The Official 2018 Russia Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
LDN said:
TobyTR said:
Gaz. said:
2015 had 6 teams visit the podium, Merc, Ferrari, RBR, Williams, Force India and Lotus. 2014 also had 6 teams visit the podium with Merc, Ferrari, RBR, Williams, Force India and Mclaren.
I'd be here all night listing all the top 6 finish positions for the last 4 seasons.
In the last season of the V8s only 4 teams were on the podium. In 2007 which was a riveting season only two teams won races.
Sure some V10 seasons had many winners but some didn't such as 2002 where Ferrari won every race except two where Williams and Mclaren won one each, what all the V10 seasons had though were enormous retirement levels with 8-10 retirements being the norm in the 2000's with most midfield teams expecting a DNF more likely than seeing the chequered flag. The further back you go, the less finishers and the more widely spaced they become. 8 finishers 4 laps apart was tedious in the 90s;
2014 you only had two teams winning races with the vast majority being Mercedes; conveniently McLaren, Force India and Williams all had Mercedes power, hence the podiums. I'd be here all night listing all the top 6 finish positions for the last 4 seasons.
In the last season of the V8s only 4 teams were on the podium. In 2007 which was a riveting season only two teams won races.
Sure some V10 seasons had many winners but some didn't such as 2002 where Ferrari won every race except two where Williams and Mclaren won one each, what all the V10 seasons had though were enormous retirement levels with 8-10 retirements being the norm in the 2000's with most midfield teams expecting a DNF more likely than seeing the chequered flag. The further back you go, the less finishers and the more widely spaced they become. 8 finishers 4 laps apart was tedious in the 90s;
2015 again only had two teams winning races, vast majority being Mercedes again. Lotus that year had a Mercedes engine, along with Force India and Williams (pattern...). Red Bull only scored three podiums the entire season, so hardly regular.
And then there's the gap and domination factor. Compare that to Ferrari (obvs), McLaren-Mercedes, Williams-BMW, Renault winning races and BAR-Honda being the second-best car in 2004 & regularly on the podium and capable of a win, but not quite getting on the top step. Toyota scoring 5 podiums one year too... Much more diversity
Edited by TobyTR on Thursday 4th October 01:54
I remember Ferrari dominance, to the point that every single aspect was turned in their favour. Williams, Renault, McLaren. There’s been dominant teams throughout F1 history. The fact that, in reality, nothing much has changed in that regard; has somehow missed you.
lord summerisle said:
1988 to 1991 Senna won between 6 and 8 races out of 16 races per season.
1992 Mansell won 9 out of 16 races
94 & 95 Schumacher won 50% of the races both years in the bennetton
between 2000 and 2004 he again won 50 to 75% of the races each season for Ferrari
2005 Kimi (Mclaren) and Fernando (renault) each won 7 out of 19 races
2006 Fernando & Schumacher each won 7 of 18 races
Kinda compares to Lewis having won around 45 to 70% of races for 14, 15, 16 and 17
That says more about the genius of Senna in '91 and Schumacher in '95 and 2000, 2001 and 2003 more than anything.1992 Mansell won 9 out of 16 races
94 & 95 Schumacher won 50% of the races both years in the bennetton
between 2000 and 2004 he again won 50 to 75% of the races each season for Ferrari
2005 Kimi (Mclaren) and Fernando (renault) each won 7 out of 19 races
2006 Fernando & Schumacher each won 7 of 18 races
Kinda compares to Lewis having won around 45 to 70% of races for 14, 15, 16 and 17
The rest were decent title scraps, including '98 and '99
TobyTR said:
Nothing missed on me, except the variety of teams capable of reaching the podium, as mentioned above... did you miss that?
Again; if it’s so bad... don’t watch it! Is their a gun to your head?! There were periods of time I watched less F1. I didn’t need to shout from a roof top as to why that was the case. This season has been a cracker. Last season was good and at least Mercedes let their drivers race each other when they were completely dominant. Not something other teams have done, even when enjoying a similar level of dominance.
The only thing about his season has been the Ferrari down turn; seems they’ve been caught cheating / bending the rules. Luckily this hasn’t affected the result as it’s so late in the game; Vettel had already broken under the pressure and so we did get to see Mercedes bettered on the technical side; albeit with an inferior driver. It’s been a great season.
M3ax said:
I think we’re running petty argument free practice 1, 2 and 3 plus petty argument qualifying on Sat. The pettiest petty argument from that gets to post the first provocative and petty point on race day.
With a 50 point advantage in the WDC and a cracking FP1 and 2 in Japan Lewis is clearly a broken man. No chance of the WDC this season then.
lord summerisle said:
1988 to 1991 Senna won between 6 and 8 races out of 16 races per season.
1992 Mansell won 9 out of 16 races
94 & 95 Schumacher won 50% of the races both years in the bennetton
between 2000 and 2004 he again won 50 to 75% of the races each season for Ferrari
2005 Kimi (Mclaren) and Fernando (renault) each won 7 out of 19 races
2006 Fernando & Schumacher each won 7 of 18 races
Kinda compares to Lewis having won around 45 to 70% of races for 14, 15, 16 and 17
Yes, but there were more overtakes from pure skill and speed. Not engineered ones from DRS and other aero and tyre engineering.1992 Mansell won 9 out of 16 races
94 & 95 Schumacher won 50% of the races both years in the bennetton
between 2000 and 2004 he again won 50 to 75% of the races each season for Ferrari
2005 Kimi (Mclaren) and Fernando (renault) each won 7 out of 19 races
2006 Fernando & Schumacher each won 7 of 18 races
Kinda compares to Lewis having won around 45 to 70% of races for 14, 15, 16 and 17
There were more breakdowns, rather than engine/gearbox preservation going on. Or tyre preservation come to that.
