The Official F1 2020 silly season *contains speculation*

[CoolHands]

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

[Adrian W]

Graveworm said:

Adrian W said:

Another one with a rich daddy gets a drive

You can understand why Williams might want this. He is probably there on merit. I wonder what it means for Mclaren?

Maybe Daddy is selling £130 million of shares

[rdjohn]

Adrian W said:

Maybe Daddy is selling £130 million of shares

Speaking of which, and this is hot news

Despite being slower than his journeyman teammate, I think that Lance Stroll will retain his seat at Racing Point next year.

[thegreenhell]

Adrian W said:

Graveworm said:

Adrian W said:

Another one with a rich daddy gets a drive

You can understand why Williams might want this. He is probably there on merit. I wonder what it means for Mclaren?

Maybe Daddy is selling £130 million of shares

His shareholding is in McLaren Group, not specifically the F1 team, and he said from the beginning that it had nothing to do with trying to get his son into their F1 team. McLaren were just looking for new investors at the time after they ousted Ron and had to buy back all of his shares.

[CoolHands]

That’s rubbish. He just set it up 2 / 3 years in advance. Buy into the group, get your son experience in a lower team and eventually move him into the target team ie McLaren.

[shirt]

Another cash cow for Williams. Latifi may be doing ok this year but 3 years in f2 with some top flight competition removed/promoted then you’d kinda expect that. 9 of the 20 are rookie drivers this season in f2

Edited by shirt on Thursday 28th November 12:29

[TheDeuce]

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

There are various sensible things Williams could do that their own stubbornness prevents them from doing.

[StevieBee]

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

Nope, it's a manufacturer's championship, ergo entrants must design and manufacture their own cars.

Some teams have pushed boundaries of this somewhat in the past (Super Aguri spring to mind) but the rules state original design and manufacture.

[Deesee]

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

If I was in charge, the Hass/Dellara chassis one would have been ordered, put the Merc carbon fibre gearbox in (like RP and bin the aluminium one).

& get on to 2021 regs asap..

[kiseca]

Deesee said:

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

If I was in charge, the Hass/Dellara chassis one would have been ordered, put the Merc carbon fibre gearbox in (like RP and bin the aluminium one).

& get on to 2021 regs asap..

If I was in charge, I'd order a Mercedes chassis and body, put a Mercedes engine in it, source my gearbox from Mercedes, and then headhunt their pit crew, strategy team and leadership

[SpudLink]

TheDeuce said:

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

There are various sensible things Williams could do that their own stubbornness prevents them from doing.

I thought they’d made it clear the Haas model is against the spirit of F1. They believe the point is to design and build your own chassis.

[Deesee]

kiseca said:

Deesee said:

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

If I was in charge, the Hass/Dellara chassis one would have been ordered, put the Merc carbon fibre gearbox in (like RP and bin the aluminium one).

& get on to 2021 regs asap..

If I was in charge, I'd order a Mercedes chassis and body, put a Mercedes engine in it, source my gearbox from Mercedes, and then headhunt their pit crew, strategy team and leadership

Perhaps when Merc leave they will gift the organisation to Claires brother

[andburg]

shirt said:

Another cash cow for Williams. Latifi may be doing ok this year but 3 yes in with some top flight competition removed/promoted then you’d kinda expect that. 9 of the 20 are rookie drivers this season in f2

This with bells on.

Its a financial decision.
2016 - 16th in gp2 (beaten by teammate)
2017 - 6th in F2 (beaten by teammate)
2018 - 9th in F2 (beaten by teammate)
2019 - 2nd in F2 (beat rookie teammate)
Has never won a championship according to wikipedia

compare that with this years F2 champ, Nyck de Vries who hasn't made it to F1...
2017 - 7th (beat teammate)
2018 - 4th (beat teammate)
2019 - 1st (beat teammate)

Edited by andburg on Thursday 28th November 12:34

[FourWheelDrift]

SpudLink said:

TheDeuce said:

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

There are various sensible things Williams could do that their own stubbornness prevents them from doing.

I thought they’d made it clear the Haas model is against the spirit of F1. They believe the point is to design and build your own chassis.

If there were never customer chassis bought from builders then Williams might never have existed, as both guises Frank Williams Racing (later sold to Walter Wolff) used customer cars for the first 6 years (Brabham, DeTomaso, March, Politoys, Hesketh & ISO) and Williams Grand Prix started with a March chassis.

[MissChief]

SpudLink said:

TheDeuce said:

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

There are various sensible things Williams could do that their own stubbornness prevents them from doing.

I thought they’d made it clear the Haas model is against the spirit of F1. They believe the point is to design and build your own chassis.

This.

They’ve been the one team who have consistently voted against rules allowing customer cars or teams, insisting that the F1 rules state it is also a manufacturers championship and allowing customer cars is totally against that part of the regulations. Sure they could easily buy in parts, and I believe they may have done in the past but they mostly design and make all their parts compared to other teams who take gearboxes and other rear assemblies like suspension to match their engine supplier.

[Graveworm]

andburg said:

This with bells on.

Its a financial decision.
2016 - 16th in gp2 (beaten by teammate)
2017 - 6th in F2 (beaten by teammate)
2018 - 9th in F2 (beaten by teammate)
2019 - 2nd in F2 (beat rookie teammate)
Has never won a championship according to wikipedia

compare that with this years F2 champ, Nyck de Vries who hasn't made it to F1...
2017 - 7th (beat teammate)
2018 - 4th (beat teammate)
2019 - 1st (beat teammate)

Edited by andburg on Thursday 28th November 12:34

The best will always shine, but it's going to get very competitive over the next few years. Lost of talented young drivers in lower order teams and most of the top teams seem to have their line ups mapped out. If Hülkenberg can't get a drive in a competitive team, maybe going to Merc (Despite not a very auspicious start) was a good move for Nyck. I think he lost out more because of how well Sainz and Norris did, I doubt he was ever in the frame for Williams.

[HighwayStar]

CoolHands said:

That’s rubbish. He just set it up 2 / 3 years in advance. Buy into the group, get your son experience in a lower team and eventually move him into the target team ie McLaren.

No, that's rubbish... Yes senior has bought into the McLaren Group, not the team. His stake is 10%. Latifi is not going to be able to move his son or anyone into a race seat at all.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/136206/michael-l...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44200260

[TheDeuce]

MissChief said:

SpudLink said:

TheDeuce said:

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

There are various sensible things Williams could do that their own stubbornness prevents them from doing.

I thought they’d made it clear the Haas model is against the spirit of F1. They believe the point is to design and build your own chassis.

This.

They’ve been the one team who have consistently voted against rules allowing customer cars or teams, insisting that the F1 rules state it is also a manufacturers championship and allowing customer cars is totally against that part of the regulations. Sure they could easily buy in parts, and I believe they may have done in the past but they mostly design and make all their parts compared to other teams who take gearboxes and other rear assemblies like suspension to match their engine supplier.

That's true, they are totally against it. They're also totally against becoming a 'b' team. And I agree thoroughly with their preference and morals on both counts. The problem is though... They can't afford to continue as they are. Not without a cash injection sufficient to re-capitalise the team to enable them to develop a serious car for 2021 onwards, and run their whole operation for another few years until the results are (hopefully) proven and they start to attract big name sponsors again. Unfortunately getting such a cash injection would effectively result in Frank & Claire losing control of the team, which is something else they don't want to do..

It's all very well sticking to one's guns but all that is happening is they're killing of the reputation and value of the team. Their sponsorship revenue is declining and costs are rising. They can't exactly save any more money on car development to bridge the gap. Without a decent car they can't get decent results so sponsorship will just get harder to come by. In the end, it can only go on so long until cash flow becomes inoperable and they have to sell up. At that point the team won't be as valuable as it is today, which begs the question: Why wait?

Who knows, maybe they have a master-plan to turn their own fortunes around. I can't imagine what it could possibly be though. They were very strong backers of the incoming budget cap, but they don't even have the revenue these days to meet the cap that has been set, in spite of being stuck with a far larger team (staff) to support than other teams that are south of the budget cap. Maybe the hope the last couple of years was for a lower cap.

[kiseca]

Deesee said:

kiseca said:

Deesee said:

CoolHands said:

Can’t Williams effectively rent a whole chassis off red bull or someone? Even Renault. st anyone’s is better than theirs. Would save effort and money of designing their own

If I was in charge, the Hass/Dellara chassis one would have been ordered, put the Merc carbon fibre gearbox in (like RP and bin the aluminium one).

& get on to 2021 regs asap..

If I was in charge, I'd order a Mercedes chassis and body, put a Mercedes engine in it, source my gearbox from Mercedes, and then headhunt their pit crew, strategy team and leadership

Perhaps when Merc leave they will gift the organisation to Claires brother

[TheDeuce]

Breaking news: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.kubica-...

Kubica looking to work out a support role for Racing Point or Haas, to aid them in development. I assume they're not all that interested in learning the secrets behind Williams recent performance... But nonetheless, it would be great if he could remain part of the sport having fought his way back in to the paddock.

Also I'll watch his performance in DTM, fingers crossed it'll suit him better now than F1 as a driver.