The Official 2018 Singapore Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
I've been reading the past race weekend threads and I'm wondering where the assumption of the almighty Ferrari comes from.
Last year it was acknowledged the Ferrari and Mercedes had different strengths which suited different tracks.
This year it is harder to predict, but a short reminder of the past races should give some insight
Australia: Hamilton qualified on pole by a large margin, errors on strategy and VSC gave Vettel the win
Bahrain: Ferrari front row, Hamilton qualified 4th and managed a 3rd place finish.
China: Ferrari front row, Hamilton qualified and finished 4th. Vettel was hit by Verstappen and Red Bull used the safety car brilliantly.
Azerbaijan: Vettel manages pole in front of Hamilton, the race was a different story. The Red Bulls took each other out, Bottas managed to be in front of Vettel and he badly misjudged the safety car. Vettel destroyed his tires by that maneuver, Bottas ran over debris, cut his tires which gave Hamilton the win.
Spain: Mercedes front row, Vettel managed to overtake Bottas for 2nd behind Hamilton. Mercedes managed a one stop, while Vettel had to do a two stop, because he wasn't able to make the tires last. This was the first race the different tire surface requested by Mercedes was used.
Monaco: This was Red Bulls Race, Ricciardo out-qualified Vettel by 2 tenths, with Lewis qualifying 2 tenths behind Vettel. This was also the race result.
Canada: The qualifying order was Vettel, Bottas, Verstappen and Hamilton. The Mercedes certainly had the pace to be equal, but Bottas couldn't keep up.
France: This was a Mercedes track as well, front row with almost 4 tenths difference to Vettel in the Ferrari. The start was a mess for both Ferraris, Vettel hit Bottas, only Hamilton managed to stay clear in pole. Race didn't go too well for Vettel losing two positions finishing only in 5th.
Austria: This was a Mercedes front row as well, difference to Vettel almost 4 tenths as well. Ferrari had an awful start, getting jumped by Verstappen. Vettel lost a few positions. Vettel fought from 8th to finish the race in 3rd behind Raikkönen and Verstappen. Both Mercedes had failures and couldn't finish the race.
Great Britain: This was a very tight qualifying, Hamilton on pole closely followed by Vettel and Raikkönen. Hamilton had a terrible start, getting overtaken by Bottas and then hit by Raikkönen. Vettel won and Hamilton still secured 2nd after overtaking his teammate with little effort.
Germany: What a weekend for Vettel this looked to be, especially motivated for the home Grand Prix. It's difficult to say which car had the pace advantage, but Vettel out-qualified Bottas by 2-tenths. Had Hamilton been in the mix, it could've been different. Mercedes looked strong on pace. Hamilton started on 14th and managed to win, if this isn't good pace I don't know what is.
Once the rain started, Vettel crashed out. Perhaps the Ferrari is more difficult to drive in the wet, perhaps it was a blatant error by Vettel, perhaps it was a bit of both.
Hungary: Mercedes front row, 2nd time Raikkönen out-qualified Vettel in the season, half a second between pole for Hamilton and 3rd for Raikkönen.
Vettel overtook Raikkönen on the start. Bottas hit Vettel and Ricciardo while they tried to overtake him. Finish: Hamilton, Vettel, Raikkönen.
Belgium: Hamilton on pole beating Vettel by 7-tenths who qualified 2nd. Hamilton had a terrible start, Vettel had a great run to the straight and overtook Hamilton, who was almost challenged by Ocon.
There was always the chance Hamilton could overtake Vettel after the safety cars, but race pace for Ferrari looked very good, has to be said.
Italy: It wasn't as tight in qualifying as everyone imagined.
Raikkönen: 1:19:119 (tow by Vettel) Vettel: 1:19:280 Hamilton: 1:19:294
It was quite recent, we know that Vettel has been clumsy defending against Hamilton, but if he had solved it a bit more elegantly I'm not sure the race wouldn't have been won by a Mercedes anyway.
Raikkönen pitted too early, but they just couldn't make the tires last.
In summary: 3 Ferrari front rows against 4 Mercedes front rows.
That's 7 of 14 races so far where a clear team dominance was noticeable in qualifying.
Mixed front rows of Vettel and Hamilton: 1st Vettel (Azerbaijan) - 1st Hamilton (GB, Spa)
Pole Positions: Vettel had 5, Hamilton 6, Raikkönen 1, Bottas 1, Ricciardo 1
Monaco with pole for Ricciardo, the only pole position neither by Ferrari or Mercedes
It is worth mentioning that Vettel's pole positions in Canada and Germany were with Bottas next to him, separated by only 2 tenths.
Race Wins: Hamilton 6 (1 DNF - mechanical failure), Vettel 5 (1 DNF - crash)
Not entirely sure where the assumption comes from that the Ferrari was vastly superior to the Mercedes during the season.
Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull all have the chance to win the race. I think Vettel will win Singapore, it's a strong track for him.
Last year it was acknowledged the Ferrari and Mercedes had different strengths which suited different tracks.
This year it is harder to predict, but a short reminder of the past races should give some insight
Australia: Hamilton qualified on pole by a large margin, errors on strategy and VSC gave Vettel the win
Bahrain: Ferrari front row, Hamilton qualified 4th and managed a 3rd place finish.
China: Ferrari front row, Hamilton qualified and finished 4th. Vettel was hit by Verstappen and Red Bull used the safety car brilliantly.
Azerbaijan: Vettel manages pole in front of Hamilton, the race was a different story. The Red Bulls took each other out, Bottas managed to be in front of Vettel and he badly misjudged the safety car. Vettel destroyed his tires by that maneuver, Bottas ran over debris, cut his tires which gave Hamilton the win.
Spain: Mercedes front row, Vettel managed to overtake Bottas for 2nd behind Hamilton. Mercedes managed a one stop, while Vettel had to do a two stop, because he wasn't able to make the tires last. This was the first race the different tire surface requested by Mercedes was used.
Monaco: This was Red Bulls Race, Ricciardo out-qualified Vettel by 2 tenths, with Lewis qualifying 2 tenths behind Vettel. This was also the race result.
Canada: The qualifying order was Vettel, Bottas, Verstappen and Hamilton. The Mercedes certainly had the pace to be equal, but Bottas couldn't keep up.
France: This was a Mercedes track as well, front row with almost 4 tenths difference to Vettel in the Ferrari. The start was a mess for both Ferraris, Vettel hit Bottas, only Hamilton managed to stay clear in pole. Race didn't go too well for Vettel losing two positions finishing only in 5th.
Austria: This was a Mercedes front row as well, difference to Vettel almost 4 tenths as well. Ferrari had an awful start, getting jumped by Verstappen. Vettel lost a few positions. Vettel fought from 8th to finish the race in 3rd behind Raikkönen and Verstappen. Both Mercedes had failures and couldn't finish the race.
Great Britain: This was a very tight qualifying, Hamilton on pole closely followed by Vettel and Raikkönen. Hamilton had a terrible start, getting overtaken by Bottas and then hit by Raikkönen. Vettel won and Hamilton still secured 2nd after overtaking his teammate with little effort.
Germany: What a weekend for Vettel this looked to be, especially motivated for the home Grand Prix. It's difficult to say which car had the pace advantage, but Vettel out-qualified Bottas by 2-tenths. Had Hamilton been in the mix, it could've been different. Mercedes looked strong on pace. Hamilton started on 14th and managed to win, if this isn't good pace I don't know what is.
Once the rain started, Vettel crashed out. Perhaps the Ferrari is more difficult to drive in the wet, perhaps it was a blatant error by Vettel, perhaps it was a bit of both.
Hungary: Mercedes front row, 2nd time Raikkönen out-qualified Vettel in the season, half a second between pole for Hamilton and 3rd for Raikkönen.
Vettel overtook Raikkönen on the start. Bottas hit Vettel and Ricciardo while they tried to overtake him. Finish: Hamilton, Vettel, Raikkönen.
Belgium: Hamilton on pole beating Vettel by 7-tenths who qualified 2nd. Hamilton had a terrible start, Vettel had a great run to the straight and overtook Hamilton, who was almost challenged by Ocon.
There was always the chance Hamilton could overtake Vettel after the safety cars, but race pace for Ferrari looked very good, has to be said.
Italy: It wasn't as tight in qualifying as everyone imagined.
Raikkönen: 1:19:119 (tow by Vettel) Vettel: 1:19:280 Hamilton: 1:19:294
It was quite recent, we know that Vettel has been clumsy defending against Hamilton, but if he had solved it a bit more elegantly I'm not sure the race wouldn't have been won by a Mercedes anyway.
Raikkönen pitted too early, but they just couldn't make the tires last.
In summary: 3 Ferrari front rows against 4 Mercedes front rows.
That's 7 of 14 races so far where a clear team dominance was noticeable in qualifying.
Mixed front rows of Vettel and Hamilton: 1st Vettel (Azerbaijan) - 1st Hamilton (GB, Spa)
Pole Positions: Vettel had 5, Hamilton 6, Raikkönen 1, Bottas 1, Ricciardo 1
Monaco with pole for Ricciardo, the only pole position neither by Ferrari or Mercedes
It is worth mentioning that Vettel's pole positions in Canada and Germany were with Bottas next to him, separated by only 2 tenths.
Race Wins: Hamilton 6 (1 DNF - mechanical failure), Vettel 5 (1 DNF - crash)
Not entirely sure where the assumption comes from that the Ferrari was vastly superior to the Mercedes during the season.
Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull all have the chance to win the race. I think Vettel will win Singapore, it's a strong track for him.
Edited by IbrahimLafayette on Wednesday 12th September 13:09
Edited by IbrahimLafayette on Wednesday 12th September 13:16
Edited by IbrahimLafayette on Wednesday 12th September 13:21
Good summary IbrahimLafayette, I largely agree.
