Leclerc, Vettel & Ferrari 2019

Leclerc, Vettel & Ferrari 2019

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Discussion

HTP99

13,131 posts

76 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
TobyTR said:
Sa Calobra said:
It shows how little faith they have in the other new/current drivers.

That's depressing for me. There is no one that is a real talent. Just rich kids.
That's peak PistonHeads guff.
yes

OFORBES said:
You raise an interesting point
Not really. People love to bash the sport but these criticisms are badly misplaced in the context of the current grid. Pretty much all the drivers bring sponsorship in some form, that doesn’t detract from the fact that the depth of talent throughout the grid is about the greatest it’s ever been.
Wasn't Alonso effectively the highest paid, pay driver when he wad with Mclaren with all of the Santander sponsorship that he brought with him!

Muzzer79

2,498 posts

123 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
TobyTR said:
Sa Calobra said:
It shows how little faith they have in the other new/current drivers.

That's depressing for me. There is no one that is a real talent. Just rich kids.
No real talent? Leclerc won GP3 and F2 in his rookie seasons - did you not watch any of those races or him in the Sauber this year?

That's peak PistonHeads guff. Tell the Ferrari top-bods that Leclerc has no real talent... rofl
Does a rich kid beating other rich kids in GP3 and F2 make him talented?

It's an interesting discussion.

FWIW, with Russell, Norris & Albon joining the grid and Gasly and LeClerc moving to top teams, I believe we have a good spread of talent.

Now that Sirotkin has gone, it's only really Stroll who you look at and think he's obviously paying his way.

There's no one in the lower series' who I would say has blatantly missed out due to lack of funds.

HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
Sa Calobra said:
There is no one that is a real talent. Just rich kids.
Muzzer79 said:
Does a rich kid beating other rich kids in GP3 and F2 make him talented?
So much bitterness!

Since when are talent and wealth mutually exclusive? In my opinion they are often positively linked, especially in the context of motor racing where having the money gets you more seat time into more races in more advanced series, earlier.

People love to bash Stroll because he is perceived to have bought his F1 opportunity but he won F3 Euro with Prema just as Mick Schumacher has just done, as Esteban Ocon did, as Lando Norris did...

There is a clear path of ascension to F1, clearer than ever before- nobody who reaches F1 has done so just by paying their way. You have to become one of the best racing drivers in the world.

OFORBES

Original Poster:

72 posts

36 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
Thats true, you cant just rock up with billions and get a seat, you have to have amounted a certain number of points etc to have a super license so everyone has to have some form of talent...

It's just interesting sat here trying to think of a handful of drivers who have got to F1 without a lot of money, like the old days

HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
I believe the three Frenchmen are from humble beginnings, especially Ocon... but you have to be aware that any kid who gets to sit in a kart probably isn't living on the breadline. Motorsport must have the highest cost of entry point of any sport bar a few, equestrian?

All the drivers are freaks. What kind of kid can convince their parents to spend that kind of money on karting when they've not long since stopped wetting the bed? and what parent is going to risk their home and livelihood on the million to one chance it'll ever come to anything, unless the parent is involved with motor racing already, or is at least very comfortable financially.
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HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
Just an example which sprung to mind... Did you see Billy monger's folks' house in that documentary?

HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
OFORBES said:
trying to think of a handful of drivers who have got to F1 without a lot of money, like the old days
The idea that it was easier to get into F1 without a lot of money in 'the old days' is a myth.

The fact is directly contrary to the point you are making, it was absolutely possible from the birth of Grand Prix racing up until it's mass commercialisation, for a wealthy person to literally buy a car or team and enter races.

Edited by HustleRussell on Tuesday 4th December 10:57

The Moose

16,992 posts

145 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
I believe the three Frenchmen are from humble beginnings, especially Ocon... but you have to be aware that any kid who gets to sit in a kart probably isn't living on the breadline. Motorsport must have the highest cost of entry point of any sport bar a few, equestrian?

All the drivers are freaks. What kind of kid can convince their parents to spend that kind of money on karting when they've not long since stopped wetting the bed? and what parent is going to risk their home and livelihood on the million to one chance it'll ever come to anything, unless the parent is involved with motor racing already, or is at least very comfortable financially.
In Ocon’s interview on beyond the grid, he talks about his humble upbringing. Including his family living in a van converted to a motor home for a few years while travelling Europe driving karts.

