The Official 2018 Singapore Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[angrymoby]

Gaz. said:

That’s two race wins behind for Kimi. For Vettel to be in the same boat he’d need to be 50 points behind.

So Kimi holds the record for overturning a 20pts deficit with 6 to go (old points system)

& the next being Seb with 31 (so what's that in old money? 12 pts?)

there has to be more in almost 70 years of F1, surely?

[FourWheelDrift]

angrymoby said:

Gaz. said:

That’s two race wins behind for Kimi. For Vettel to be in the same boat he’d need to be 50 points behind.

So Kimi holds the record for overturning a 20pts deficit with 6 to go (old points system)

& the next being Seb with 31 (so what's that in old money? 12 pts?)

there has to be more in almost 70 years of F1, surely?

Here's the top 10 - https://www.racefans.net/2016/10/12/top-ten-bigges...

[Marcia]

I know an old photo but none the less

Edited by Marcia on Monday 17th September 12:04

[swisstoni]

angrymoby said:

swisstoni said:

Anyone who has watched F1 (or any sport come to that) for very long would not be saying it's all over.
There are 6 races to go with tons of points to be won or lost.
And endless possibilities for slip ups, trip ups, finger trouble and stuff breaking.

only watching for 40 odd years

sure, you get the odd anomaly that stand out & that's why you remember them ...but most of the time it goes with form & averages

but ill bookmark this

I really hope you are right by the way.

[Derek Smith]

numtumfutunch said:

cb1965 said:

Ona side note one can only wonder at what Red Bull could do with a Ferrari or Mercedes engine.

Package it so it doesnt work properly?

Ouch! A cracker.

[Frimley111R]

swisstoni said:

Anyone who has watched F1 (or any sport come to that) for very long would not be saying it's all over.
There are 6 races to go with tons of points to be won or lost.
And endless possibilities for slip ups, trip ups, finger trouble and stuff breaking.

I've watched F1 since 1980. There's no way SV is going to score enough points in the remaining races of the season, no way at all. Merc are still very very strong and Hamilton is almost faultless in terms of speed and reliability. He just needs to cruise the remaining races.

[angrymoby]

swisstoni said:

I really hope you are right by the way.

torn ...

as an F1 fan, I hope i'm not

as a Hamilton fan, i hope i am

[Kraken]

Marcia said:

I know an old photo but none the less

Edited by Marcia on Monday 17th September 12:04

I like him for many reasons. In a world obsessed with social media the fact that he wants nothing to do with it makes me like him even more.

[The Surveyor]

Derek Smith said:

The Surveyor said:

Singapore is a track where overtaking near the front of the grid is almost impossible as Bottas found out trying to get past the back-markers. Ferrari pitted Seb at the right time for a 2 stop strategy, swapping the Hypersoft qualli tyre for an Ultrasoft to give them pace for the undercut which would fit into their 2 stop strategy. Ferrari had already set their stall-out for a 2 stop by their tyre selection so Mercedes were able to use the 'soft' tyre which everybody knew would easily last on a 1 stop strategy. Vettals race was neutralised once Ferrari asked him to run 45 laps on a set of Ultrasofts.

There was no way Ferrari could have made a 2 stop strategy work at Singapore when everybody else (including Kimi) was on a 1 stop. Ferrari's tactical errors again gifted Mercedes an easy win.

I thought that Ferrari might have been depending on an SC to give SB a change of tyres towards the end, back onto hypers. As it was, without softs, Ferrari had to try something.

With just the one SC I would assume that part of the cruising, especially by LH, might have been down to fuel worries.

This was a poor race for the front 6. They finished as they started. The only challenge was SV on MV, and they threw that away. We saw some absolutely brilliant laps in qually. MV and LH were awe inspiring. Then very little from the top three teams.

It would have been quite a gamble for Ferrari to have pinned all their hopes on a SC occurring just at the right time in the race and at the right point in the lap to allow Vettel to pit and change to hypers without Hamilton doing the same. Ricciardo wasn't able to make up any places following his later pit stop which shows how difficult it is to make up places at Singapore even with a tyre advantage.

The cruising was more due to the status-quo forced by the inability to get close enough to overtake rather than any fuel worries, they did circa 4 laps behind the safety car whilst they slowly recovered Ocons car.

As you say, a dull race following a one-lap masterclass in qualifying from Lewis and Max.

[Deesee]

15 races so far, 6 to go.

Wins	Podiums (1/2/3)	DNF Mechanical	DNF Other	Points Acc	Ave Per Race
7/15 Lewis 5/15 Seb	12/15 Lewis 9/15 Seb	1/15 Lewis 0/15 Seb	0/15 Lewis 1/15 Seb	Lewis 281 Seb 241	Lewis 18.73 Seb 16.06

Last 6 races GB to Sing

Wins	Podiums (1/2/3)	DNF Mechanical	DNF Other	Points Acc	Ave Per Race
4/6 Lewis 2/6 Seb	6/6 Lewis 4/6 Seb	0/6 Lewis 0/6 Seb	0/6 Lewis 1/6 Seb	Lewis 136 Seb 95	Lewis 22.66 Seb 15.83

If the last 6 races are reversed, Seb wins by a point.

