Discussion
Petrus1983 said:
sgtBerbatov said:
Petrus1983 said:
In all seriousness do you think they’ve started focusing on their 2020 car knowing this one is so far gone it’s not worth bothering with too much?
They did that last year, now look where they are. Vaud said:
CoolHands said:
They’re banking on the new regs to help them. I think that’s a poor mindset
They are banking on new regs and cost cap to survive.The attitude has seemed to be one of, ‘bringing everybody down to their level and then everything will be like Sesame Street again’.
They need to cut their cloth accordingly. There’s no point about them being arrogant about their history, if bending their knee to the Haas model might actually buy them more/better years in the sport.
tigerkoi said:
Vaud, I agree, but I think the team are also inured with a poor mindset too, or at least a position that Claire has openly projected for too long.
The attitude has seemed to be one of, ‘bringing everybody down to their level and then everything will be like Sesame Street again’.
They need to cut their cloth accordingly. There’s no point about them being arrogant about their history, if bending their knee to the Haas model might actually buy them more/better years in the sport.
I agree. I think they need to be brave and follow that model, Frank should retire and just be chairman. Get rid of Claire and in exchange for a significant % of the business, lure a TP and lead designer from another team.The attitude has seemed to be one of, ‘bringing everybody down to their level and then everything will be like Sesame Street again’.
They need to cut their cloth accordingly. There’s no point about them being arrogant about their history, if bending their knee to the Haas model might actually buy them more/better years in the sport.
Vaud said:
tigerkoi said:
Vaud, I agree, but I think the team are also inured with a poor mindset too, or at least a position that Claire has openly projected for too long.
The attitude has seemed to be one of, ‘bringing everybody down to their level and then everything will be like Sesame Street again’.
They need to cut their cloth accordingly. There’s no point about them being arrogant about their history, if bending their knee to the Haas model might actually buy them more/better years in the sport.
I agree. I think they need to be brave and follow that model, Frank should retire and just be chairman. Get rid of Claire and in exchange for a significant % of the business, lure a TP and lead designer from another team.The attitude has seemed to be one of, ‘bringing everybody down to their level and then everything will be like Sesame Street again’.
They need to cut their cloth accordingly. There’s no point about them being arrogant about their history, if bending their knee to the Haas model might actually buy them more/better years in the sport.
If they carry on as they are doing, then complete failure will surely occur if they can't raise sponsorship budget for next season, sufficient to build a new car. If they can't build and field a car they lose payments from F1, and whatever sponsorship they had will be pulled. With a wage roll of about 700, the company simply can't survive for very long at all. This season their budget is around £125m I recall. And that's very modest given the size of the organisation, and it has showed. I'd imagine any drop in revenue next year, with the size of the operation they maintain, and it simply wouldn't be enough.
Just a back of a fag packet calculation on the wage roll alone gets me to around £35m (including Lowe) Add in general running costs and the HUGE expense of logistics and travel for each race, and you end up with not much left to build a car. HAAS, by comparison, have a similar budget and less than 100 staff I think. I can't see how the ends can continue to meet if there is any further reduction in revenue, and I can't see how they can hope to match the revenue of this, or last season moving forward.
Sell it, Frank.
TheDeuce said:
A205GTI said:
They are actually floated on the stock market as a way to get cash in.
Yea... that's going well...Of course Williams could run a rights issue, but that would just dilute the family holding and result in a loss of control. It is hard to see that happening right now. And honestly, if they had more cash but no clue would they not just spend more cash chasing problems?
skwdenyer said:
TheDeuce said:
A205GTI said:
They are actually floated on the stock market as a way to get cash in.
Yea... that's going well...Of course Williams could run a rights issue, but that would just dilute the family holding and result in a loss of control. It is hard to see that happening right now. And honestly, if they had more cash but no clue would they not just spend more cash chasing problems?
Frank and Claire are sadly proven over a very long period to not be effective. There have been upward moments in recent history but the general trajectory has been downwards. And the fact is, they now have a factory and staff count that you would expect to see from a top team, but with no equal result. They have essentially ended up with a machine that eats a massive amount of money each season and then spits out a comedy F1 car. To say it's 'poor value for money' would be a drastic understatement.
Blib said:
I know nothing about this. But, that's never stopped me in the past.
I wonder who in their right mind would put their company name, logo and reputation in the hands of Williams in the short to mid term?
How are they going to attract big buck sponsorship?
That's the issue this thread keeps returning to. It's obviously not working as it is and sponsors only get harder to find if the car is a snail. The fact they replaced last years snail car with a new even slower snail car can't possibly be a good thing when it comes to hunting for millions of pounds of sponsorship.I wonder who in their right mind would put their company name, logo and reputation in the hands of Williams in the short to mid term?
How are they going to attract big buck sponsorship?
This season, they played a pretty smart card by taking on Kubica, who bought money via his own sponsorship and also an interesting and positive newsworthy story, so at least there were positive headlines even though the car is useless. Next year...? Who knows what can be blagged - all we know for sure is that it can only become harder to scrape sponsorship so long as they keep running last in each race.
They will find a headline sponsor for 2020 but I'm willing to bet the deal will be less than they would hope for, or need. Whoever sponsors them won't be a big name brand with big name money. The bottom line is, that you have to bankroll and show performance to attract big sponsors - you can't expect sponsors to pay in advance of performance. At very least you need to be able to show some upwards momentum. Fat chance of that though, they seem to have already given up on this years car - so there isn't really very much intent left to attract a sponsor moving forwards.
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 18th April 00:21
TheDeuce said:
Blib said:
I know nothing about this. But, that's never stopped me in the past.
I wonder who in their right mind would put their company name, logo and reputation in the hands of Williams in the short to mid term?
How are they going to attract big buck sponsorship?
That's the issue this thread keeps returning to. It's obviously not working as it is and sponsors only get harder to find if the car is a snail. The fact they replaced last years snail car with a new even slower snail car can't possibly be a good thing when it comes to hunting for millions of pounds of sponsorship.I wonder who in their right mind would put their company name, logo and reputation in the hands of Williams in the short to mid term?
How are they going to attract big buck sponsorship?
This season, they played a pretty smart card by taking on Kubica, who bought money via his own sponsorship and also an interesting and positive newsworthy story, so at least there were positive headlines even though the car is useless. Next year...? Who knows what can be blagged - all we know for sure is that it can only become harder to scrape sponsorship so long as they keep running last in each race.
They will find a headline sponsor for 2020 but I'm willing to bet the deal will be less than they would hope for, or need. Whoever sponsors them won't be a big name brand with big name money.
When selling sponsorship, all one really has to sell is hope. Personnel changes can provide some of that to those predisposed to feel it.
skwdenyer said:
TheDeuce said:
Blib said:
I know nothing about this. But, that's never stopped me in the past.
I wonder who in their right mind would put their company name, logo and reputation in the hands of Williams in the short to mid term?
How are they going to attract big buck sponsorship?
That's the issue this thread keeps returning to. It's obviously not working as it is and sponsors only get harder to find if the car is a snail. The fact they replaced last years snail car with a new even slower snail car can't possibly be a good thing when it comes to hunting for millions of pounds of sponsorship.I wonder who in their right mind would put their company name, logo and reputation in the hands of Williams in the short to mid term?
How are they going to attract big buck sponsorship?
This season, they played a pretty smart card by taking on Kubica, who bought money via his own sponsorship and also an interesting and positive newsworthy story, so at least there were positive headlines even though the car is useless. Next year...? Who knows what can be blagged - all we know for sure is that it can only become harder to scrape sponsorship so long as they keep running last in each race.
They will find a headline sponsor for 2020 but I'm willing to bet the deal will be less than they would hope for, or need. Whoever sponsors them won't be a big name brand with big name money.
When selling sponsorship, all one really has to sell is hope. Personnel changes can provide some of that to those predisposed to feel it.
Right now, they have no hope to sell. All they have is a downward trajectory reinforced by a second season at the absolute back of the pack. I think last year they did manage to attract some money because it was feasible that they had a plan to turn their fate around. But they didn't, and they can't claim the same belief they can turn it around next season, when under the same conditions they failed last season and this season. It's clearly just not working.
tigerkoi said:
Interesting if accurate.. but either way it's exactly the next big thing I expect to see happen at Williams.I'm sure quite a few people would be interested in buying in, on the proviso they take control.
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