The Official USA GP 2018 thread *spoilers*
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
Have Mercedes explained why their 30 odd people working on strategy could not see that Lewis missed a win because his tyres were shot? The only thing I can think of is too many laps to the end of the race to switch but..........
30 people could well be the reason sounds like an awful lot of opinions to manage, I think they must have calculated that he would only have so many max attack laps to get to and pass Verstappen and then possibly Kimi so held on to the second set but for too long (as it turns out) I realise I'm going to be on my own with this opinion but reading some of the comments over the last few pages I can't help but feel that some people are letting the potential for the race to be a championship decider fool them in to thinking it was an exciting race. It would have been fantastic to see 8 or so laps at the end of wheel to wheel combat between the front three drivers all going for the win for the first time this season but because of the circuit layout and the fact the cars can't run so close together we just had the de facto procession with one attempted overtake by HAM which took a few laps to prepare and ended up leaving him with a bigger gap to the car in front than if he hadn't have tried it. Which is a real shame. I really hope the boffins can come up with something in the regulation changes to make the cars behave better when they are close together because it would be great to see the top drivers able to slug it out with each other corner after corner.
_Leg_ said:
Marcia said:
AppleJuice said:
HustleRussell said:
Marcia said:
I bet Mexico isn't on CH4 next weekend 
B
CKS!!
So stick your hand in your pocket? BCKS!!
If you don't mind slumming it in my garage you're welcome along. ;-)
A Brit winning a 5th championship probably won't happen again for many a decade, don't be watching it on some poxy stream.
48k said:
I realise I'm going to be on my own with this opinion but reading some of the comments over the last few pages I can't help but feel that some people are letting the potential for the race to be a championship decider fool them in to thinking it was an exciting race. It would have been fantastic to see 8 or so laps at the end of wheel to wheel combat between the front three drivers all going for the win for the first time this season but because of the circuit layout and the fact the cars can't run so close together we just had the de facto procession with one attempted overtake by HAM which took a few laps to prepare and ended up leaving him with a bigger gap to the car in front than if he hadn't have tried it. Which is a real shame. I really hope the boffins can come up with something in the regulation changes to make the cars behave better when they are close together because it would be great to see the top drivers able to slug it out with each other corner after corner.
I know what you mean and so often the potential for some excitement remains just that... potential. At least Hamilton had a go.... many others in his position would have though 3rd is good, see you next weekend. Anyhow I think we have to be careful as we don't want overtaking to be too easy. There have been some great overtakes this year and at least you know the driver shave to work for them. The likes of Verstappen, Ricciardo and Hamilton sometimes make it look easy... it isn't and that is what separates the great from the merely good. Make overtaking too simple and it will lose its significance.... I am not entirely happy about DRS, but at most circuits it is well balanced so I guess we keep it for now.37chevy said:
sparta6 said:
Haha.
No but have picked up a tricky fracture.
Tricky fracture? Must be to your jaw from talking so much sh!te ;-pNo but have picked up a tricky fracture.
te you mean a comment that you personally disagree with.Nevermind.
Next time you're over for the TT give us a shout, will ensure we have a basket of warm muffins ready
The early stop was the right call, they lost nothing by doing it.
The problem for me was the delayed second stop, for me as soon as Raikonnen got under the initial 17s Ham should have pitted to give himself fresh tires, it wasn't immediate it took a few very even laps for Kimi to actually start closing him down that gap.
I don't think anyone anticipated how quickly the softs would degrade and conversely how well the supers would last. Verstappen's pace on the supers was awesome considering how many laps they'd done at the end. Its been said a few times that the soft is designed to generate more heat, it could well again be this design and overheating that killed it off early where the supersoft held together better as it was actually running cooler.
The problem for me was the delayed second stop, for me as soon as Raikonnen got under the initial 17s Ham should have pitted to give himself fresh tires, it wasn't immediate it took a few very even laps for Kimi to actually start closing him down that gap.
I don't think anyone anticipated how quickly the softs would degrade and conversely how well the supers would last. Verstappen's pace on the supers was awesome considering how many laps they'd done at the end. Its been said a few times that the soft is designed to generate more heat, it could well again be this design and overheating that killed it off early where the supersoft held together better as it was actually running cooler.