WDC points predicted If current form continues (over the season)	WDC points predicted from last 6 races form
Lewis 393 Seb 337	Lewis 417 Seb 335

Edited by Deesee on Monday 17th September 12:43

[andburg]

The Surveyor said:

Singapore is a track where overtaking near the front of the grid is almost impossible as Bottas found out trying to get past the back-markers.

Bottas was in a far faster car and couldn't get close to the Renault, yet throughout the rear-midfield there were some great nose to tail battle even if little overtaking occurred.

Ignoring Singapore as arather extreme example, this still shows the reality of F1.
Mechanical grip is fairly similar across all cars but the top cars have much more aero generated grip so are affected far more when following closely. The slower cars don't lose as much of their performance when following and know they're going to be running in dirty air so aren't setup to attack the top 3 teams.

This is why we get some great prolonged battles through the midfield but rarely at the front.

reducing aero dependancy has to happen.
Not sure how it would work but I'd almost argue for a maximum amount of downforce so teams would have to differentiate by reducing drag

[anonymous-user]

Anyone think it's strange how Ricciardo seems to be going backwards since signing for Renault?

Way off Verstappen in qualifying and again in the race.

That is not just driver performance.

[swisstoni]

Deesee said:

15 races so far, 6 to go.

Wins	Podiums (1/2/3)	DNF Mechanical	DNF Other	Points Acc	Ave Per Race
7/15 Lewis 5/15 Seb	12/15 Lewis 9/15 Seb	1/15 Lewis 0/15 Seb	0/15 Lewis 1/15 Seb	Lewis 281 Seb 241	Lewis 18.77 Seb 16.06

Last 6 races GB to Sing

Wins	Podiums (1/2/3)	DNF Mechanical	DNF Other	Points Acc	Ave Per Race
4/6 Lewis 2/6 Seb	6/6 Lewis 4/6 Seb	0/6 Lewis 0/6 Seb	0/6 Lewis 1/6 Seb	Lewis 136 Seb 95	Lewis 22.66 Seb 15.83

If the last 6 races are reversed, Seb wins by a point.

WDC points predicted If current form continues (over the season)	WDC points predicted from last 6 races form
Lewis 393 Seb 337	Lewis 417 Seb 335

Chances of anything staying the same in F1 for 5 mins - zero.

It's easy to underestimate how massively Ferrari have messed up in the last couple of outings.
They really have made the Mercs look a lot better than they are.
Surely can't keep this level of cock-up going for the rest of the season.

[Mellow Yellow]

Is it just me that thinks we're back to the bad old days of Ferrari International Assistance (FIA). Despite it being obvious that a safety car would be required after the Perez/Ocon shunt, the call didn't go out until after the Vettel had made his pass on Verstappen. Almost exactly the same happened at Spa. Monza was a little different but the SC still came to Vettels aid following his spin, ensuring he was able to rejoining the back of the field after his wing change rather than rejoining half a lap down.

[rdjohn]

swisstoni said:

Chances of anything staying the same in F1 for 5 mins - zero.

It's easy to underestimate how massively Ferrari have messed up in the last couple of outings.
They really have made the Mercs look a lot better than they are.
Surely can't keep this level of cock-up going for the rest of the season.

I am inclined to agree. When Seb cruised past Lewis going up the hill at Spa, I thought that the WDC was effectively over for Lewis, if Seb could negate a pole like that at every race.

Lewis is on fire, but there is no logical reason why Ferrari can’t turn their fortunes around with a superior car, but they are now more reliant of another DNF for Lewis. The Mercedes’ greatest weakness still seems to be following in turbulent air. RB and Ferrari both seem to have a better handle on it.

[kambites]

swisstoni said:

They really have made the Mercs look a lot better than they are.
Surely can't keep this level of cock-up going for the rest of the season.

That really is the question, isn't it? I think Ferrari are going to be under a lot of pressure to go for wins at every race where earlier in the season they might have been happy to play the percentage game. Unless they can find such an advantage in terms of pace that they don't have to fight with Mercedes at all, that's going to mean they have to take extra risks both in terms of strategy and in terms of how Vettel drives. Assuming both cars are reliable, Mercedes only really need to be lucky once or twice, Ferrari need to be lucky five or six times.

I think a lot will come down to the next couple of races. As long as Vettel can win the championship by winning every race irrespective of what Hamilton does, he'll feel everything is still in his hands. As soon as he needs other people to beat Hamilton I think it becomes much harder psychologically.

