Lance Stroll is not a quick driver, discuss...

Lance Stroll is not a quick driver, discuss...

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Discussion

super7

1,935 posts

208 months

Thursday 18th April 2019
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768 said:
super7 said:
Perez is always going to speak well of him..... your not going to bite the hand that feeds you and he also has the upper hand over Stroll in performance terms. He'll quite happily go out each weekend, beat Stroll and then sing Stroll's praises....

The question is..... Stroll or Ocon? for me it's Ocon every time!
True - but Perez didn't have to say he thought Stroll was better than previous team mates.

Ocon or Grosjean?
Ocon or Kvyat?
Ocon or Kubica?
Ocon or whoever seems to have taken Gasly's place this year?
Let's be honest.... Perez didn't get on well with Ocon.... they rubbed each other up on the race track enough to show that..... And that was probably because of two things.... 1) Ocon is as good as Perez 2) Ocon likes winding people up!!

Adrian W

13,875 posts

228 months

Thursday 18th April 2019
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Kraken said:
There are 19 other seats in F1. If Ocon was so much better he would be in one of them unless, of course, everyone thinks all the drivers have their seats because of money and nothing else.
were you paying attention last season, none of the other teams would touch him because of his Mercedes contract, and openly stated this.

geeks

9,188 posts

139 months

Thursday 18th April 2019
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Adrian W said:
Kraken said:
There are 19 other seats in F1. If Ocon was so much better he would be in one of them unless, of course, everyone thinks all the drivers have their seats because of money and nothing else.
were you paying attention last season, none of the other teams would touch him because of his Mercedes contract, and openly stated this.
Not really a case of not touching, more a case of being bared from approach! McLaren made it an open secret of trying to woo him and Sainz!

Vaud

50,519 posts

155 months

Thursday 18th April 2019
quotequote all
Adrian W said:
Kraken said:
There are 19 other seats in F1. If Ocon was so much better he would be in one of them unless, of course, everyone thinks all the drivers have their seats because of money and nothing else.
were you paying attention last season, none of the other teams would touch him because of his Mercedes contract, and openly stated this.
Exactly. Bottas is now driving for his seat. Ocon poised...

Kraken

1,710 posts

200 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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Adrian W said:
were you paying attention last season, none of the other teams would touch him because of his Mercedes contract, and openly stated this.
If he was that good it wouldn't matter. Plenty of drivers have had their contracts bought out by other teams and if he wanted to be in F1 so badly there are legal routes available to him to break the contracts. He wants to drive for Mercedes so he made his own bed basically.


Edited by Kraken on Friday 19th April 08:36

Vaud

50,519 posts

155 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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Kraken said:
If he was that good it wouldn't matter. Plenty of drivers have had their contracts bought out by other teams and if he wanted to be in F1 so badly there are legal routes available to him to break the contracts. He wants to drive for Mercedes so he made his own bed basically.
True on contracts, but the buyout may have been far too high. He wants to drive for a top team and took a balanced risk.

exelero

1,890 posts

89 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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Have you seen the best radio messages from the Chinese GP? "Lance, you're pressing radio instead of power" funny that

anonymous-user

54 months

Friday 19th April 2019
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Kraken said:
There are 19 other seats in F1. If Ocon was so much better he would be in one of them unless, of course, everyone thinks all the drivers have their seats because of money and nothing else.

Maybe Kimi should step down. He's only doing it as a hobby after all. Why don't Lewis and Seb step down? They've won many championships so maybe they should give someone else a chance?
But that’s the crux of the matter, it doesn’t matter how good someone is, if a team needs money they’ll compromise.

I don’t think there’s much doubt that Ocon, and a number of others would be better and faster than some on the grid.

TheDeuce

21,576 posts

66 months

Saturday 20th April 2019
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REALIST123 said:
Kraken said:
There are 19 other seats in F1. If Ocon was so much better he would be in one of them unless, of course, everyone thinks all the drivers have their seats because of money and nothing else.

Maybe Kimi should step down. He's only doing it as a hobby after all. Why don't Lewis and Seb step down? They've won many championships so maybe they should give someone else a chance?
But that’s the crux of the matter, it doesn’t matter how good someone is, if a team needs money they’ll compromise.

I don’t think there’s much doubt that Ocon, and a number of others would be better and faster than some on the grid.
So true. Not 'all' drivers have their seats due to money - but it's true that some do. Teams will happily accept a pay driver, or a PR friendly signing to get headlines in order to attract sponsors if they just need budget whilst they work on being more competitive.

coppice

8,612 posts

144 months

Sunday 21st April 2019
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The inconvenient truth is that it isn't Stroll's driving that is the problem , but the fact that his father is not only very well off, but has a public persona which is easy to dislike. And that triggers the usual litany of 'it's all so unfair' from the chorus . If another driver , maybe a Tommy Byrne working class hero with a good back story, had achieved the same results as Stroll the fact that he hadn't gone on to greater achievements would be all the team's fault and conspiracy theorists would have a field day .

Just as they did - and still do , in fact - about Tommy Byrne ...

anonymous-user

54 months

Sunday 21st April 2019
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coppice said:
The inconvenient truth is that it isn't Stroll's driving that is the problem , but the fact that his father is not only very well off, but has a public persona which is easy to dislike. And that triggers the usual litany of 'it's all so unfair' from the chorus . If another driver , maybe a Tommy Byrne working class hero with a good back story, had achieved the same results as Stroll the fact that he hadn't gone on to greater achievements would be all the team's fault and conspiracy theorists would have a field day .

Just as they did - and still do , in fact - about Tommy Byrne ...
Maybe you think that way; not I.

I’d just like to see 20 of the best single seater drivers in the world in F1. I accept that we’ll occasionally get a few who aren’t the best but they’re given a chance to see if they can improve. Sometimes too many chances.

What I don’t like is when there are drivers in F1 whose track records don’t show any reason why they should be in F1 or even given a chance in F1.

Stroll is one of them. Chilton and Wolff others from recent years. I’m sure you can think of others.

I’m sure this contributes, in a small but significant way, to the current situation where only a small number of teams on the grid have a chance of a podium, extreme circumstances excepted.

williamp

19,261 posts

273 months

Sunday 21st April 2019
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Well he did dominate in F3, beating the well respectd George russell. And if not him, who?? Who are the 20 best single seat drivers at the moment?

37chevy

3,280 posts

156 months

Sunday 21st April 2019
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williamp said:
Well he did dominate in F3, beating the well respectd George russell. And if not him, who?? Who are the 20 best single seat drivers at the moment?
Guess you missed the part where team orders were imposed in F3 from the outset....

williamp

19,261 posts

273 months

Sunday 21st April 2019
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37chevy said:
Guess you missed the part where team orders were imposed in F3 from the outset....
I guess..

I mean, i must be really think to not realise that Stroll raced for the Prema powerteam and George Russell for Hitech. I guess those pesky team orders and all that...

anonymous-user

54 months

Sunday 21st April 2019
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williamp said:
37chevy said:
Guess you missed the part where team orders were imposed in F3 from the outset....
I guess..

I mean, i must be really think to not realise that Stroll raced for the Prema powerteam and George Russell for Hitech. I guess those pesky team orders and all that...

It’s generally understood that they did have an effect, and there was a lot more going on besides.

Believe what you like, time will tell.

“Prema orders to help Stroll ruining European F3, Russell believes”


Kraken

1,710 posts

200 months

Sunday 21st April 2019
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Russell has always had a downer on Prema as they dominated F3 during his time. Pretty much the way Mercedes do in F1.

From memory he later apologised for the team order remarks.

37chevy

3,280 posts

156 months

Sunday 21st April 2019
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williamp said:
I guess..

I mean, i must be really think to not realise that Stroll raced for the Prema powerteam and George Russell for Hitech. I guess those pesky team orders and all that...
My point is strolls teammates were told to move over for him, gifting him points. Go back and watch the races...pretty disgraceful ruining another young drivers career for another.

skwdenyer

16,504 posts

240 months

Sunday 21st April 2019
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Be all of that as it may, I think Perez has played a blinder of psychology. Stroll Jnr is clearly not short of ego; having been told he’s the best teammate Perez has ever raced against after race 1, Stroll Jnr gives every impression of having allowed his arrogance to get the better of him, hence the lacklustre results since then.

coppice

8,612 posts

144 months

Monday 22nd April 2019
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REALIST123 said:
What I don’t like is when there are drivers in F1 whose track records don’t show any reason why they should be in F1 or even given a chance in F1.

Stroll is one of them. Chilton and Wolff others from recent years. I’m sure you can think of others.

I can think of a few - J Hunt, D Hill, N Lauda , and N Mansell, all of whom were so so, not setting the world on fire(sorry Niki ..) in F3/F2 and , in the latter pair's case being a tad underwhelming in early F1 days . And on the other hand , we have the stellar career of people like J Magnussen and D Walker in F3 , and two parts of sod all in F1 . Funny old game .

Stroll is no Lauda , but if anyone scores 40 points in an F1 season , with a best of 3rd , that is none too shabby .

Fundoreen

4,180 posts

83 months

Monday 22nd April 2019
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Does anyone remember Murray in the 70s banging on about one of the drivers tooling around at the back being a rock drummer?
As usual with MW it was always short on detail but a pay driver I guess.