I don’t see why merc left the second stop so long either tbh
When there was a 17 second gap and 20-25 laps left he should have been in and come out 3 seconds behind Kimi and that would have given him 20 laps at least to get the job done
But at least the championship rattles on another week
When there was a 17 second gap and 20-25 laps left he should have been in and come out 3 seconds behind Kimi and that would have given him 20 laps at least to get the job done
But at least the championship rattles on another week
We need to remember they were managing the tyres on Lewis's car not the RB or Ferrari from what I've seen this year there can be a big difference in how different cars wear their tyres.
The data must have pointed to stopping at the 17 second gap point as being too early for a max attack run to the end, it's the only explanation other than a simple mistake which I guess they don't make often unless the data is wrong.
The data must have pointed to stopping at the 17 second gap point as being too early for a max attack run to the end, it's the only explanation other than a simple mistake which I guess they don't make often unless the data is wrong.
Wills2 said:
We need to remember they were managing the tyres on Lewis's car not the RB or Ferrari from what I've seen this year there can be a big difference in how different cars wear their tyres.
The data must have pointed to stopping at the 17 second gap point as being too early for a max attack run to the end, it's the only explanation other than a simple mistake which I guess they don't make often unless the data is wrong.
But if they'd stopped earlier then they wouldn't have needed to be max attack until the end. They would have had track position over Max and been much closer to Kimi to start with. At the very least it would have got him 2nd rather than 3rd. They only needed to push so hard in the closing laps because their strategy had dropped them so far behind the two cars that were now ahead of him.The data must have pointed to stopping at the 17 second gap point as being too early for a max attack run to the end, it's the only explanation other than a simple mistake which I guess they don't make often unless the data is wrong.
topless360 said:
I don't get all the hate for Eddie Jordan, I quite like that he's part of the C4 team. He's not afraid to ask the questions that others won't, and is usually on the ball when it comes to transfer rumours.
Sure he comes out with nonsense from time to time, but so did Murray Walker.
Pretty much this to be honest.Sure he comes out with nonsense from time to time, but so did Murray Walker.
And as for the race, it was very dull except from the last 5 or so laps where things started to unfold.
Gaz. said:
ghost83 said:
I don’t see why merc left the second stop so long either tbh
When there was a 17 second gap and 20-25 laps left he should have been in and come out 3 seconds behind Kimi and that would have given him 20 laps at least to get the job done
But at least the championship rattles on another week
This is what baffles me, everyone on their sofas independently came to the same conclusion literally within a lap of each other with no more knowledge than the timing tower and the pictures of his tyres on screen yet Merc again took 20 odd minutes to come to the same conclusion. Even if you paid those 30 odd people in the strat department minimum wage you're talking half a million Euros to come up with potato.When there was a 17 second gap and 20-25 laps left he should have been in and come out 3 seconds behind Kimi and that would have given him 20 laps at least to get the job done
But at least the championship rattles on another week
So why, when many ran 25-30 laps on ultras and supers they'd qualified on, were lewis's softs toasted after 20 laps? Did he initially take too much trying to catch/pass kimi rather than bringing them up to temp?
Gaz. said:
Roofless Toothless said:
To be fair, there is one valid question to be asked that comes out of the 'is F1 fixed?' debate.
There can be no doubt that telling a number two driver to move over alters the result of a race, so how does the betting industry handle this? And why should the reaction to it be different than in other sports? Could the law even be involved if it is deemed corruption?
For instance, if in a horse race, a jockey pulled up his horse to make sure a stablemate finished in front, would there not be an outcry from punters who had lost money and the Jockey Club get involved? Or a football team deliberately losing a match to influence another club's progression through a cup competition. Was there not an occasion in the recent World Cup when it was suggested that two national sides were both trying to lose a game to ensure an easier fixture in the next round. How did the betting shops handle that?
I have never placed a bet or been in a bookie's in my life, so this is a genuine question.
I suspect the betting industry would gladly take the money from someone who doesn't know the rules of the sport they are betting on. There can be no doubt that telling a number two driver to move over alters the result of a race, so how does the betting industry handle this? And why should the reaction to it be different than in other sports? Could the law even be involved if it is deemed corruption?
For instance, if in a horse race, a jockey pulled up his horse to make sure a stablemate finished in front, would there not be an outcry from punters who had lost money and the Jockey Club get involved? Or a football team deliberately losing a match to influence another club's progression through a cup competition. Was there not an occasion in the recent World Cup when it was suggested that two national sides were both trying to lose a game to ensure an easier fixture in the next round. How did the betting shops handle that?
I have never placed a bet or been in a bookie's in my life, so this is a genuine question.
Team orders are part of the sport, what isn't is intra-team orders but again self interest makes it hard to police, why would you fight an out of position front runner when he will end up in front of you anyway? I'm not sure when the latter became a trend but I first noticed it in 2012 so perhaps it wasn't an issue for the midfield to fight OOP front runners when the tyres were good?
His answer was they pay out pretty much immediately on the result (in that case, if you had bet on Hamiliton winning spa, you'd have got your winnings... that he was later demoted to 3rd with the drive through, ment those that had placed a bet on massa to win, also got a payout. Paddy Power took the "hit" on that occasion)
topless360 said:
I don't get all the hate for Eddie Jordan, I quite like that he's part of the C4 team. He's not afraid to ask the questions that others won't, and is usually on the ball when it comes to transfer rumours.
Sure he comes out with nonsense from time to time, but so did Murray Walker.
I'm with you on that. Reassuringly un-corporate, I can live with the faux pas for the occasional insights.Sure he comes out with nonsense from time to time, but so did Murray Walker.
HustleRussell said:
Disagree, When it happened I thought that would be the race winning move- only the unexpectedly poor overall performance of the untested Soft tyre +1.5PSI and the unexpectedly good overall performance of the Red Bull of Max Verstappen caused it to go the other way IMO.
If Raikkonen had pitted same as Lewis did he probably would've had a lot more work to do to win the race.
The tyre pressure adjustment issue has perhaps been overlooked by everyone...is this going to be the rearguard action to "spice up" the last few meetings?If Raikkonen had pitted same as Lewis did he probably would've had a lot more work to do to win the race.
Kccv23highliftcam said:
HustleRussell said:
Disagree, When it happened I thought that would be the race winning move- only the unexpectedly poor overall performance of the untested Soft tyre +1.5PSI and the unexpectedly good overall performance of the Red Bull of Max Verstappen caused it to go the other way IMO.
If Raikkonen had pitted same as Lewis did he probably would've had a lot more work to do to win the race.
The tyre pressure adjustment issue has perhaps been overlooked by everyone...If Raikkonen had pitted same as Lewis did he probably would've had a lot more work to do to win the race.
hing about it post race and everyone else made the one stop work.Merc blinked first yesterday, that happens sometimes and we were treated to a tense final dozen laps as a result so not all bad for us as fans/viewers.
I remarked when the VSC came out to the wife and step son that it was too early for a stop and that when Ferrari pitted Kimi too early in Monza they had a similar issue (although somehow Kimi made it to the end)
geeks said:
Kccv23highliftcam said:
HustleRussell said:
Disagree, When it happened I thought that would be the race winning move- only the unexpectedly poor overall performance of the untested Soft tyre +1.5PSI and the unexpectedly good overall performance of the Red Bull of Max Verstappen caused it to go the other way IMO.
If Raikkonen had pitted same as Lewis did he probably would've had a lot more work to do to win the race.
The tyre pressure adjustment issue has perhaps been overlooked by everyone...If Raikkonen had pitted same as Lewis did he probably would've had a lot more work to do to win the race.
hing about it post race and everyone else made the one stop work.Merc blinked first yesterday, that happens sometimes and we were treated to a tense final dozen laps as a result so not all bad for us as fans/viewers.
I remarked when the VSC came out to the wife and step son that it was too early for a stop and that when Ferrari pitted Kimi too early in Monza they had a similar issue (although somehow Kimi made it to the end)
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pirelli-explain...
thegreenhell said:
Wills2 said:
We need to remember they were managing the tyres on Lewis's car not the RB or Ferrari from what I've seen this year there can be a big difference in how different cars wear their tyres.
The data must have pointed to stopping at the 17 second gap point as being too early for a max attack run to the end, it's the only explanation other than a simple mistake which I guess they don't make often unless the data is wrong.
But if they'd stopped earlier then they wouldn't have needed to be max attack until the end. They would have had track position over Max and been much closer to Kimi to start with. At the very least it would have got him 2nd rather than 3rd. They only needed to push so hard in the closing laps because their strategy had dropped them so far behind the two cars that were now ahead of him.The data must have pointed to stopping at the 17 second gap point as being too early for a max attack run to the end, it's the only explanation other than a simple mistake which I guess they don't make often unless the data is wrong.
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