Williams F1

Author
Discussion

The Moose

17,312 posts

148 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
I wonder when Mercedes will buy Williams as a second or b team.

Smart F1 anyone?!

TheDeuce

617 posts

5 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Well, it's 1pm. Moment of truth for this car coming up. And I include a last minute announced delay until tomorrow as a form of truth too wink

I'm really keen to see it after all this debate though.

Mr Pointy

3,070 posts

98 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Mr Pointy said:
Williams staff "close to mutiny" according to the Telegraph:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2019/02/19/w...
The scariest part of that story "Frank Williams has been overseeing development on a day to day basis".

How is that supposed to be useful? Might as well have Clive Sinclair standing over the apple techs as they develop the latest smart phone.

The old guard may indeed have a lot of relevant wisdom, and can often I'm sure be a useful ear and offer some support. But on a day to day basis, they do not need to be monitoring all of everything. They certainly don't need to be around the younger Claire on a day to day basis, she needs to take global control for real.

The whole setup, nice as it sounds in theory, just cannot be conducive to cutting edge thinking in modern F1 terms.
It's a common trait amongst many single-owner businesses. It's their money, they built it up & they simply cannot accept that times have changed & they are no longer the best person to run the company. Many simply disappear into bankruptcy although Williams may have enough assets to make it worth something.

Paul578

43 posts

46 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
The Moose said:
I wonder when Mercedes will buy Williams as a second or b team.

Smart F1 anyone?!
Not a chance, Frank Williams is Williams and the situation isn't going to change whilst he's alive.
Simply put Mercedes F1 don't have the assets / cash to do so, didn't Norbert Haug / Ross Brawn setup the team as an autonomously run division of Daimler to reduce their risk? Besides I think Toto will work out the politics if the strategy of Red Bull & Ferrari's B-team ploy will have any adverse affects on post-2021 F1.

TheDeuce

617 posts

5 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Mr Pointy said:
It's a common trait amongst many single-owner businesses. It's their money, they built it up & they simply cannot accept that times have changed & they are no longer the best person to run the company. Many simply disappear into bankruptcy although Williams may have enough assets to make it worth something.
It's what I call corner shop syndrome lol.

When you find the local shopkeeper drinking their sorrows in the local pub, complaining the village doesn't support the shop and they should or they will lose it! So you decide to pop in one evening instead of going to the cheaper supermarket, and you hand over your credit card... "Oh for anything under £10 we charge 50p per transaction". And you just know the problem is they haven't bothered to seek better rates for card processing, and that they're so out of touch that they don't realise how few people carry cash. To them, they see it as perfectly sensible people would carry cash, they did 20 years ago!!

And before long they become negative at work, about their work - blame, blame, blame.. complain, complain blah blah.

If you fall out of date, nothing to be ashamed of. But you have both a legal and moral responsibility if you run a business to ensure it's served by you as best as possible, even if that means taking yourself out of it.
Advertisement

TheDeuce

617 posts

5 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
The screens are gone, the car is rolled out!!!

thegreenhell

5,189 posts

158 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
The Moose said:
I wonder when Mercedes will buy Williams as a second or b team.

Smart F1 anyone?!
Mercedes don't even own all of their own team. Wolff and Lauda between them own about 40% of it.

StevieBee

7,218 posts

194 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
If you fall out of date, nothing to be ashamed of. But you have both a legal and moral responsibility if you run a business to ensure it's served by you as best as possible, even if that means taking yourself out of it.
Providing you run the business legally and in accordance to the relevant regulations, then you can do what the blooming heck you like with your own business, including running it into the ground if you so wish. If you own less than 51% of it, other shareholders may decide to remove you and have the power to do so but otherwise, it's down to the owner how things are done and what they do.

Morally, things can be a bit ambiguous. If you're having to make suppliers wait months and months for payment yet go out and sign up a new lease of on Veyron, then one might question the morals that drive that. But the legals and regulations in the main, dial out much of this anyway.

We can sit here on our ivory keyboards and pontificate expert business advice to anyone but if I were Frank, having given so much of my life (in time and physical) to the company, to have invested so much energy and emotion into it and with absolutely nothing else to do, I'm fairly sure I'd be doing no different to what he is doing.

TheDeuce

617 posts

5 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
We can sit here on our ivory keyboards and pontificate expert business advice to anyone but if I were Frank, having given so much of my life (in time and physical) to the company, to have invested so much energy and emotion into it and with absolutely nothing else to do, I'm fairly sure I'd be doing no different to what he is doing.
If that's all he wants to do, then I agree. If he doesn't care if it gets run to the ground, in that sense, it literally is his business. He also has to care about Claire's career and future ideally... But I suppose that's his business too.

At the end of the day he can do what he wants and doesn't owe it to any of us to do whatever we might think he should do. That doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss/debate and occasionally deride it though. What he wants to do is run a team in a global sport, so naturally part of that is a few million differing points of views coming back at him and his team.

thegreenhell

5,189 posts

158 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
FW may be the TP and majority shareholder (just), but the group is also listed on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange, and the group CEO and other shareholders may not be be so accepting of him 'running it into the ground if he wishes'.

HighwayStar

2,223 posts

83 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Mr Pointy said:
Williams staff "close to mutiny" according to the Telegraph:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2019/02/19/w...
The scariest part of that story "Frank Williams has been overseeing development on a day to day basis".

How is that supposed to be useful? Might as well have Clive Sinclair standing over the apple techs as they develop the latest smart phone.

The old guard may indeed have a lot of relevant wisdom, and can often I'm sure be a useful ear and offer some support. But on a day to day basis, they do not need to be monitoring all of everything. They certainly don't need to be around the younger Claire on a day to day basis, she needs to take global control for real.

The whole setup, nice as it sounds in theory, just cannot be conducive to cutting edge thinking in modern F1 terms.
Maybe I just don’t want to believe it but, I seriously doubt Frank is overseeing anything, let alone development, on a daily basis.

Clearly all is not well at Williams though.

tigerkoi

2,588 posts

137 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
FW may be the TP and majority shareholder (just), but the group is also listed on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange, and the group CEO and other shareholders may not be be so accepting of him 'running it into the ground if he wishes'.
You and The Deuce are right/correct.

Williams F1 is a PLC and there’s the fiduciary responsibilities that go with that.

I think their one year share performance is pretty lousy, shedding what, 18%? Frank/Claire can run the show into the ground, but other shareholders might not be too happy about it.

Too many people who’ve run their own little businesses often hit a wall when they don’t want to accept, or don’t realise, that maybe they’re becoming the problem or impediment to that next level of growth, or even keeping the doors open.

Most who enjoy studying/working on distressed organisations, will see some classic signs with Williams right now.

As an aside, who’s finding the commentary & chatter on Sky coverage of the testing far more entertaining and deviating than what we’ve been used to on race days for the last few years?

TheDeuce

617 posts

5 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
tigerkoi said:
You and The Deuce are right/correct.

Williams F1 is a PLC and there’s the fiduciary responsibilities that go with that.

I think their one year share performance is pretty lousy, shedding what, 18%? Frank/Claire can run the show into the ground, but other shareholders might not be too happy about it.

Too many people who’ve run their own little businesses often hit a wall when they don’t want to accept, or don’t realise, that maybe they’re becoming the problem or impediment to that next level of growth, or even keeping the doors open.

Most who enjoy studying/working on distressed organisations, will see some classic signs with Williams right now.

As an aside, who’s finding the commentary & chatter on Sky coverage of the testing far more entertaining and deviating than what we’ve been used to on race days for the last few years?
I wasn't going to push the point of legal requirement to act in the best interests of the shareholder, but yes of course - it's a thing. Albeit hard to prove, especially with a business that involves risk taking and gambling, such as F1.

I certainly see the signs at Williams. It's hard to go into the detail on this forum, it's a complex subject and many of the signs are very subtle. But with enough exposure to business, you get used to spotting people posturing and trying to present a turd of a situation in a somewhat positive light. Frankly one sign I see right now is denial coming from Claire - albeit her interview earlier she managed to do a great job of appearing very candid about it all. The denial I sense is more fundamental, it's in the 'hands off' attitude she is keen to take. Often if you sense something isn't going well, it's very tempting to simply not ask too many questions. Especially if Frank is in the background saying everything will be good if it's done the way he thinks is right. It makes for a complex situation she may simply resist delving into too deeply.

As for the Sky coverage, I think it's been excellent! The chatter during the periods there is no real sport to discuss has been entertaining. Also the various minor disagreements they have on certain subjects that has broken out into near full on arguments - if only to pass the time smile Not least the enduring question - is the Ferrari orange!?

TheDeuce

617 posts

5 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Oh news update from Sky!

Williams have just admitted they haven't got several components yet, so they're unable to do any actual aero testing. The car is apparently just in it's basic form, with no real adjustment possible.

In other words, short of driving around 6 seconds off the pace and testing reliability under gentle driving, they're a little stuck right now. tongue out

Fortitude

327 posts

131 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Williams is still waiting for parts to start aero-tests

16:57 - Williams still can not start full test work since not all parts have arrived.

The British team did not get the new FW42 ready in time for the start of the first winter test in Barcelona. The iconic team only started the track for the first time in the afternoon of the third day. Rookie George Russell got the honor to make the first meters. However, an extensive test program can not be started yet, because the team is still waiting for parts from the factory in Grove.

Acting team boss Claire Williams gave an explanation: "Later on some parts will be added later on, so we can really concentrate on our aero program on Thursday, until we can test some other things." Williams acknowledged that it was a huge relief when her new pupil drove out of the pit box: "It has been incredibly difficult for everyone on the team - this did not happen consciously, nobody wanted this and I can not put into words how hard this has been It was a relief when the car left the garage. "

The team boss is confident that the team can produce sufficient parts and a healthy dose of spare material for two cars for the season opener in Melbourne. The consequences of the difficult start of the test season will also only come to light: "It is still early, we have missed two test days, which is not ideal, there are many potential kilometers." Only later will we know what the impact will be. We will make every effort to travel to Australia in the best possible form. "

With the collaboration of Scott Mitchell

https://www.gpupdate.net/nl/f1-nieuws/370127/willi...

Fortitude

327 posts

131 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Found these times for the Wednesday practice;

1. K. Räikkönen 1:17:762 138 laps

2. S. Vettel 1:18:350 134 laps

3. M. Verstappen 1:18:787 95 laps

4. N. Hülkenberg 1:18:800 63 laps

5. D. Kvyat 1:18:897 128 laps

6. R. Grosjean 1:19:060 55 laps

7. P. Fittipaldi 1:19:249 48 laps

8. C. Sainz 1:19:354 90 laps

9. D. Ricciardo 1:19:775 74 laps

10. S. Pérez 1:20:102 67 laps

11. V. Bottas 1:20:693 88 laps

12. L. Hamilton 1:20:818 85 laps

13. G. Russell 1:25:625 21 laps

TheDeuce

617 posts

5 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Actually,

Kvyat just ran 1:17.704
Ricciardo 1:18.164

Fortitude

327 posts

131 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
Actually,

Kvyat just ran 1:17.704 134 laps
Ricciardo 1:18.164 80 laps
Yes, the feed I am looking at, has changed as well...

tigerkoi

2,588 posts

137 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
I wasn't going to push the point of legal requirement to act in the best interests of the shareholder, but yes of course - it's a thing. Albeit hard to prove, especially with a business that involves risk taking and gambling, such as F1.

I certainly see the signs at Williams. It's hard to go into the detail on this forum, it's a complex subject and many of the signs are very subtle. But with enough exposure to business, you get used to spotting people posturing and trying to present a turd of a situation in a somewhat positive light. Frankly one sign I see right now is denial coming from Claire - albeit her interview earlier she managed to do a great job of appearing very candid about it all. The denial I sense is more fundamental, it's in the 'hands off' attitude she is keen to take. Often if you sense something isn't going well, it's very tempting to simply not ask too many questions. Especially if Frank is in the background saying everything will be good if it's done the way he thinks is right. It makes for a complex situation she may simply resist delving into too deeply.

As for the Sky coverage, I think it's been excellent! The chatter during the periods there is no real sport to discuss has been entertaining. Also the various minor disagreements they have on certain subjects that has broken out into near full on arguments - if only to pass the time smile Not least the enduring question - is the Ferrari orange!?
yes
You’re right: it is a dense, intricate situation with family, legacy, competitiveness all swirled into one, and just not easy to alliterate into a few short sentences on a forum. But it’s good and fair to discuss anyway, as all the intrigue, politics, and business aspects of F1 helps make it the enthralling sport it is!

The Ferrari is ORANGE! smile

I think the Haas is easily the best looking car; the colourways and graphics are just spot on.



Galileo

Original Poster:

3,099 posts

157 months

Wednesday 20th February
quotequote all
Does anyone know why the parts haven't turned up on time?