[48Valves]

swisstoni said:

Deesee said:

15 races so far, 6 to go.

Wins	Podiums (1/2/3)	DNF Mechanical	DNF Other	Points Acc	Ave Per Race
7/15 Lewis 5/15 Seb	12/15 Lewis 9/15 Seb	1/15 Lewis 0/15 Seb	0/15 Lewis 1/15 Seb	Lewis 281 Seb 241	Lewis 18.77 Seb 16.06

Last 6 races GB to Sing

Wins	Podiums (1/2/3)	DNF Mechanical	DNF Other	Points Acc	Ave Per Race
4/6 Lewis 2/6 Seb	6/6 Lewis 4/6 Seb	0/6 Lewis 0/6 Seb	0/6 Lewis 1/6 Seb	Lewis 136 Seb 95	Lewis 22.66 Seb 15.83

If the last 6 races are reversed, Seb wins by a point.

WDC points predicted If current form continues (over the season)	WDC points predicted from last 6 races form
Lewis 393 Seb 337	Lewis 417 Seb 335

Chances of anything staying the same in F1 for 5 mins - zero.

It's easy to underestimate how massively Ferrari have messed up in the last couple of outings.
They really have made the Mercs look a lot better than they are.
Surely can't keep this level of cock-up going for the rest of the season.

I think Seb and Ferrari have got themselves into a downward spiral of negativity, which is really hard to get out of. Between them, they have made mistakes under pressure. Which only add on more pressure the next time a call needs to be made and they start being indecisive and second-guessing.

Look at the decision to pit so early on Sunday. It was done out of a desperation to try and force a situation that really wasn't there.

[Deesee]

swisstoni said:

Deesee said:

15 races so far, 6 to go.

Wins	Podiums (1/2/3)	DNF Mechanical	DNF Other	Points Acc	Ave Per Race
7/15 Lewis 5/15 Seb	12/15 Lewis 9/15 Seb	1/15 Lewis 0/15 Seb	0/15 Lewis 1/15 Seb	Lewis 281 Seb 241	Lewis 18.77 Seb 16.06

Last 6 races GB to Sing

Wins	Podiums (1/2/3)	DNF Mechanical	DNF Other	Points Acc	Ave Per Race
4/6 Lewis 2/6 Seb	6/6 Lewis 4/6 Seb	0/6 Lewis 0/6 Seb	0/6 Lewis 1/6 Seb	Lewis 136 Seb 95	Lewis 22.66 Seb 15.83

If the last 6 races are reversed, Seb wins by a point.

WDC points predicted If current form continues (over the season)	WDC points predicted from last 6 races form
Lewis 393 Seb 337	Lewis 417 Seb 335

Chances of anything staying the same in F1 for 5 mins - zero.

It's easy to underestimate how massively Ferrari have messed up in the last couple of outings.
They really have made the Mercs look a lot better than they are.
Surely can't keep this level of cock-up going for the rest of the season.

China (not his fault), Italy, Azerbaijan & France were points thrown away 3 collisions and a botched safety car restart overtake, let alone Germany were he bins it by himself.

Merc/Hamilton have stepped up without a doubt, they've got this feeling of finishing races, normally on the podium.

Yes, they shouldn't but can't see them getting the better of Hamilton at Suzuka or COTA.

Championships maybe were decided with one or two mistakes, Seb has 4x above all of his own doing.

Edited by Deesee on Monday 17th September 13:08

[kambites]

It's worth remembering that whilst he didn't do anything as catastrophic as Vettel's crash in Germany, Hamilton had a good few races earlier in the season where he really wasn't performing as one would expect him to. The first half of the season he only really out-scored Bottas because Bottas was extremely unlucky.

I don't think Bottas has got slower in the second half of the season, I think Hamilton has genuinely found nearly half a second a lap in himself from somewhere.

[oyster]

NFC 85 Vette said:

oyster said:

Not this st again!!!
How can both Monza AND Singapore be tracks suited to the same car? Unless that car is light years ahead of the opposition.

What similar characteristics are there between the 2 tracks?
Virtually none.

It's well known that the Ferrari has a horsepower advantage and a traction / throttle pickup advantage out of low speed corners. For those reasons, Monza and Singapore are both tracks that should have favoured their car. The problem has been translating that potential into actual performance come race day (through free practice and qualifying, they looked strong). If they don't drop the ball in qualifying, they most certainly do during the race.

Tyre allocations have been bizarre the last few races, and given how that decision's made a while in advance, you'd have to assume on the strategy front, they've probably tied one hand behind their own back for Sochi already.

It's a very, very strong car, but they've failed to use it. Merc in contrast, have got 100% out of a slightly weaker car.

How in 2017, then, did an utterly dominant Mercedes in Monza go on to become a dog in Singapore?