I think Merc prefer running more wing to Ferrari but interms of sheer grunt I'm not sure there is much of a gap between Merc and Ferrari PUs, especially since both teams have introduced their spec 3 units.
The remaining races imo are going to be purely about the chassis and updates. I'm not confident to say which car is quicker in what type of corners as a general statement. It seems to vary as different tracks need different aero setup.
Ferrari traction out of slow corners is something I have definitely noticed to be superior since early in the season but again this advantage seems to vary track to track and it's hard to distinguish it from what the driver is doing, is it the car or is it the driver? The Ferrari has often slightly slower apex speed in the low speed corners, so maybe the driver is sacrificing some apex speed for a better exit?
With a 30 point buffer to Vettel, I'd say it's advantage Hamilton given no DNFs for both Hamilton and Vettel for the rest of the year.
Back to Singapore, Ferrari tyre choice is surprising with no softs to practice on. I think I understand where they are coming from but teams have been pulled up by prevailing conditions changing this year when they have been a bit overconfident. I hope it's not the case here.
Gaz. said:
Rate LH very highly and imo he's made the difference to score more points than he should have. The Merc isn't as good out of slower corners, and the Ferrari's electrics give it an advantage in the early parts of the straights, not by much but faster is faster an the sport is measured in tenths after all. The Merc pit wall is much weaker than Ferrari and miles behind RBR and have missed many open goals this season. I can't think of any measure or quality where the Merc is better than the Ferrari. LH has shown that he is better at looking after tyres than the Ferraris but Bottas has not.
I see, you think the car is not good enough.I think Merc prefer running more wing to Ferrari but interms of sheer grunt I'm not sure there is much of a gap between Merc and Ferrari PUs, especially since both teams have introduced their spec 3 units.
The remaining races imo are going to be purely about the chassis and updates. I'm not confident to say which car is quicker in what type of corners as a general statement. It seems to vary as different tracks need different aero setup.
Ferrari traction out of slow corners is something I have definitely noticed to be superior since early in the season but again this advantage seems to vary track to track and it's hard to distinguish it from what the driver is doing, is it the car or is it the driver? The Ferrari has often slightly slower apex speed in the low speed corners, so maybe the driver is sacrificing some apex speed for a better exit?
With a 30 point buffer to Vettel, I'd say it's advantage Hamilton given no DNFs for both Hamilton and Vettel for the rest of the year.
Back to Singapore, Ferrari tyre choice is surprising with no softs to practice on. I think I understand where they are coming from but teams have been pulled up by prevailing conditions changing this year when they have been a bit overconfident. I hope it's not the case here.
If you look at the statsistcs over the season so far then yes it does look like both cars are very closely matched. However, Ferrari’s development has been better and it seems clear to me they now have the fastest package. Only Hamilton’s wet driving/Mercedes bettter wet weather setup has masked the performance difference.
Derek Smith said:
Stats alone cannot be depended on to show which car was fastest. Strategy is second only to the driver.
Anyone know if the FIA is pursuing Merc's wobbly bits? Nice of Ferrari not to mention it, except in a press release it appears.
From my op in the Italian gp thread...Anyone know if the FIA is pursuing Merc's wobbly bits? Nice of Ferrari not to mention it, except in a press release it appears.
I’d say they are all at it.
Deesee said:
Derek Smith said:
Stats alone cannot be depended on to show which car was fastest. Strategy is second only to the driver.
Anyone know if the FIA is pursuing Merc's wobbly bits? Nice of Ferrari not to mention it, except in a press release it appears.
From my op in the Italian gp thread...Anyone know if the FIA is pursuing Merc's wobbly bits? Nice of Ferrari not to mention it, except in a press release it appears.
I’d say they are all at it.
The movement is exagerated by the slow motion of course, but still . . .
Compared to the wobbly front wings of some teams, it seems to be no worse. Is it because there's hardly any wing being carried? The extent of lateral movement is unusual. I've watched a few qually vids on YouTube.
I'll give you a weather update, weather remains very strange it is raining every day around or just after lunch and tending to drizzle for a while after the down pour, normal it either rains early or you get a down pour late afternoon early evening as the heat builds up. Its been like this all the week, high tide is occurring around lunch time,
Even with some Ferrari updates being necessary, they have to remain favourites at Singapore.
Max will do something nuts and somehow take out both Mercs.
Then Vettel will mess it up somehow, and so Kimi can breeze through to a place on the top step.
Which is all very nice and good fun to speculate about, but at this point in this season I'm just hoping that McLaren don't utterly embarrass themselves again.
Max will do something nuts and somehow take out both Mercs.
Then Vettel will mess it up somehow, and so Kimi can breeze through to a place on the top step.
Which is all very nice and good fun to speculate about, but at this point in this season I'm just hoping that McLaren don't utterly embarrass themselves again.
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