HardtopManual

1,070 posts

102 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
The Moose said:
In Ocon’s interview on beyond the grid, he talks about his humble upbringing. Including his family living in a van converted to a motor home for a few years while travelling Europe driving karts.
I don't think there's anything particularly humble about being wealthy enough to travel around Europe in a motorhome for a few years, and to be able to race karts while you're doing it.

HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
HardtopManual said:
I don't think there's anything particularly humble about being wealthy enough to travel around Europe in a motorhome for a few years, and to be able to race karts while you're doing it.
You should listen to the podcast.

thegreenhell

4,860 posts

155 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
HardtopManual said:
I don't think there's anything particularly humble about being wealthy enough to travel around Europe in a motorhome for a few years, and to be able to race karts while you're doing it.
Not even if they sold the family home to pay for it?

“All the top drivers were in teams but we had a small truck, the same one my father worked with. At one point my father sold our house and we were living in a caravan. After the races I was sleeping in front of the school in the caravan, to go to school in the morning.”

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article...

Edited by thegreenhell on Tuesday 4th December 13:02

sparta6

1,075 posts

36 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
OFORBES said:
Thats true, you cant just rock up with billions and get a seat, you have to have amounted a certain number of points etc to have a super license so everyone has to have some form of talent...

It's just interesting sat here trying to think of a handful of drivers who have got to F1 without a lot of money, like the old days
Stroll has billions. Not sure about talent though.

Sadly the routes available for determined talent re-mortgaging their house ala Mansell are over.



HustleRussell

15,460 posts

96 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Sadly the routes available for determined talent re-mortgaging their house ala Mansell are over.
...except for the current examples discussed in the posts immediately before yours?

I swear some people want to be sad.

Exige77

2,965 posts

127 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
HardtopManual said:
The Moose said:
In Ocon’s interview on beyond the grid, he talks about his humble upbringing. Including his family living in a van converted to a motor home for a few years while travelling Europe driving karts.
I don't think there's anything particularly humble about being wealthy enough to travel around Europe in a motorhome for a few years, and to be able to race karts while you're doing it.
How else are you going to race if you don’t travel around and go to the races ? So no one is humble by your deffinition ?

You’ve obviously not been to any high level Kart races and seen the £200K motor homes for little Johnny ?


sparta6

1,075 posts

36 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
HardtopManual said:
I don't think there's anything particularly humble about being wealthy enough to travel around Europe in a motorhome for a few years, and to be able to race karts while you're doing it.
Depends on the quality of said motorhome.
Some of the conversions are palatial biggrin

TobyTR

230 posts

82 months

Tuesday 4th December
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
Sa Calobra said:
There is no one that is a real talent. Just rich kids.
Muzzer79 said:
Does a rich kid beating other rich kids in GP3 and F2 make him talented?
So much bitterness!

Since when are talent and wealth mutually exclusive? In my opinion they are often positively linked, especially in the context of motor racing where having the money gets you more seat time into more races in more advanced series, earlier.

People love to bash Stroll because he is perceived to have bought his F1 opportunity but he won F3 Euro with Prema just as Mick Schumacher has just done, as Esteban Ocon did, as Lando Norris did...

There is a clear path of ascension to F1, clearer than ever before- nobody who reaches F1 has done so just by paying their way. You have to become one of the best racing drivers in the world.
So much bitterness and ill-informed nonsense, it's laughable.

Ferrari gives a 'rich kid' a four-year deal and apparently he has no talent and is where he is because he's beaten other rich kids. Welcome to PistonHeads... Anyone who doesn't recognise Leclerc's talent is blind, frankly.

When I think of privileged rich kids who have bought their way into F1 over more talented drivers, I think of Max Chilton (he who finished GP2 4th in the championship).

To be fair, any driver who wins the GP2/F2 Championship deserves a shot in F1, even Jolyon Palmer deserved a season in F1 to show everyone what he was made of.

People forget Senna came from an extremely(!) wealthy family. The only modern-day successful F1 drivers who come from humble families are Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel - not a bad list... even Ricciardo comes from a wealthy family, but is he only there because of family money? Of course not.