Official 2019 Spanish Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
vdn said:
Martin says:
“...firstly, let's not pretend it was way better years or decades ago, a quick check of most results sheets underlines that.“
So yes, I agree with that. I disagree that it should only be about the drivers. There are other series to watch if one wants that. F1 should be the technical pinnacle of motorsport otherwise, it loses one of the main things that sets it apart: the fastest cars with the best drivers. Simple as that.
30-years ago Jordan put a very handy car on the grid with a team of 20 people and computers running Windows 3.1. The cars were state of the art and not over complex.“...firstly, let's not pretend it was way better years or decades ago, a quick check of most results sheets underlines that.“
So yes, I agree with that. I disagree that it should only be about the drivers. There are other series to watch if one wants that. F1 should be the technical pinnacle of motorsport otherwise, it loses one of the main things that sets it apart: the fastest cars with the best drivers. Simple as that.
Mercedes and Ferrari have pushed those numbers to 1000 staff and Terabytes of supercomputers to put two competitive cars on the grid for 21 races. And Ferrari are looking like Donkeys.
What is currently happening is completely illogical - especially with tyre managment. Running a competitive F2 car, costs about £3million per year.
There has to be a better compromise where there are 26 competitive cars on the grid. I am certain that Liberty and Ross know exactly what needs to be done. But the big teams just need to get a sense of proportion and go with it. If it does not meet their corporate marketing budget, they just need to relax their grip - and move on. Racing Point are saying that the limit that is being suggested by Liberty is still too much for their team to live with.
Edited by rdjohn on Tuesday 14th May 12:33
The budget cap... Not so useful for the teams that can't even reach the cap!
There's something about the idea limiting spending that doesn't seem very 'F1' to me. I know all the reasons it's being done, I get it. I just think part of the attraction to F1 is the glamour, money, excess.
There's something about the idea limiting spending that doesn't seem very 'F1' to me. I know all the reasons it's being done, I get it. I just think part of the attraction to F1 is the glamour, money, excess.
TheDeuce said:
The budget cap... Not so useful for the teams that can't even reach the cap!
There's something about the idea limiting spending that doesn't seem very 'F1' to me. I know all the reasons it's being done, I get it. I just think part of the attraction to F1 is the glamour, money, excess.
I partly agree but without some controls it would spiral and self destruct.There's something about the idea limiting spending that doesn't seem very 'F1' to me. I know all the reasons it's being done, I get it. I just think part of the attraction to F1 is the glamour, money, excess.
I worry that when we hit the next recession or "market correction" that at least one manufacturer will pull out.
Derek Smith said:
I don't want to put the boot into him as he seems to be taking a bit of abuse lately, but Vettel lost 3rd, and possibly 4th, for Ferrari in yet another error. His first corner lock-up was critical. Had he been a bit more sensible and concentrated on getting in front of MV, he'd have been fairly safe. I can see why, with there top speed comfortably higher than that of the Mercs, he might have thought that second was on, but three into the first would not go. Once LH had a good start, the race for the first two places was virtually over.
Ferrari are not a totally spent force, as the article seems to suggest. The locked out the front of the grid a couple of races previously. An error by Vettel put him out of range to challenge. Had it not been for a power failure, ClC would have won the race, and quite comfortably it seemed.
I wouldn't say MB is saying they are a spent force, more that yet again Mercedes are just foing everything perfectly and Ferrari keep ballsing it up.Ferrari are not a totally spent force, as the article seems to suggest. The locked out the front of the grid a couple of races previously. An error by Vettel put him out of range to challenge. Had it not been for a power failure, ClC would have won the race, and quite comfortably it seemed.
Vaud said:
I partly agree but without some controls it would spiral and self destruct.
I worry that when we hit the next recession or "market correction" that at least one manufacturer will pull out.
Maybe so. But generally when a team pulls out, the team is bought by someone else. Not guaranteed though! I worry that when we hit the next recession or "market correction" that at least one manufacturer will pull out.
Eric Mc said:
rdjohn said:
An interesting piece from Brundle. I don’t disagree with a word of it.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096/11719448/m...
Martin - I love you.https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24096/11719448/m...
Everything I think that is wrong with current F1 summed up perfectly. But, maybe he's talking b
ks too. What would he know?A team buys a grid slot, that's about all, that is what they are paying for, new teams rarely come around really, just revamped other ones.
Seriously though, if you do not think F1 right now has reached its nadir you must be very young.
Yes races in the old days were dull still, and the differences between cars were far bigger. I was watching some mid 80's stuff recently where the Williams team lapped the field.
I don't know why it was better, but most of it is the cars, they looked hard to drive, looked vicious, modern cars don't look hard to drive, they look like ridiculous barges stuffed full of utterly pointless aero bits from a team of 50 blokes trying to justify their 50k a year salaries and 20 OT hours a week designing a wing mirror on CFD that offers a gram of extra downforce.
If you cannot see how inane, ridiculous, utterly pathetic this all is? Leaf blowers to cool brake ducts, endlessly going through the process of leaving on a tyre warmer for an extra second, when you are employing a numpty who has a billionaire for a Dad to drive the car and own the team. All ridiculous.
That is plainly crazy isn't it?
I know I will get the hate replies, but seriously, take a look at yourselves before nailing people who have seen the light and realise F1 is just a very expensive wool that is being pulled over your eyes, of for a huge fee of course.
Seriously though, if you do not think F1 right now has reached its nadir you must be very young.
Yes races in the old days were dull still, and the differences between cars were far bigger. I was watching some mid 80's stuff recently where the Williams team lapped the field.
I don't know why it was better, but most of it is the cars, they looked hard to drive, looked vicious, modern cars don't look hard to drive, they look like ridiculous barges stuffed full of utterly pointless aero bits from a team of 50 blokes trying to justify their 50k a year salaries and 20 OT hours a week designing a wing mirror on CFD that offers a gram of extra downforce.
If you cannot see how inane, ridiculous, utterly pathetic this all is? Leaf blowers to cool brake ducts, endlessly going through the process of leaving on a tyre warmer for an extra second, when you are employing a numpty who has a billionaire for a Dad to drive the car and own the team. All ridiculous.
That is plainly crazy isn't it?
I know I will get the hate replies, but seriously, take a look at yourselves before nailing people who have seen the light and realise F1 is just a very expensive wool that is being pulled over your eyes, of for a huge fee of course.
ash73 said:
I've been saying for years they should add ground effect, clip the wings, fix the tyres and bring back refuelling. They also need to ditch these boring hybrid power units and get back to screaming V10s, and focus "green" efforts on logistics.
Another year, another missed opportunity.
I certainly agree about the engines but refuelling is a disaster that completely ruins any chance of racing. I am not sure how well you remember the last era but what tended to happen nearly all the time was that cars would just follow each other and eventually attempt to 'overtake' via a pitstop. it was mind-numbingly terrible.Another year, another missed opportunity.
ash73 said:
I've been saying for years they should add ground effect, clip the wings, fix the tyres and bring back refuelling. They also need to ditch these boring hybrid power units and get back to screaming V10s, and focus "green" efforts on logistics.
Ground effect - maybe - it can have unintended consequences (high entry speeds, more energy in a crash)Tyres - again, tricky - what do you want? ultra durable or ultra sticky/fall apart tyres?
Refuelling - no thanks. We do need to reduce weight though, so maybe allow more novel fuels, higher energy density allowing them to run lighter?
Screaming V10's? They were good. But how about smaller simpler engines? 1.25 litre flat 4 with twin turbos and adjustable boost with a quali mode allowed? Standardise some of the components to reduce cost.
ash73 said:
MB is right as usual but nobody will listen. The leading manufacturers and their sponsors won't care until people stop watching.
TBH I'm amazed anyone IS watching... oh look another "managed" Merc 1-2
I've been saying for years they should add ground effect, clip the wings, fix the tyres and bring back refuelling. They also need to ditch these boring hybrid power units and get back to screaming V10s, and focus "green" efforts on logistics.
Another year, another missed opportunity.
TBH I'm amazed anyone IS watching... oh look another "managed" Merc 1-2
I've been saying for years they should add ground effect, clip the wings, fix the tyres and bring back refuelling. They also need to ditch these boring hybrid power units and get back to screaming V10s, and focus "green" efforts on logistics.
Another year, another missed opportunity.
ditch hybrid and go back to V10? There’s an old fart comment if ever I saw one. I mean; it’d be nice but it’s just ridiculous to think that could / would happen. If anything; F1 will end fully electric in the future. Despite the engine sizes; these cars are the fastest there have ever been. If you appreciate sport and engineering; man and machine; there’s plenty to love. You’re lucky in that you don’t have to watch it... so don’t. I don’t watch synchronised swimming for the same reasons 
vdn said:
ditch hybrid and go back to V10? There’s an old fart comment if ever I saw one. I mean; it’d be nice but it’s just ridiculous to think that could / would happen. If anything; F1 will end fully electric in the future. Despite the engine sizes; these cars are the fastest there have ever been. If you appreciate sport and engineering; man and machine; there’s plenty to love. You’re lucky in that you don’t have to watch it... so don’t. I don’t watch synchronised swimming for the same reasons So my question to all of you here is this...What do you think can be done to make the cars special and magical again when you watch them live at the circuit? The current cars are totally underwhelming live and these days small kids and the family dog can have a peaceful afternoon at the circuit and I think that is a very long way from what F1 should be about.
Vaud said:
Would hydrogen engines be tenable?
Not for F1 cars. Too heavy/bulky as a solution.It's inevitable they will go fully electric at some point. The sport isn't quite ready for that leap just yet though and current battery tech isn't up to the job, it will be before long though. Between now and then I expect the power units to remain hybrid and more or less as they are. Maybe a further reduction in displacement, but still hybrid.
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