Discussion
A15 said:
TheDeuce said:
I must have blinked and missed something towards the end of the race. Kubica was 30 seconds behind Russell, then suddenly just behind him, then slipped back 15 seconds in 4 laps.
What happened?
Russell made an extra pit stop and then pulled away on new soft tyres. What happened?
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Went to an evening with rob smedley last night (many thanks to a PH’r who flagged up the event), he was quite open about the whole situation.
By the time you pay the money to get out of bed (ie, pay the rent, rates, wages and logistics to attend the races) Williams have a minuscule budget to developer the car.
In his words, ‘18 was completely predicted and ‘19 the same and if you weren’t part of the solution you’re part of the problem so he quit.
He made it sound as though everyone knows they’re set up to fail but powerless to stop it happening so morale must be shattered.
I still can’t help feeling they’re going through the motions, safe in the knowledge that liberty can’t let them fail.
I think that LoH’s post explains everything we need to know. It’s all about survival, racing for points is not part of the equation. Making it to 2021 is their only objective.By the time you pay the money to get out of bed (ie, pay the rent, rates, wages and logistics to attend the races) Williams have a minuscule budget to developer the car.
In his words, ‘18 was completely predicted and ‘19 the same and if you weren’t part of the solution you’re part of the problem so he quit.
He made it sound as though everyone knows they’re set up to fail but powerless to stop it happening so morale must be shattered.
I still can’t help feeling they’re going through the motions, safe in the knowledge that liberty can’t let them fail.
rdjohn said:
I think that LoH’s post explains everything we need to know. It’s all about survival, racing for points is not part of the equation. Making it to 2021 is their only objective.
Their only objective or, their only attainable target right now. Maybe both.I'm so far from convinced that 2021 will be the 'table leveller' that Claire seems to think it will be. Even if it one day could be, it will take a good couple of years of the bigger teams finding ways to bend the rules before the loopholes can start to be closed up.
Then there is the problem of getting the sponsorship/investment to actually reach the budget cap, not easy for them. And the reality that not all of their problems are budget related in the first place.
It's certainly going to be interesting to see what happens in 2021. It's also certainly going to be dull watching them limp through seasons until then.
A15 said:
TheDeuce said:
That's what I missed then. So on the fresher tyres he managed to be about 4 seconds a lap faster than his team mate... Must have been some pretty special tyres!
Well, Russell had to pit again as he couldn't one-stop like Kubica could.Or more likely, Kubica's tyres were totally dead at that point, he was probably dropping back as fast as Russell was pulling away.
His race overall wasn't good though. He was at least half a second behind most laps from the start. And the spin before the start..
TheDeuce said:
I understand that. It's just he pulled away from Kubica at an unbelievable rate once he had pitted.
Or more likely, Kubica's tyres were totally dead at that point, he was probably dropping back as fast as Russell was pulling away.
His race overall wasn't good though. He was at least half a second behind most laps from the start. And the spin before the start..
Driving a car with an 8% aero imbalance will do that. Because of this, Russell can push more, possibly at the expense of tyre life. Verstappen also spun before the start, if you recall. Or more likely, Kubica's tyres were totally dead at that point, he was probably dropping back as fast as Russell was pulling away.
His race overall wasn't good though. He was at least half a second behind most laps from the start. And the spin before the start..
A15 said:
Driving a car with an 8% aero imbalance will do that. Because of this, Russell can push more, possibly at the expense of tyre life. Verstappen also spun before the start, if you recall.
Yea I know it's far from clear cut. I didn't see verstappen spin before the start, I saw him spin after the previous race though.I normally make a drink during formation lap, going to have to start watching it!
A15 said:
TheDeuce said:
Yea I know it's far from clear cut. I didn't see verstappen spin before the start, I saw him spin after the previous race though.
I normally make a drink during formation lap, going to have to start watching it!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=K3iI05ozVhYI normally make a drink during formation lap, going to have to start watching it!
Technically he's spun twice between races then
(counting the spin after Bahrain).TheDeuce said:
I'm so far from convinced that 2021 will be the 'table leveller' that Claire seems to think it will be. Even if it one day could be, it will take a good couple of years of the bigger teams finding ways to bend the rules before the loopholes can start to be closed up.
I'm with you in that a change of regulations won't change much. The teams with money will be able to field cars that are much better. Their only hope is that a team will go down the wrong route, but at the moment the odds are favouring Williams to be that team. Car-Matt said:
Another embarrassment for Kubica today. Not a good weekend at all for Williams. I wonder when they are planning the first set of upgrades/fixes because until then nothing will change
The car is the problem and sadly will remain so for the rest of this year. Last or second last. The team won’t fix it for this year.Car-Matt said:
Another embarrassment for Kubica today. Not a good weekend at all for Williams. I wonder when they are planning the first set of upgrades/fixes because until then nothing will change
But, do we know if they’ve got a baseline now for both cars? Because won’t just adding upgrades and fixes merely create more forks of uncertainty if not so?tigerkoi said:
Car-Matt said:
Another embarrassment for Kubica today. Not a good weekend at all for Williams. I wonder when they are planning the first set of upgrades/fixes because until then nothing will change
But, do we know if they’ve got a baseline now for both cars? Because won’t just adding upgrades and fixes merely create more forks of uncertainty if not so?They did however recently have both drivers use the same car at testing, and both ran the same times.. so it looks like both drivers are at least good enough to get the most out of whatever Williams car they're in. That's all we 'know' about kubica's performance relative to Russell.
Looking at the timings I get the impression kubica loses race pace towards the end of a race to a greater extent than Russell, but that too could be down to excessive tyre wear on his car.
There is a lot that makes it look like kubica is the slower driver, but none of it is entirely conclusive - that's the reality. I personally think he probably is and it's unlikely that in all respects his car is consistently worse than Russells. Its also very likely that after such a long break, his age, a weak arm and learning to drive in a different era, he would struggle a little more than Russell.
The good news is it's all irrelevant anyway. He bought that seat, he could bumble round in 3rd with the radio tuned to classic FM and he's not going to lose the seat.
TheDeuce said:
No baseline I don't think, they said it would take months to figure out and correct whatever was causing the different characteristics of each car. Which basically means they won't be doing it. Honestly, what is the point?
They did however recently have both drivers use the same car at testing, and both ran the same times.. so it looks like both drivers are at least good enough to get the most out of whatever Williams car they're in. That's all we 'know' about kubica's performance relative to Russell.
Looking at the timings I get the impression kubica loses race pace towards the end of a race to a greater extent than Russell, but that too could be down to excessive tyre wear on his car.
There is a lot that makes it look like kubica is the slower driver, but none of it is entirely conclusive - that's the reality. I personally think he probably is and it's unlikely that in all respects his car is consistently worse than Russells. Its also very likely that after such a long break, his age, a weak arm and learning to drive in a different era, he would struggle a little more than Russell.
The good news is it's all irrelevant anyway. He bought that seat, he could bumble round in 3rd with the radio tuned to classic FM and he's not going to lose the seat.
About the Bahrain test in Kubica's car:They did however recently have both drivers use the same car at testing, and both ran the same times.. so it looks like both drivers are at least good enough to get the most out of whatever Williams car they're in. That's all we 'know' about kubica's performance relative to Russell.
Looking at the timings I get the impression kubica loses race pace towards the end of a race to a greater extent than Russell, but that too could be down to excessive tyre wear on his car.
There is a lot that makes it look like kubica is the slower driver, but none of it is entirely conclusive - that's the reality. I personally think he probably is and it's unlikely that in all respects his car is consistently worse than Russells. Its also very likely that after such a long break, his age, a weak arm and learning to drive in a different era, he would struggle a little more than Russell.
The good news is it's all irrelevant anyway. He bought that seat, he could bumble round in 3rd with the radio tuned to classic FM and he's not going to lose the seat.
Russell 1:33.682
Kubica 1:33.290
A fair difference there.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff