Red Bull

[Piginapoke]

//j17 said:

Trouble is those Adrian Newey innovations usually involve very tight engine packaging, a legacy he left at Mclaren and I think one of the main reasons we saw fewer Honda engine failures in the Torro Rosso this year than we did in the two years in the Mclarens.

Newey left in 2012. He has zero influence on recent McLarens, but Mclaren must wish he still does!

[Fortitude]

Piginapoke said:

//j17 said:

Trouble is those Adrian Newey innovations usually involve very tight engine packaging, a legacy he left at Mclaren and I think one of the main reasons we saw fewer Honda engine failures in the Torro Rosso this year than we did in the two years in the Mclarens.

Newey left in 2012. He has zero influence on recent McLarens, but Mclaren must wish he still does!

MOST PROBABLY, the Williams F1 team also wish, that Adrian was still in their team...

VERY interesting article here about Adrian Newey;

Top 10: Adrian Newey’s best racing car designs – ranked!
By: Charles Bradley
Dec 15, 2018, 4:52 PM

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/top-10-adrian-n...

[Piginapoke]

Fortitude said:

Piginapoke said:

//j17 said:

Trouble is those Adrian Newey innovations usually involve very tight engine packaging, a legacy he left at Mclaren and I think one of the main reasons we saw fewer Honda engine failures in the Torro Rosso this year than we did in the two years in the Mclarens.

Newey left in 2012. He has zero influence on recent McLarens, but Mclaren must wish he still does!

MOST PROBABLY, the Williams F1 team also wish, that Adrian was still in their team...

VERY interesting article here about Adrian Newey;

Top 10: Adrian Newey’s best racing car designs – ranked!
By: Charles Bradley
Dec 15, 2018, 4:52 PM

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/top-10-adrian-n...

A great read, thanks.

March 881 and FW14B for me top the charts.

[isaldiri]

Piginapoke said:

Newey left in 2012. He has zero influence on recent McLarens, but Mclaren must wish he still does!

You might find that Newey left Mclaren at the end of 2005....

[speedysoprano]

It is worth remembering that Red Bull are having a Honda engine next year because they had a spat with Renault and nobody else would give them an engine. They might still make a good fist of it, in fact they probably will do all right because they've got resources and good personnel. But still... It's not some great groundbreaking decision from RBR, it's them being painted into a corner and making the best of it.

[Fortitude]

Piginapoke said:

A great read, thanks.

March 881 and FW14B for me top the charts.

It was good, just found this as well;

Adrian Newey Inspired Collection LONDON CLASSIC CAR SHOW 2015 ExCel Centre EXHIBITION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40W8jZPka8o

[PaoloMey]

Fortitude said:

It was good, just found this as well;

Adrian Newey Inspired Collection LONDON CLASSIC CAR SHOW 2015 ExCel Centre EXHIBITION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40W8jZPka8o

The oranges car for me.)
3 years old the movie.

[Fortitude]

Max Verstappen is MOST probably trying to ‘wind up’ Lewis Hamilton, BUT IS THERE a confidence about the coming season for Red Bull, with him being in a ‘combatitive mood’? …Or is it a case of Max being Max?


Verstappen: Hamilton only better because of Mercedes
Sunday, 23 december 2018, 10:18 , by Matthew Scott

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/3784/verstappen...


VERSTAPPEN: MERCEDES RESPONSIBLE FOR HAMILTON GLORY
Published on 23 Dec 2018 14:27

https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/244020/verstapp...


Verstappen thinks anyone could win in Hamilton’s car
2018-12-23

https://www.sport24.co.za/Motorsport/verstappen-th...


It’s the car – not the driver: Verstappen
• by: Sri Hari
• December 25, 2018

https://grandpx.news/its-the-car-not-the-driver-ve...

[FourWheelDrift]

I'm not sure what's going to be smoking more next year, his car or his head.

[rdjohn]

I do not believe that Max will be WDC until Lewis retires.

1. He won’t quite have the car under him.
2. He is his own worst enemy, he still thinks like a Karter, not a WDC.

But, when the time is right, he will be a very worthy Champion.

[Fortitude]

speedysoprano said:

It is worth remembering that Red Bull are having a Honda engine next year because they had a spat with Renault and nobody else would give them an engine. They might still make a good fist of it, in fact they probably will do all right because they've got resources and good personnel. But still... It's not some great groundbreaking decision from RBR, it's them being painted into a corner and making the best of it.

Seems like Franz Tost, the boss at Toro Rosso is certainly making the best of it (Honda power)...

Honda 'will completely close the gap' in 2019 - Tost

Honda "will completely close the gap" to top engine manufacturers Mercedes and Ferrari in 2019.

That is the prediction of Franz Tost, the boss at Toro Rosso.

The junior Red Bull team has been powered by works Honda engines for a full year now, in preparation for the senior team to join the Honda project for 2019.

"Since we will use the same engine, there are many other synergies," Tost told Speed Week.

"Toro Rosso will use the Red Bull Racing gearbox, full rear suspension and front suspension elements and other parts," he revealed.

"We will save resources and expect an increase in performance."

The rhetoric from the entire Red Bull camp is extremely positive about the switch to works Honda power, after years of complaining about customer Renault engines.

"In terms of performance, Honda has narrowed the gap to Mercedes and Ferrari," Tost said.

"If no serious problems arise in the next stages of development, Honda will completely close the gap during the 2019 season."

Ferrari, Force India and Renault have already announced mid-February launch dates for their respective 2019 cars -- just days before winter testing begins in Barcelona.

Tost said of Toro Rosso's 2019 car: "The rollout is planned for week 7 (mid-February). We are current discussing various scenarios for the presentation."


https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/mercedes/ne...

