Official 2019 Spanish Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[Eric Mc]

You will note that I haven't criticised others for watching the Spanish race. I watched it myself (in highlights form - for what they were worth).

We criticise the current iteration of F1 BECAUSE we love F1 - and have done for many years in some cases. Martin Brundle is spot on. It has made some serious wrong turns over the past decade or so and needs hauling back.

[Eric Mc]

kambites said:

They don't want to be more green though. They want to encourage car manufacturers to join the series, and those car manufacturers only want to spend money on racing where they can use it as a marketing tool for their road cars, and the road car market is being pushed to be more green.

I would argue that F1 is better when the major manufacturers are NOT involved.

[kambites]

Eric Mc said:

I would argue that F1 is better when the major manufacturers are NOT involved.

It would certainly be very different if you removed the car manufacturers. I'm not sure you can really say it "is better than..." because F1 has had car manufacturers running teams since before the world championship even existed.

I rather suspect the end result would be a few very interesting years, culminating in F1 dwindling into insignificance.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 14th May 16:13

[Eric Mc]

That is indeed true.

However, in my opinion, it's OK as long as they are in the background rather than having full-on "works" teams. I always enjoyed F1 more when the smaller "garagiste" type teams held sway.

Trying to justify F1 as some sort of "technology proving ground" for family runabouts is a nonsense and it's about time this was recognised by the participants.

I actually think that it is dwindling into significance right now - despite the huge investment in money that goes into it.

[kambites]

Eric Mc said:

It's OK as long as they are in the background rather than having full-on "works" teams. I always enjoyed F1 more when the smaller "garagiste" type teams held sway.

Yes but they wouldn't be. They'd almost certainly jump ship entirely and go to do something else. Probably Formula E.

[Eric Mc]

kambites said:

Yes but they wouldn't be. They'd almost certainly jump ship entirely and go to do something else. Probably Formula E.

A giant assumption, may I suggest.

[vdn]

Eric Mc said:

It's OK as long as they are in the background rather than having full-on "works" teams. I always enjoyed F1 more when the smaller "garagiste" type teams held sway.

Trying to justify F1 as some sort of "technology proving ground" for family runabouts is a nonsense and it's about time this was recognised by the participants.

I agree. I want the technology there for the sake of F1 being at the forefront of tech. Not because the next Honda Civic will get another couple MPG. But it’s great that the tech can and will find its way into the mainstream.

[kambites]

Eric Mc said:

kambites said:

Yes but they wouldn't be. They'd almost certainly jump ship entirely and go to do something else. Probably Formula E.

A giant assumption, may I suggest.

As is your assumption that racing would get better without the works teams. All of this is speculation.

[Gad-Westy]

TheDeuce said:

Vaud said:

I thought it wasn't sensible at he moment due to the production and distribution grid?

I am hypothesising about how we keep ICE and some form of green message.

The problem is, that ultimately the green message is to get rid of ICE altogether.

The green angle pees me off. You could make the cars run on fairy dust but whilst they're still being flown backwards and forwards across the Atlantic and to Asia or other parts of Europe every other week along with the enormous circus of people and kit, that follows them, then precisely what fuel and how much of it the cars themselves use seems trivially irrelevant. It's a shame really as I know, it's about the overall image of the sport, but it's such a wafer thin 'green' veil that it annoys me that it's given any credibility at all and yet here we are five years into the hybrid, 100l per race era.

[kambites]

The engine formula is not supposed to make F1 "green". It's supposed to demonstrate to people who don't really understand engineering that the manufacturers are good at creating engines which meet most buyers' perceptions of greenness.

[anonymous-user]

Eric Mc said:

Trying to justify F1 as some sort of "technology proving ground" for family runabouts is a nonsense

Aside from all the road car technology that has been developed form motorsport, of which there is plenty, you are spot on

[Eric Mc]

kambites said:

As is your assumption that racing would get better without the works teams. All of this is speculation.

Only based on when the smaller teams were dominant and the majority. So based on previous events. Of course, there is no guarantee that a large departure of the big boys would make things better - but I'd be happy to see what transpired.

[Eric Mc]

cb1965 said:

Eric Mc said:

Trying to justify F1 as some sort of "technology proving ground" for family runabouts is a nonsense

Aside from all the road car technology that has been developed form motorsport, of which there is plenty, you are spot on

Go ahead and list them - especially technology that first appeared in F1 and ended up in my Ford Focus.

[Deesee]

Merc v6 t v Merc v8

https://mobile.twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1128...

[entropy]

I'm surprised Lando Norris wasn't penalised for his punt on Stroll. It was a rather optimistic move. Had it been Grosjean we'd all be shouting for him to get the sack yet funnily enough RoGro had the sense to back out and yet people point fingers and laugh.

Maybe Norris got a free pass from the stewards because he's been having stellar drives without displaying anything untowards with aggressive/lairy driving.

[paulguitar]

Eric Mc said:

cb1965 said:

Eric Mc said:

Trying to justify F1 as some sort of "technology proving ground" for family runabouts is a nonsense

Aside from all the road car technology that has been developed form motorsport, of which there is plenty, you are spot on

Go ahead and list them - especially technology that first appeared in F1 and ended up in my Ford Focus.

I would be interested in this list too, I have not yet seen evidence that F1 has furthered road cars in any direct way, as far as I can recall. Even ABS came from aircraft technology.

[Derek Smith]

entropy said:

I'm surprised Lando Norris wasn't penalised for his punt on Stroll. It was a rather optimistic move. Had it been Grosjean we'd all be shouting for him to get the sack yet funnily enough RoGro had the sense to back out and yet people point fingers and laugh.

Maybe Norris got a free pass from the stewards because he's been having stellar drives without displaying anything untowards with aggressive/lairy driving.

When I first saw it I blamed Norris. On looking at it a second and third time I changed my mind to a racing incident. Both drivers could have avoided the crash. To blame the person overtaking is a way of ensuring no overtakes. This was, after all, Spain.

[Eric Mc]

paulguitar said:

I would be interested in this list too, I have not yet seen evidence that F1 has furthered road cars in any direct way, as far as I can recall. Even ABS came from aircraft technology.

It did - as did disc brakes.

[anonymous-user]

Derek Smith said:

When I first saw it I blamed Norris. On looking at it a second and third time I changed my mind to a racing incident. Both drivers could have avoided the crash. To blame the person overtaking is a way of ensuring no overtakes. This was, after all, Spain.

It looked like a 50/50 to me, too. There doesn't always need to be someone to blame.

It's a hard distinction to make, however I tend to go by if a legitimate move ends in contact, that's often fair enough, whereas if the move could only work through contact (Vettel, Verstappen, I'm sometimes looking at you!), then apportioning blame is worthwhile.

Biggest travesty for me was Hamilton on KR at Spa. That penalty was the ultimate insult to motor racing.

Don't racing fans have long memories!

[entropy]

Derek Smith said:

When I first saw it I blamed Norris. On looking at it a second and third time I changed my mind to a racing incident. Both drivers could have avoided the crash. To blame the person overtaking is a way of ensuring no overtakes. This was, after all, Spain.

You have to be wheel to wheel into and through Turn 2 to make it stick. That's why you have drivers backing out, cut across the Esses, go round the cone then rejoin the circuit. Inexperience at racing in Spain and less for Norris to worry about as it won't be needed in a few years time ...maybe even the stewards knew Zandvoort was a done deal!