Discussion
CoolHands said:
Why wouldn’t they get one of their own drivers to take him round though?
Because having the current world champion, and one of the most successful drivers of all time, do it conveys the enormity of Sir Frank's achievement, and the respect in which he is held along the length of the pitlane. not just within his own team.Europa1 said:
Because having the current world champion, and one of the most successful drivers of all time, do it conveys the enormity of Sir Frank's achievement, and the respect in which he is held along the length of the pitlane. not just within his own team.
This ^^ Who else would have that role at the British GP?? Back before Williams hit troubled times drivers of Lewis's calibur used to queue up for a seat.I loved it, it was extremely moving. We've lost a couple of guys this year that were a link to the past of F1, it was great to see another, Frank, out and about and experiencing a track first hand. His smile was genuine and giddy.
Williams might be a bit of a joke today - but as a man he built a British, Ferrari beating force. Legend. I do wish he'd sell the damn team as the future looks impossible for them right now, but overall his time in F1 has been stellar. 40 years of competitive racing...
I noted yesterday that Russell was dropping about 2.5 - 3 tenths a lap from a very tight midfield for the first 7 or 8 laps, then he seemed to drop away significantly. I guess this could most likely be explained by either a lack of downforce prematurely overcooking the tyres or the midfield were tripping over themselves for those laps, then settled down and consequently sped up.
Conversely, Kubica seemed to drop away from Russell drastically at the start, but then their times levelled off a bit with him 'only' dropping a few tenths a lap.
I suspect Russell is trying to get racy with the cars infront, especially as he can almost hang onto them at the start and then has to nurse his tyres, whereas Kubica is possibly doing the sensible thing and looking after his tyres at the start so they are better for longer - but then he's too far behind (and still not any faster) to close the gap back up.
Conversely, Kubica seemed to drop away from Russell drastically at the start, but then their times levelled off a bit with him 'only' dropping a few tenths a lap.
I suspect Russell is trying to get racy with the cars infront, especially as he can almost hang onto them at the start and then has to nurse his tyres, whereas Kubica is possibly doing the sensible thing and looking after his tyres at the start so they are better for longer - but then he's too far behind (and still not any faster) to close the gap back up.
janesmith1950 said:
I feel sad for Kubica. There's no chance he'll be there next year (or on the grid at all) and he's unlikely to finish anything other than last or even enjoy some genuine racing unless someone else has a major issue. It's like a whole season of testing in a pants car.
Kubica was in front of Giovinazzi in Monaco. Giovinazzi didn't have any issue.The reliability and lack of collisions is hurting Williams this year. Last year by the end of silverstone there were
Retirements 2018 37
Retirements 2019 19
most retirements in one race (ie a chance to luck into some points)
2018 Spain and Azerbaijan (6)
2019 Azerbaijan (4)
As the saying goes to finish 10th first you must finish. but 10 people have to not finish.
Retirements 2018 37
Retirements 2019 19
most retirements in one race (ie a chance to luck into some points)
2018 Spain and Azerbaijan (6)
2019 Azerbaijan (4)
As the saying goes to finish 10th first you must finish. but 10 people have to not finish.
Lebo44 said:
janesmith1950 said:
I feel sad for Kubica. There's no chance he'll be there next year (or on the grid at all) and he's unlikely to finish anything other than last or even enjoy some genuine racing unless someone else has a major issue. It's like a whole season of testing in a pants car.
Kubica was in front of Giovinazzi in Monaco. Giovinazzi didn't have any issue.As for there being no chance of him being there next year, that kind of depends on what sponsorship he can bring and what Williams plans for next year are. I don't expect them to aim for anything remotely ambitious at least until 2021, if that's the case it hardly matter who's in the car so long as they bring some much needed £££.
TheDeuce said:
I'm yet to be convinced he had superior pace in Monaco though..
As for there being no chance of him being there next year, that kind of depends on what sponsorship he can bring and what Williams plans for next year are. I don't expect them to aim for anything remotely ambitious at least until 2021, if that's the case it hardly matter who's in the car so long as they bring some much needed £££.
I just meant that given his good starts there could be another 1 or 2 races where, under certain conditions like heavy rain and/or improved Williams' car performance (after upgrades for German GP for example), he would be able to defend his position from one or more rivals.As for there being no chance of him being there next year, that kind of depends on what sponsorship he can bring and what Williams plans for next year are. I don't expect them to aim for anything remotely ambitious at least until 2021, if that's the case it hardly matter who's in the car so long as they bring some much needed £££.
janesmith1950 said:
I feel sad for Kubica. There's no chance he'll be there next year (or on the grid at all) and he's unlikely to finish anything other than last or even enjoy some genuine racing unless someone else has a major issue. It's like a whole season of testing in a pants car.
I think he's symbolic of Williams problems right now, not quick enough to be there and not deserving of being taken seriously.As for Claire you guys are all like "oh she comes across so nicely" wtf that's where your problem begins, frank Williams like most of the TPs was a ruthless b
d who'd have pointed, laughed and told to go home an outfit rolling around at the back essentially running F1 driver experiences for whoever can bring enough $$ Actually give kubica the TP job, solves both problems, bet he'd roll a few heads - seems to have an old school evil streak in him that knows what he wants and would do what it takes to achieve it - for example his return to F1, which was about him BEING in F1 regardless of what anybody else thinks.
Lebo44 said:
TheDeuce said:
I'm yet to be convinced he had superior pace in Monaco though..
As for there being no chance of him being there next year, that kind of depends on what sponsorship he can bring and what Williams plans for next year are. I don't expect them to aim for anything remotely ambitious at least until 2021, if that's the case it hardly matter who's in the car so long as they bring some much needed £££.
I just meant that given his good starts there could be another 1 or 2 races where, under certain conditions like heavy rain and/or improved Williams' car performance (after upgrades for German GP for example), he would be able to defend his position from one or more rivals.As for there being no chance of him being there next year, that kind of depends on what sponsorship he can bring and what Williams plans for next year are. I don't expect them to aim for anything remotely ambitious at least until 2021, if that's the case it hardly matter who's in the car so long as they bring some much needed £££.
I don't expect to see any real improvement either. So far there hasn't been any improvement - at least not relative to the rest of the grid. If you look at their budget and the size of their operation then you can imagine it must be hard to find the cash to get the basic car out each season, let alone rip it to pieces several times a year and revise it in a significant way.
I may be wrong of course - I can't see what goes on behind the scenes. Being realistic though, I can't see them making the car a second a lap faster. The fact RK is frequently an additional second behind his team mate, Williams would need to make one of the biggest and most spectacular leaps forward in development terms of the entire grid this season in order to make him a genuine threat to any other driver.
To be honest I'm only so keen to be realistic/pessimistic about these things as I would love to see Williams sort it out and start racing again - I just can't bare the idea of having that hope and being disappointed
The logical part of brain looks at the evidence and what is known about the situation the team are in and it seems beyond sense to hope too much.Europa1 said:
CoolHands said:
Why wouldn’t they get one of their own drivers to take him round though?
Because having the current world champion, and one of the most successful drivers of all time, do it conveys the enormity of Sir Frank's achievement, and the respect in which he is held along the length of the pitlane. not just within his own team.Teddy Lop said:
I think he's symbolic of Williams problems right now, not quick enough to be there and not deserving of being taken seriously.
As for Claire you guys are all like "oh she comes across so nicely" wtf that's where your problem begins, frank Williams like most of the TPs was a ruthless bd who'd have pointed, laughed and told to go home an outfit rolling around at the back essentially running F1 driver experiences for whoever can bring enough $$
Actually give kubica the TP job, solves both problems, bet he'd roll a few heads - seems to have an old school evil streak in him that knows what he wants and would do what it takes to achieve it - for example his return to F1, which was about him BEING in F1 regardless of what anybody else thinks.
Couldn't agree more with all of that. His return was for personal reasons - it was a target. He's proved he could achieve the return. He's also sadly consistently proven he can't match (or even see) his team mate. Whatever - he's not a moron, he wanted a return - I doubt he ever thought he was going to pick up where he left off 8 years ago. Good on him for completing his journey back to F1 though.As for Claire you guys are all like "oh she comes across so nicely" wtf that's where your problem begins, frank Williams like most of the TPs was a ruthless b
d who'd have pointed, laughed and told to go home an outfit rolling around at the back essentially running F1 driver experiences for whoever can bring enough $$ Actually give kubica the TP job, solves both problems, bet he'd roll a few heads - seems to have an old school evil streak in him that knows what he wants and would do what it takes to achieve it - for example his return to F1, which was about him BEING in F1 regardless of what anybody else thinks.
And yes, were she any other woman on the entire planet, Claire would have been picked to pieces and fired several times by now. That doesn't mean it's wrong to give special treatment to your own offspring, it's normal to do just that - especially in a family business. In the end though, if we're going to debate what's up with Williams then it's not possible to skip over Claire because 'she seems lovely'. I know hundreds of very lovely people that couldn't run an F1 team!
Frank is never going to fire Claire, he's never going to bully her in to shape - as he would have done in the past with other team HOD's. He's an old man now, she's not up to the job, he still sticks his beak in no doubt which also surely can't be particularly helpful. The situation is unworkable, they should sell now before further damage is done. In the end, they won't have any choice but to sell - at least if it's done now they can name the price. Mercedes need a true b-team ahead of 2021 in order to maintain their rate of testing and development under the incoming budget caps.
thegreenhell said:
Lewis takes Sir Frank for a spin around Silverstone, and Claire invites him to drive for their team: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSoQtwbpcGU
‘When you get tired of winning, try our car’ Sponsor friendly soundbite that
shirt said:
thegreenhell said:
Lewis takes Sir Frank for a spin around Silverstone, and Claire invites him to drive for their team: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSoQtwbpcGU
‘When you get tired of winning, try our car’ Sponsor friendly soundbite that
The irony being, that if Lewis had said yes, it wouldn't really help them. He's an excellent driver, Lewis - but he's not a magician. No one is getting that car off the back row.
Both Williams drivers have said several times that they could push more but if they do, the car becomes unpredictable and lets them down. Then it spins off or goes over the kerbs and there is damage, not allowed because of spares issues... It's beyond tragic. A Jedi driver couldn't find enough pace in that car to make it competitive. That's the reality and it really does make me itch when she makes jokes about it.
TheDeuce said:
(crop)
Frank is never going to fire Claire, he's never going to bully her in to shape - as he would have done in the past with other team HOD's. He's an old man now, she's not up to the job, he still sticks his beak in no doubt which also surely can't be particularly helpful. The situation is unworkable, they should sell now before further damage is done. In the end, they won't have any choice but to sell - at least if it's done now they can name the price. Mercedes need a true b-team ahead of 2021 in order to maintain their rate of testing and development under the incoming budget caps.
But who is the real problem Frank or Claire (or both).Frank is never going to fire Claire, he's never going to bully her in to shape - as he would have done in the past with other team HOD's. He's an old man now, she's not up to the job, he still sticks his beak in no doubt which also surely can't be particularly helpful. The situation is unworkable, they should sell now before further damage is done. In the end, they won't have any choice but to sell - at least if it's done now they can name the price. Mercedes need a true b-team ahead of 2021 in order to maintain their rate of testing and development under the incoming budget caps.
It's easy to see how Frank could think, I turned a back of the grid, flat broke team into the best team in the world. I've done it once so I can do it again. Maybe he could, I don't think he can but maybe he does. Not being an insider it's impossible to know what influence Frank still has.
I think one thing he won't do is sell the team.
TheDeuce said:
Not only that, but what is she saying about her own two drivers? Is she blaming them for the cars sh*tty performance? She has a background in PR and marketing, it's not exactly shining through..
The irony being, that if Lewis had said yes, it wouldn't really help them. He's an excellent driver, Lewis - but he's not a magician. No one is getting that car off the back row.
Both Williams drivers have said several times that they could push more but if they do, the car becomes unpredictable and lets them down. Then it spins off or goes over the kerbs and there is damage, not allowed because of spares issues... It's beyond tragic. A Jedi driver couldn't find enough pace in that car to make it competitive. That's the reality and it really does make me itch when she makes jokes about it.
I think you are reading too much into it. Only one car can win a race. And the ods of Lewis not winning the british GP??The irony being, that if Lewis had said yes, it wouldn't really help them. He's an excellent driver, Lewis - but he's not a magician. No one is getting that car off the back row.
Both Williams drivers have said several times that they could push more but if they do, the car becomes unpredictable and lets them down. Then it spins off or goes over the kerbs and there is damage, not allowed because of spares issues... It's beyond tragic. A Jedi driver couldn't find enough pace in that car to make it competitive. That's the reality and it really does make me itch when she makes jokes about it.
The second part is interesting. Not that he would, but if Lewis went to a back marker team: williams, haas, racing point etc, he would bring massive cash with him. And maybe some key personnel too. How long before that makes a difference and they start winning??
The new regs as shown so far for 2021 look promising for williams. All those twiddly bits that only the best and richest teams can get right will be gone.
Cars will stick to the road due to the return of ground effect.
The only fly in the ointment would appear to be Mclaren angling for a supply of Mercedes engines.
racing point and williams have been poor lately so will one of them lose their supply as mercedes may like a team that pushes them to improve.
A bit like what mclaren is doing for renaults effort.
Cars will stick to the road due to the return of ground effect.
The only fly in the ointment would appear to be Mclaren angling for a supply of Mercedes engines.
racing point and williams have been poor lately so will one of them lose their supply as mercedes may like a team that pushes them to improve.
A bit like what mclaren is doing for renaults effort.
williamp said:
The second part is interesting. Not that he would, but if Lewis went to a back marker team: williams, haas, racing point etc, he would bring massive cash with him. And maybe some key personnel too. How long before that makes a difference and they start winning??
After Hill to Arrows and Alonso to McLaren I can't see anyone trying that again. 
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