[Dermot O'Logical]

PaoloMey said:

Fortitude said:

It was good, just found this as well;

Adrian Newey Inspired Collection LONDON CLASSIC CAR SHOW 2015 ExCel Centre EXHIBITION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40W8jZPka8o

The oranges car for me.)
3 years old the movie.

The commentary could have been more "informed". And "interesting".

[Mr. White]

speedysoprano said:

It is worth remembering that Red Bull are having a Honda engine next year because they had a spat with Renault and nobody else would give them an engine. They might still make a good fist of it, in fact they probably will do all right because they've got resources and good personnel. But still... It's not some great groundbreaking decision from RBR, it's them being painted into a corner and making the best of it.

Indeed, they're in this position because they act in such an entitled and odorous manner when they aren't winning.

Surely, however, they're not stupid enough to treat Honda (their last resort) the same way if it doesn't quite go to plan next season...

[Kraken]

Fortitude said:

Max Verstappen is MOST probably trying to ‘wind up’ Lewis Hamilton, BUT IS THERE a confidence about the coming season for Red Bull, with him being in a ‘combatitive mood’? …Or is it a case of Max being Max?

To be fair that's all the same interview spun over and over. It's not as though he's be going around saying it constantly to anyone who would listen and he's not wrong at the end of the day. The car has been more important than the driver in F1 for decades.

[thetrickcyclist]

FourWheelDrift said:

I'm not sure what's going to be smoking more next year, his car or his head.

[Fortitude]

speedysoprano said:

It is worth remembering that Red Bull are having a Honda engine next year because they had a spat with Renault and nobody else would give them an engine. They might still make a good fist of it, in fact they probably will do all right because they've got resources and good personnel. But still... It's not some great groundbreaking decision from RBR, it's them being painted into a corner and making the best of it.

speedysoprano,

Coincidently, a poster to the You Tube clip posted below, has a ‘similar’ opinion to yours…

Ed Motler 6 months ago (edited)

Interviewer: So Christian, why have you decided to switch from Renault to Honda engines?

CH: Well we've spent so many years taking credit for the wins and then slating Renault when we failed to win that we managed to royally anger Renault to the point where they introduced their own works team. You can't win the championship with a customer engine so we've had no choice but to throw the towel in with Honda and hope for an absolute miracle.

Interviewer: I see that's quite a mess. Why haven't you been fired?

CH: Because Marko is just as much to blame as me. So we're both trying to front it out and pretend to everyone that this is an actual plan.


F1 2018 - Christian Horner on the Red Bull Honda agreement for 2019 & 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BReFymU4_-g

[speedysoprano]

Fortitude said:

speedysoprano,

Coincidently, a poster to the You Tube clip posted below, has a ‘similar’ opinion to yours…

Ed Motler 6 months ago (edited)

Interviewer: So Christian, why have you decided to switch from Renault to Honda engines?

CH: Well we've spent so many years taking credit for the wins and then slating Renault when we failed to win that we managed to royally anger Renault to the point where they introduced their own works team. You can't win the championship with a customer engine so we've had no choice but to throw the towel in with Honda and hope for an absolute miracle.

Interviewer: I see that's quite a mess. Why haven't you been fired?

CH: Because Marko is just as much to blame as me. So we're both trying to front it out and pretend to everyone that this is an actual plan.


F1 2018 - Christian Horner on the Red Bull Honda agreement for 2019 & 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BReFymU4_-g

Good one!
I don't actually wish them ill, they're great for the sport, but they do spin some absolute crackers sometimes. Time will tell, and only time indeed.

[turbobloke]

RBR rhetoric said:

"In terms of performance, Honda has narrowed the gap to Mercedes and Ferrari," Tost said.

"If no serious problems arise in the next stages of development, Honda will completely close the gap during the 2019 season."

The error in the above assumption is that, like RBR, Mercedes and Ferrari aren't standing still. They/we will have to wait and see who's gone how far in which direction.

[MissChief]

turbobloke said:

RBR rhetoric said:

"In terms of performance, Honda has narrowed the gap to Mercedes and Ferrari," Tost said.

"If no serious problems arise in the next stages of development, Honda will completely close the gap during the 2019 season."

The error in the above assumption is that, like RBR, Mercedes and Ferrari aren't standing still. They/we will have to wait and see who's gone how far in which direction.

It’s reckoned both Mercedes and Ferrari were knocking on the door of 1,000HP in ‘party/qualifying’ mode with Renault 20-30HP back and Honda a further 10-20HP back. If they continue to work on this, and with the increase to 105Kg of fuel, they could hit this with regularity in the race. Even if Honda gain 40HP they’ll still be short of Ferrari and Mercedes, but i guess they’re aiming for Renault at the moment.

[thegreenhell]

MissChief said:

It’s reckoned both Mercedes and Ferrari were knocking on the door of 1,000HP in ‘party/qualifying’ mode with Renault 20-30HP back and Honda a further 10-20HP back. If they continue to work on this, and with the increase to 105Kg of fuel, they could hit this with regularity in the race. Even if Honda gain 40HP they’ll still be short of Ferrari and Mercedes, but i guess they’re aiming for Renault at the moment.

Renault themselves are claiming big gains for next season. It wouldn't surprise me if they were deliberately holding back some good developments over the past year, as they didn't really show much progress through 2018. They were trying to 'encourage' RBR to drop them in favour of Honda, and then once that deal was done they wouldn't have any motivation to show their hand before the end of the season either. They let them run the 'spec 3' Renault a couple of times, but it seemed a bit half-hearted, as if they knew there was something much better waiting in the wings.