDeuce said:
Fundoreen said:
Sky seemed a bit too sleepy to knowledge the gravity of what was achieved with the new engine supplier.
Sky are stuck in 'Ferrari vs Mercedes' mode. They have failed to give enough attention to the fact that Mercedes walked it today, even with Hamilton's floor damage and the fact that AFerrari was beaten by A Red Bull, with relative ease. If Max hadn't had that off, he really could have taken Lewis too.Based on this one race, the outlook has shifted massively, it's looking to be more of a Mercedes vs Red Bull season now. Yet the Sky rhetoric remains the same.
I think the big shock might be when we get to a Red Bull friendly track. Their overall advantage then could be massive.
It was certainly interesting to see Redbull clearly faster than Ferrari in race trim but since we don't know why Ferrari were so slow I'm not sure it means much in the long run. I think it's impossible to judge them relative to Mercedes because Hamilton's car was broken and on knackered tyres and Bottas wasn't exactly pushing towards the end except for the one flying lap to get the extra point.
It'll be interesting to see what the relative performances of the top three are at the next race. Lets not the other two teams can peg Mercedes back to make it a genuine three-way fight at the front.
It'll be interesting to see what the relative performances of the top three are at the next race. Lets not the other two teams can peg Mercedes back to make it a genuine three-way fight at the front.
Edited by kambites on Monday 18th March 09:15
kambites said:
It was certainly interesting to see Redbull clearly faster than Ferrari in race trim but since we don't know why Ferrari were so slow I'm not sure it means much in the long run. I think it's impossible to judge them relative to Mercedes because Hamilton's car was broken and on knackered tyres and Bottas wasn't exactly pushing towards the end except for the one flying lap to get the extra point.
It'll be interesting to see what the relative performances of the top three are at the next race. Lets not the other two teams can peg Mercedes back to make it a genuine three-way fight at the front.
Some theory floating about on Reddit that Ferrari's problem is power unit based. Talks of them running it in a safe mode. Though their proof only extends to "unexplained" RPM drops on straights and a few drivers complaining of not having enough charge and the kinetic element not working as expected (from teams with Ferrari engines, not just Ferrari). It'll be interesting to see what the relative performances of the top three are at the next race. Lets not the other two teams can peg Mercedes back to make it a genuine three-way fight at the front.
Edited by kambites on Monday 18th March 09:15
Might have some legs, but we'll never know... no one said anything yet. Ferrari might keep schtum about something like that, but their customers might have let something slip I would have thought.
kambites said:
It was certainly interesting to see Redbull clearly faster than Ferrari in race trim but since we don't know why Ferrari were so slow I'm not sure it means much in the long run. I think it's impossible to judge them relative to Mercedes because Hamilton's car was broken and on knackered tyres and Bottas wasn't exactly pushing towards the end except for the one flying lap to get the extra point.
It'll be interesting to see what the relative performances of the top three are at the next race. Lets not the other two teams can peg Mercedes back to make it a genuine three-way fight at the front.
I'd love a three way battle, but I think there are strong signs Mercedes are well ahead. As you say, bottas wasn't pushing - yet ended a full minute ahead of both Ferrari and Red Bull. I don't expect either of those teams to find a second per lap, that's a big ask. It'll be interesting to see what the relative performances of the top three are at the next race. Lets not the other two teams can peg Mercedes back to make it a genuine three-way fight at the front.
Edited by kambites on Monday 18th March 09:15
On a positive note, Red Bull will still be there, and they are competitive enough to hassle Ferrari, even if Ferrari do make improvements.
I see this season becoming Ferrari Vs Red Bull, with Mercedes generally out in front. If I'm right, Ferrari and Red Bull battling each other will if anything take even more pressure off Mercedes...
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff