Discussion
tigerkoi said:
She’s no dum-dum. Likely had a very cosy upbringing, boarding school, Uni etc. It’s not like there’s just a couple of rocks rattling around her head. But she has zero formal knowledge of engineering, business operations, or any other credible skills you’d need to lead something like an F1 team. In a parallel universe there’s nil chance someone like her would be in charge of the operation. I can imagine a great deal of the staff must struggle to identify with her management and leadership, simply because she hasn’t ‘done it’ and is basically the kid of the founder.
She’s only there due to the benevolence of her old man, and some dealmaking/offloading by Toto.
Other than that she wouldn’t be there.
I grant you things have seemed much worse since she’s taken over, but it’s not like Williams have been consistently pulling up trees every year since 1997 or anything. It’s been a long decline, and now a bit of a tailspin.
It’s not like we’re too disagreed or anything. I’m merely saying Frank is the bigger issue if *you think about it.
Genuinely I like her. Weirdly I came from a family business background that I walked away from on the 9th yr of my father saying he’d actually relinquish control and never did - it’s fShe’s only there due to the benevolence of her old man, and some dealmaking/offloading by Toto.
Other than that she wouldn’t be there.
I grant you things have seemed much worse since she’s taken over, but it’s not like Williams have been consistently pulling up trees every year since 1997 or anything. It’s been a long decline, and now a bit of a tailspin.
It’s not like we’re too disagreed or anything. I’m merely saying Frank is the bigger issue if *you think about it.
- you, generally, not you, you
king hard as you’re trying to push ahead whilst appeasing the past. In F1 there is no past. That's for the history books. In the here and now, current performance is all that matters. Sponsors want a car that's challenging others on some level.
RoKiTs logo will, for all of 2019, only be shown occasionally. And when it is shown it will be accompanied by a commentator saying how hopeless it all is.
Just sell already.
RoKiTs logo will, for all of 2019, only be shown occasionally. And when it is shown it will be accompanied by a commentator saying how hopeless it all is.
Just sell already.
Edited by TheDeuce on Saturday 16th March 20:55
On the subject of RoKit - interestingly their logo doesn't feature on this season's Williams F1 official replica teamwear.
https://m.shop.williamsf1.com/stores/williams/mobi...
https://m.shop.williamsf1.com/stores/williams/mobi...
Speed Badger said:
On the subject of RoKit - interestingly their logo doesn't feature on this season's Williams F1 official replica teamwear.
https://m.shop.williamsf1.com/stores/williams/mobi...
Presumably the sponsorship deal turned up after the merchandise had been signed-off.https://m.shop.williamsf1.com/stores/williams/mobi...
Speed Badger said:
On the subject of RoKit - interestingly their logo doesn't feature on this season's Williams F1 official replica teamwear.
https://m.shop.williamsf1.com/stores/williams/mobi...
That might simply be an option that Williams put a price against, that roKit didn't choose to pay. I wouldn't read too much into it.https://m.shop.williamsf1.com/stores/williams/mobi...
Although I will say it's an odd place to have the logo omitted.
skwdenyer said:
Speed Badger said:
On the subject of RoKit - interestingly their logo doesn't feature on this season's Williams F1 official replica teamwear.
https://m.shop.williamsf1.com/stores/williams/mobi...
Presumably the sponsorship deal turned up after the merchandise had been signed-off.https://m.shop.williamsf1.com/stores/williams/mobi...
Petrus1983 said:
Genuinely I like her. Weirdly I came from a family business background that I walked away from on the 9th yr of my father saying he’d actually relinquish control and never did - it’s fking hard as you’re trying to push ahead whilst appeasing the past.
I think she’s probably alright interpersonally and in most interviews seemed to have a residue of EQ that makes her reasonably aware of how things sit in reality.king hard as you’re trying to push ahead whilst appeasing the past. Very interesting what you mention about your own family business: must have been hugely frustrating and tough dynamically.
If you google rokit, the first result is a clothing retailer (not the sponsor), and the second result (is the sponsor) says 'Launching soon'.
Bit like Rich Energy, where do the companies get the cash to sponsor an F1 team from without a very successful product which is bringing in profits?!
Bit like Rich Energy, where do the companies get the cash to sponsor an F1 team from without a very successful product which is bringing in profits?!
Condi said:
If you google rokit, the first result is a clothing retailer (not the sponsor), and the second result (is the sponsor) says 'Launching soon'.
Bit like Rich Energy, where do the companies get the cash to sponsor an F1 team from without a very successful product which is bringing in profits?!
I think the theory is, where do they get a very successful product without advertising it in the first place. So they sponsor.Bit like Rich Energy, where do the companies get the cash to sponsor an F1 team from without a very successful product which is bringing in profits?!
It's just unfortunate that the brand "roKit" conjours up images of rocket speed, whilst being attached to a car that is famous for being slower than anyone else.
TheDeuce said:
Condi said:
If you google rokit, the first result is a clothing retailer (not the sponsor), and the second result (is the sponsor) says 'Launching soon'.
Bit like Rich Energy, where do the companies get the cash to sponsor an F1 team from without a very successful product which is bringing in profits?!
I think the theory is, where do they get a very successful product without advertising it in the first place. So they sponsor.Bit like Rich Energy, where do the companies get the cash to sponsor an F1 team from without a very successful product which is bringing in profits?!
It's just unfortunate that the brand "roKit" conjours up images of rocket speed, whilst being attached to a car that is famous for being slower than anyone else.
It’s like Kendrick, DeJoria, and the missing ZZ Top bandmate all heard the same whispered dream, like Kevin Costner: “....sponsor it and they will come....”
I think what’s especially egregious is that Rich Energy (and RokIT) can’t even be bothered to hawk around some units of their gear up and down the pitlane at the GP so far. The very least I’d have expected was for Rich Energy guy to have been wandering around the paddock like some lost frat boy looking for the female dorm with a few tins under his arm.
Appalling.
tigerkoi said:
Petrus1983 said:
Genuinely I like her. Weirdly I came from a family business background that I walked away from on the 9th yr of my father saying he’d actually relinquish control and never did - it’s fking hard as you’re trying to push ahead whilst appeasing the past.
I think she’s probably alright interpersonally and in most interviews seemed to have a residue of EQ that makes her reasonably aware of how things sit in reality.king hard as you’re trying to push ahead whilst appeasing the past. Very interesting what you mention about your own family business: must have been hugely frustrating and tough dynamically.
In round terms, since she ‘took over’ the team have steadily slipped down the table and scored fewer and fewer WCC points. It doesn’t indicate competency.
Since ‘14 when they had a huge advantage over many others, with the MB engine, they’ve gradually fallen behind, well, just about everyone.
All Claire has done is offer platitudes and lobby for budget cuts, which rather misses the point. It's not just about money, it’s sometimes about what you do with the money.
And if you’re being prevented from doing what you should, especially if you know what you should be doing, you should get out as soon as that becomes clear, family business or not.
tigerkoi said:
Yeah, I think it’s such an indictment as to how some people think genuine business should be conducted these days.
It’s like Kendrick, DeJoria, and the missing ZZ Top bandmate all heard the same whispered dream, like Kevin Costner: “....sponsor it and they will come....”
I think what’s especially egregious is that Rich Energy (and RokIT) can’t even be bothered to hawk around some units of their gear up and down the pitlane at the GP so far. The very least I’d have expected was for Rich Energy guy to have been wandering around the paddock like some lost frat boy looking for the female dorm with a few tins under his arm.
Appalling.
It's just how it's done these days. You can take the traditional route where you create a product with some merit and spread it about a bit until it sells on merit. Or... You can just create a brand with a message, and stick millions behind it. If the brand is well received, you triple the budget and create an actual product to sell under that brand It’s like Kendrick, DeJoria, and the missing ZZ Top bandmate all heard the same whispered dream, like Kevin Costner: “....sponsor it and they will come....”
I think what’s especially egregious is that Rich Energy (and RokIT) can’t even be bothered to hawk around some units of their gear up and down the pitlane at the GP so far. The very least I’d have expected was for Rich Energy guy to have been wandering around the paddock like some lost frat boy looking for the female dorm with a few tins under his arm.
Appalling.
It's lazy business, just throw huge amounts of money at different things, you lose it all 9 times out of 10, but for the 1 time it sticks you pile in the investment and the profits write off the previous 9 losses. You only lose once, but you can win indefinitely. This is why they say money makes money, it really can.
On the downside, despite being rich you end up as a seriously dis-interesting b
d. But, nonetheless, some of those dis-interesting bds own the super-yachts we see at Monaco.REALIST123 said:
tigerkoi said:
Petrus1983 said:
Genuinely I like her. Weirdly I came from a family business background that I walked away from on the 9th yr of my father saying he’d actually relinquish control and never did - it’s fking hard as you’re trying to push ahead whilst appeasing the past.
I think she’s probably alright interpersonally and in most interviews seemed to have a residue of EQ that makes her reasonably aware of how things sit in reality.king hard as you’re trying to push ahead whilst appeasing the past. Very interesting what you mention about your own family business: must have been hugely frustrating and tough dynamically.
In round terms, since she ‘took over’ the team have steadily slipped down the table and scored fewer and fewer WCC points. It doesn’t indicate competency.
Since ‘14 when they had a huge advantage over many others, with the MB engine, they’ve gradually fallen behind, well, just about everyone.
All Claire has done is offer platitudes and lobby for budget cuts, which rather misses the point. It's not just about money, it’s sometimes about what you do with the money.
And if you’re being prevented from doing what you should, especially if you know what you should be doing, you should get out as soon as that becomes clear, family business or not.
I’m not sure anyone has ever placed much onus on her ‘likeability’ being indicative of whether she should be in the top spot or not. Read the thread: the vast majority of us think she’s overmatched ability-wise, and have gone round in circles repeating ourselves.
tigerkoi said:
Errrr, I think we’ve done this one to the death!
I’m not sure anyone has ever placed much onus on her ‘likeability’ being indicative of whether she should be in the top spot or not. Read the thread: the vast majority of us think she’s overmatched ability-wise, and have gone round in circles repeating ourselves.
So true! This must be round 4 of "what's wrong at Williams?"I’m not sure anyone has ever placed much onus on her ‘likeability’ being indicative of whether she should be in the top spot or not. Read the thread: the vast majority of us think she’s overmatched ability-wise, and have gone round in circles repeating ourselves.
It's a sport, a spectacle. There is more than enough to discuss just watching their exploits on track right now. And tomorrow, they will find a new way to entertain/disappoint/bewilder us all. I'm not sure exactly what, but they will find a way of raising more unwanted headlines somehow tomorrow.
On another note, the Williams family might be throwing the team away with their stubbornness - but it is their business, in the end that makes it their business. Got to remember that Frank built it, and can't really be criticised for breaking it if maintaining control is his preference. We're just here to see the results. Frank and Claire don't owe us a functional Williams racing team.
TheDeuce said:
So true! This must be round 4 of "what's wrong at Williams?"
It's a sport, a spectacle. There is more than enough to discuss just watching their exploits on track right now. And tomorrow, they will find a new way to entertain/disappoint/bewilder us all. I'm not sure exactly what, but they will find a way of raising more unwanted headlines somehow tomorrow.
On another note, the Williams family might be throwing the team away with their stubbornness - but it is their business, in the end that makes it their business. Got to remember that Frank built it, and can't really be criticised for breaking it if maintaining control is his preference. We're just here to see the results. Frank and Claire don't owe us a functional Williams racing team.
Amen to that.It's a sport, a spectacle. There is more than enough to discuss just watching their exploits on track right now. And tomorrow, they will find a new way to entertain/disappoint/bewilder us all. I'm not sure exactly what, but they will find a way of raising more unwanted headlines somehow tomorrow.
On another note, the Williams family might be throwing the team away with their stubbornness - but it is their business, in the end that makes it their business. Got to remember that Frank built it, and can't really be criticised for breaking it if maintaining control is his preference. We're just here to see the results. Frank and Claire don't owe us a functional Williams racing team.
I might place a bet though on when it’ll be time for the viaticum!
tigerkoi said:
Amen to that.
I might place a bet though on when it’ll be time for the viaticum!
That's a choice word!! Do you mean Frank should be part of the last decisions about Williams direction ahead of letting go? Or that preparations should be made ahead of him deciding to let go?I might place a bet though on when it’ll be time for the viaticum!
I like to believe that the lawyers and investors are already considering how the transition might happen, even though no one is discussing it just yet.
TheDeuce said:
tigerkoi said:
Amen to that.
I might place a bet though on when it’ll be time for the viaticum!
That's a choice word!! Do you mean Frank should be part of the last decisions about Williams direction ahead of letting go? Or that preparations should be made ahead of him deciding to let go?I might place a bet though on when it’ll be time for the viaticum!
I like to believe that the lawyers and investors are already considering how the transition might happen, even though no one is discussing it just yet.
I’m just mischievous with words. I meant what odds would I get for when it’s last rites for the team. When will Williams F1 not be Williams anymore, say 2020, 2025, whatever, etc.
Then again, there’s nothing much more surprising in sport than the Lazarus act
tigerkoi said:
Oh no!
I’m just mischievous with words. I meant what odds would I get for when it’s last rites for the team. When will Williams F1 not be Williams anymore, say 2020, 2025, whatever, etc.
Then again, there’s nothing much more surprising in sport than the Lazarus act
I think conversation must already be underway outside of Williams. It's just a matter of time before someone breaks the news to Frank and Claire that it's financially totally impossible for them to compete in another season.I’m just mischievous with words. I meant what odds would I get for when it’s last rites for the team. When will Williams F1 not be Williams anymore, say 2020, 2025, whatever, etc.
Then again, there’s nothing much more surprising in sport than the Lazarus act
The moment there is a shift in control I think the team will pick up sponsorship relatively easily - there will be some possibility of an upward turn under new control, so at least it's a gamble that could pay off. As it is, each season is a foregone conclusion.
tigerkoi said:
Oh no!
I’m just mischievous with words. I meant what odds would I get for when it’s last rites for the team. When will Williams F1 not be Williams anymore, say 2020, 2025, whatever, etc.
Then again, there’s nothing much more surprising in sport than the Lazarus act
I think conversation must already be underway outside of Williams. It's just a matter of time before someone breaks the news to Frank and Claire that it's financially totally impossible for them to compete in another season. Maybe next year it could happen, maybe people want to see the final 2021 rules before plotting a future for the team.I’m just mischievous with words. I meant what odds would I get for when it’s last rites for the team. When will Williams F1 not be Williams anymore, say 2020, 2025, whatever, etc.
Then again, there’s nothing much more surprising in sport than the Lazarus act
The moment there is a shift in control I think the team will pick up sponsorship relatively easily - there will be some possibility of an upward turn under new control, so at least it's a gamble that could pay off. As it is, each season is a foregone conclusion.
TheDeuce said:
tigerkoi said:
Oh no!
I’m just mischievous with words. I meant what odds would I get for when it’s last rites for the team. When will Williams F1 not be Williams anymore, say 2020, 2025, whatever, etc.
Then again, there’s nothing much more surprising in sport than the Lazarus act
I think conversation must already be underway outside of Williams. It's just a matter of time before someone breaks the news to Frank and Claire that it's financially totally impossible for them to compete in another season. Maybe next year it could happen, maybe people want to see the final 2021 rules before plotting a future for the team.I’m just mischievous with words. I meant what odds would I get for when it’s last rites for the team. When will Williams F1 not be Williams anymore, say 2020, 2025, whatever, etc.
Then again, there’s nothing much more surprising in sport than the Lazarus act
The moment there is a shift in control I think the team will pick up sponsorship relatively easily - there will be some possibility of an upward turn under new control, so at least it's a gamble that could pay off. As it is, each season is a foregone conclusion.
Like Rockefeller once said, “...you must have a larger ambition.”
Williams is stymied because their short-to-mid term ambition isn’t about achieving anymore, but rather that their competition is dragged down to their level. Betting on a budget cap or Liberty showing they’re anything more than three stooges with marketing plan just telegraphs weakness.
I’d be interested to see if Brad Hollinger becomes more prominent and expressive in the next 18 months or so over preserving shareholder value.
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