There were more crashes (not the fatal ones, obviously) that add to the excitement.
There were more teams.
Fact is, and whichever way you dress it up, F1 has become too sanitised. From the track selection, to the regulations. I used to set my alarm to watch middle of the night races. Not any more. I wonder why?
Because other formulae and disciplines are more interesting/exciting.
Tyre Smoke said:
Yes, but there were more overtakes from pure skill and speed. Not engineered ones from DRS and other aero and tyre engineering.
There were more breakdowns, rather than engine/gearbox preservation going on. Or tyre preservation come to that.
There were more crashes (not the fatal ones, obviously) that add to the excitement.
There were more teams.
Fact is, and whichever way you dress it up, F1 has become too sanitised. From the track selection, to the regulations. I used to set my alarm to watch middle of the night races. Not any more. I wonder why?
Because other formulae and disciplines are more interesting/exciting.
And due to the points above the new records set and broken in each decade mean less and less.There were more breakdowns, rather than engine/gearbox preservation going on. Or tyre preservation come to that.
There were more crashes (not the fatal ones, obviously) that add to the excitement.
There were more teams.
Fact is, and whichever way you dress it up, F1 has become too sanitised. From the track selection, to the regulations. I used to set my alarm to watch middle of the night races. Not any more. I wonder why?
Because other formulae and disciplines are more interesting/exciting.
In 2017 the Mercedes of Hamilton didn't break once in 20 events.
Very impressive
Tyre Smoke said:
Yes, but there were more overtakes from pure skill and speed. Not engineered ones from DRS and other aero and tyre engineering.
There were more breakdowns, rather than engine/gearbox preservation going on. Or tyre preservation come to that.
There were more crashes (not the fatal ones, obviously) that add to the excitement.
There were more teams.
Fact is, and whichever way you dress it up, F1 has become too sanitised. From the track selection, to the regulations. I used to set my alarm to watch middle of the night races. Not any more. I wonder why?
Because other formulae and disciplines are more interesting/exciting.
I still watch every practice and races doesn't matter the time of the day. F1 is more exiting than 30th years ago to my eyes. There were more breakdowns, rather than engine/gearbox preservation going on. Or tyre preservation come to that.
There were more crashes (not the fatal ones, obviously) that add to the excitement.
There were more teams.
Fact is, and whichever way you dress it up, F1 has become too sanitised. From the track selection, to the regulations. I used to set my alarm to watch middle of the night races. Not any more. I wonder why?
Because other formulae and disciplines are more interesting/exciting.
Don't get me wrong, I drive 2 cars, both are more than 25years old, they look great, sound great, but no, they are not better than the current models. Championships 30years ago were very often decided by reliability more than straight forward victories.
Still, we see more overtaking nowadays than 20-30years ago were hardly more than 10cars were finishing the races.
sparta6 said:
Mika (the enigma) passing Michael (the guvnor) involved no artificial DRS.
Lewis (44) attempting a pass on Seb (the panzer), squashed against the wall on 8th gear and still pass him on turn 4 without DRS. Same at Monza, 44 passed Panzer without artificial DRS, just pure magic. 
E34-3.2 said:
I still watch every practice and races doesn't matter the time of the day. F1 is more exiting than 30th years ago to my eyes.
Don't get me wrong, I drive 2 cars, both are more than 25years old, they look great, sound great, but no, they are not better than the current models. Championships 30years ago were very often decided by reliability more than straight forward victories.
Still, we see more overtaking nowadays than 20-30years ago were hardly more than 10cars were finishing the races.
I admire you’re dedication. I used to get up at all hours, all over the world to watch whatever F1 was on. Don't get me wrong, I drive 2 cars, both are more than 25years old, they look great, sound great, but no, they are not better than the current models. Championships 30years ago were very often decided by reliability more than straight forward victories.
Still, we see more overtaking nowadays than 20-30years ago were hardly more than 10cars were finishing the races.
Just can’t do it now. I watch if I’ve nothing else on but tend to record practice, qualy and races and watch when convenient.
Today, I’d actually forgotten it was on, TV came onto C4 + 1 at 7.15 to P2.
Especially this year, when it’s all over bar the shouting, as they say, I just can’t get interested.
Watched the 1989 Japanese GP the other night, the difference in driver effort is so noticeable. So much more physical effort and the cars clearly closer to their limits than these days. Not to mention the perception of what might happen in a heavy crash, with those light, much less safe cars.
I do appreciate all the arguments about whether or not things are better or worse than they ever were but, for me, something’s missing.
E34-3.2 said:
sparta6 said:
Mika (the enigma) passing Michael (the guvnor) involved no artificial DRS.
Lewis (44) attempting a pass on Seb (the panzer), squashed against the wall on 8th gear and still pass him on turn 4 without DRS. Same at Monza, 44 passed Panzer without artificial DRS, just pure magic. . Just a much quicker car probably........ Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff