The Official F1 2020 silly season *contains speculation*

[Steamer]

HustleRussell said:

HurryUpAndWait said:

I would love to see RIC in the Ferrari next year. VET, as discussed at length, is not delivering. If any rookie had made the number of mistakes as VET in the past 12 months, they would be canned. We would then have HAM vs VER vs RIC/LEC - a mouth-watering prospect.</speculation>

Has RIC got a release clause if Renault are not competitive?

I’m sure I heard that he has an escape option of Ferrari or Mercedes come knocking

Yes I've heard that from a few places too. I think he'd jump at the chance - he did'nt seem too joyous about having Ocon as a team mate next season either.

[TheDeuce]

Steamer said:

HustleRussell said:

HurryUpAndWait said:

I would love to see RIC in the Ferrari next year. VET, as discussed at length, is not delivering. If any rookie had made the number of mistakes as VET in the past 12 months, they would be canned. We would then have HAM vs VER vs RIC/LEC - a mouth-watering prospect.</speculation>

Has RIC got a release clause if Renault are not competitive?

I’m sure I heard that he has an escape option of Ferrari or Mercedes come knocking

Yes I've heard that from a few places too. I think he'd jump at the chance - he did'nt seem too joyous about having Ocon as a team mate next season either.

This is all just rumours - who knows the specifics of such clauses? Not that it matters anyway, if Ferrari really wanted DR they could buy him out including compensating for any broken clauses.

Anything is possible. All kind of hinges on whether or not vettel wants to go of course. If he did, I'd love to see DR at Ferrari, but at the same time - I think he would hate the culture. Seriously hate it.

[HurryUpAndWait]

TheDeuce said:

This is all just rumours - who knows the specifics of such clauses? Not that it matters anyway, if Ferrari really wanted DR they could buy him out including compensating for any broken clauses.

Absolutely and fingers firmly crossed!

TheDeuce said:

Anything is possible. All kind of hinges on whether or not vettel wants to go of course. If he did, I'd love to see DR at Ferrari, but at the same time - I think he would hate the culture. Seriously hate it.

What is it that Ferrari do differently that makes life difficult for drivers? A genuine question. Is it a culture clash? The expectations and demands on the drivers to do so much more than just race? Whilst RIC May hate it, if it gives him a shot at a title, I don’t doubt he’d swallow it.

[TheDeuce]

HurryUpAndWait said:

What is it that Ferrari do differently that makes life difficult for drivers? A genuine question. Is it a culture clash? The expectations and demands on the drivers to do so much more than just race? Whilst RIC May hate it, if it gives him a shot at a title, I don’t doubt he’d swallow it.

It's two fold. Firstly, you have to live sleep and breathe Ferrari culture - which would be tough on DR as he's so genuine and not naturally given to being 'the brand'. Secondly, I am an engineer (fluid dynamics) and I have worked with Italian crews, and you can't tell them they're wrong until it's been demonstrated and they proudly announce they have discovered they're wrong! So for any driver, I imagine feedback takes a long time to be accepted, which would be frustrating to say the least. Let's just say, you can't rock up day one and tell them the cars a bit of a turd. You would need to show how it wasn't working first, even if you knew why day one, and it took a few races for proof.

I don't know any of the above as fact in relation to Ferrari specifically. But that is my feeling based upon working with Italian teams on Italian lead projects. It's also broadly inline with what Ferrari drivers have elluded to over the years.

Im a nutshell, the Ferrari team is the outright boss of the driver, until such time the driver does enough for the team to accept they depend on the driver and must listen. One of Schumacher's greatest victories might have been getting Ferrari to change and do his bidding.

[anonymous-user]

Yes, telling those well known Italians Ross Brawn, Jean Todt and Rory Byrne how to do it must have been tough.

There is some utter guff spouted on these threads when it comes to Ferrari.

[kambites]

janesmith1950 said:

There is some utter guff spouted on these threads when it comes to Ferrari.

There's some utter guff spouted on these threads about everyone and everything.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

TheDeuce said:

I don't know any of the above as fact

Think you could just copy and paste this onto every post you do on PH?

[shirt]

janesmith1950 said:

Yes, telling those well known Italians Ross Brawn, Jean Todt and Rory Byrne how to do it must have been tough.

There is some utter guff spouted on these threads when it comes to Ferrari.

Have to agree. Ferrari cars consistently ranks as one of the best places to work globally. All Italians I work with (engineering/engines) are generally very talented, easy to work with and a good laugh.

If Ferrari were French (as in staffed and geographically located) then I’d perhaps agree that the culture clash could be a problem.

[Exige77]

shirt said:

janesmith1950 said:

Yes, telling those well known Italians Ross Brawn, Jean Todt and Rory Byrne how to do it must have been tough.

There is some utter guff spouted on these threads when it comes to Ferrari.

Have to agree. Ferrari cars consistently ranks as one of the best places to work globally. All Italians I work with (engineering/engines) are generally very talented, easy to work with and a good laugh.

If Ferrari were French (as in staffed and geographically located) then I’d perhaps agree that the culture clash could be a problem.

The probably have the best canteen though.

[kiseca]

TheDeuce said:

HurryUpAndWait said:

What is it that Ferrari do differently that makes life difficult for drivers? A genuine question. Is it a culture clash? The expectations and demands on the drivers to do so much more than just race? Whilst RIC May hate it, if it gives him a shot at a title, I don’t doubt he’d swallow it.

It's two fold. Firstly, you have to live sleep and breathe Ferrari culture - which would be tough on DR as he's so genuine and not naturally given to being 'the brand'. Secondly, I am an engineer (fluid dynamics) and I have worked with Italian crews, and you can't tell them they're wrong until it's been demonstrated and they proudly announce they have discovered they're wrong! So for any driver, I imagine feedback takes a long time to be accepted, which would be frustrating to say the least. Let's just say, you can't rock up day one and tell them the cars a bit of a turd. You would need to show how it wasn't working first, even if you knew why day one, and it took a few races for proof.

I don't know any of the above as fact in relation to Ferrari specifically. But that is my feeling based upon working with Italian teams on Italian lead projects. It's also broadly inline with what Ferrari drivers have elluded to over the years.

Im a nutshell, the Ferrari team is the outright boss of the driver, until such time the driver does enough for the team to accept they depend on the driver and must listen. One of Schumacher's greatest victories might have been getting Ferrari to change and do his bidding.

That's how it was under Enzo apparently, and the movie Rush made a point about it in scenes where Niki Lauda criticized the car. Prost got fired for saying the car's crap, but then again if he was saying things that were demotivating or undermining the team then that's not a shocker. Whether or not that culture persists now, I don't know.

Schumacher had influence wherever he went, for sure, and worked hard to keep everyone in the team on his side. Remembering names, birthdays, meeting with everyone, thanking them for work, etc. That gave him scope to suggest improvements without getting people's backs up, because they trusted him and wanted to succeed with him. At Ferrari though he wasn't enough on his own. It took Todt at the top to give cover for Brawn to change the team culture into something more cooperative, coherent and focussed on success instead of tradition and the Italian press..

Schumacher did it the right way, Prost did it the wrong way. Lauda also appears to have done it the same way Prost did years later, but Lauda made it work.

[Leithen]

kiseca said:

Schumacher did it the right way, Prost did it the wrong way. Lauda also appears to have done it the same way Prost did years later, but Lauda made it work.

Lauda had di Montezemolo.

Schumacher had Brawn who had Todt who had di Montezemolo.

Prost had Barnard, who had a nightmare above him, which culminated in a dissenting part of the team actually developing a different car concurrently to his. Agnelli appointed di Montezemolo in '91 to sort this mess out after Barnard had understandably left. Barnard and Prost ought to have dominated the late 80's and early 90's, but Ferrari reverted to type and shot themselves in both feet with a single barrel.

The lesson is simply that political control of the team had to be almost absolute for it to succeed. After Agnelli passed, di Montezemolo was weakened until ultimately Marchionne, who was Elkann's appointment, took over.

With his untimely death, Ferrari is up against it as although Elkann is smart, he is at the ownership or control level of Agnelli/Enzo Ferrari. The team needs a manager who can get his hands dirty like di Montezemolo and Marchionne did.

[kiseca]

Yes you're right, de Montezemolo was a key part too.

[Europa1]

kiseca said:

Schumacher had influence wherever he went, for sure

For sure.

[cuprabob]

Europa1 said:

kiseca said:

Schumacher had influence wherever he went, for sure

For sure.

You sound uncannily like Nico Rosberg

[TheDeuce]

cuprabob said:

Europa1 said:

kiseca said:

Schumacher had influence wherever he went, for sure

For sure.

You sound uncannily like Nico Rosberg

That's a heck of thing to say about a fellow forum member...

[Teddy Lop]

Steamer said:

HustleRussell said:

HurryUpAndWait said:

I would love to see RIC in the Ferrari next year. VET, as discussed at length, is not delivering. If any rookie had made the number of mistakes as VET in the past 12 months, they would be canned. We would then have HAM vs VER vs RIC/LEC - a mouth-watering prospect.</speculation>

Has RIC got a release clause if Renault are not competitive?

I’m sure I heard that he has an escape option of Ferrari or Mercedes come knocking

Yes I've heard that from a few places too. I think he'd jump at the chance - he did'nt seem too joyous about having Ocon as a team mate next season either.

if leclerc continues to perform the way he has recently I think the danny>ferrari ship has sailed - even if vettel walks away at the end of the year they'll want someone willing (and/or of an ability level) to be a team player methinks. Danny will be looking to lead the team and to win which would sit awkwardly with ferraris own protege at the stage he is.

I admire leclerc, but I see in him a streak that he's the kind of operator who once vettel is dealt with will want the team to himself (which is how ferrari seem to perform best anyway)

[Teddy Lop]

TheDeuce said:

It's two fold. Firstly, you have to live sleep and breathe Ferrari culture - which would be tough on DR as he's so genuine and not naturally given to being 'the brand'. Secondly, I am an engineer (fluid dynamics) and I have worked with Italian crews, and you can't tell them they're wrong until it's been demonstrated and they proudly announce they have discovered they're wrong! So for any driver, I imagine feedback takes a long time to be accepted, which would be frustrating to say the least. Let's just say, you can't rock up day one and tell them the cars a bit of a turd. You would need to show how it wasn't working first, even if you knew why day one, and it took a few races for proof.

I don't know any of the above as fact in relation to Ferrari specifically. But that is my feeling based upon working with Italian teams on Italian lead projects. It's also broadly inline with what Ferrari drivers have elluded to over the years.

Im a nutshell, the Ferrari team is the outright boss of the driver, until such time the driver does enough for the team to accept they depend on the driver and must listen. One of Schumacher's greatest victories might have been getting Ferrari to change and do his bidding.

Rossi is supposed to have experienced similar with ducati, they got him in because he's the be-all end-all then when he wanted changes made it was all "we make da bike, you ride da bike, we don't tell you how to ride da bike..."

I expect the engineer v. driver rivalry/ego assertion is a problem of the ages but you do tend to hear more anecdotes featuring the Italians

[HTP99]

Teddy Lop said:

TheDeuce said:

It's two fold. Firstly, you have to live sleep and breathe Ferrari culture - which would be tough on DR as he's so genuine and not naturally given to being 'the brand'. Secondly, I am an engineer (fluid dynamics) and I have worked with Italian crews, and you can't tell them they're wrong until it's been demonstrated and they proudly announce they have discovered they're wrong! So for any driver, I imagine feedback takes a long time to be accepted, which would be frustrating to say the least. Let's just say, you can't rock up day one and tell them the cars a bit of a turd. You would need to show how it wasn't working first, even if you knew why day one, and it took a few races for proof.

I don't know any of the above as fact in relation to Ferrari specifically. But that is my feeling based upon working with Italian teams on Italian lead projects. It's also broadly inline with what Ferrari drivers have elluded to over the years.

Im a nutshell, the Ferrari team is the outright boss of the driver, until such time the driver does enough for the team to accept they depend on the driver and must listen. One of Schumacher's greatest victories might have been getting Ferrari to change and do his bidding.

Rossi is supposed to have experienced similar with ducati, they got him in because he's the be-all end-all then when he wanted changes made it was all "we make da bike, you ride da bike, we don't tell you how to ride da bike..."

I expect the engineer v. driver rivalry/ego assertion is a problem of the ages but you do tend to hear more anecdotes featuring the Italians

It is funny how different cultures operate, the Japanese have a very different and slow way in the way that they work, one would think that they could sit back and look at how successful race teams are elsewhere, look at themselves and think "now where are we going wrong, maybe we should try some of that!"

[Stan the Bat]

Steamer said:

HustleRussell said:

HurryUpAndWait said:

I would love to see RIC in the Ferrari next year. VET, as discussed at length, is not delivering. If any rookie had made the number of mistakes as VET in the past 12 months, they would be canned. We would then have HAM vs VER vs RIC/LEC - a mouth-watering prospect.</speculation>

Has RIC got a release clause if Renault are not competitive?

I’m sure I heard that he has an escape option of Ferrari or Mercedes come knocking

Yes I've heard that from a few places too. I think he'd jump at the chance - he did'nt seem too joyous about having Ocon as a team mate next season either.

Why all the hate on Ocon.?

Why doesn't DR like him ?

[MartG]

HTP99 said:

...the Japanese have a very different and slow way in the way that they work, one would think that they could sit back and look at how successful race teams are elsewhere, look at themselves and think "now where are we going wrong, maybe we should try some of that!"

Japan may give the impression of being efficient e.g. how quickly they repair roads, but they are anything but ! Even the smallest task requires umpteen forms to be filled in and scrutinised by numerous officials - they have achieved full employment by making paperwork for every task so cumbersome it requires a lot of manpower. Tasks which in the west we automate, such as traffic lights at roadworks, they still do manually.