Gasley - What's gone wrong?
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
I think the Red Bull is not an easy car to drive this year. I think they’re really pushing the envelope with setup in an effort to compensate for the slight power disadvantage the Honda still has. I don’t think the chassis / aero package is the best the team has produced in recent years either. I reckon Verstappen has the skill, experience and confidence to handle that situation. That confidence is infectious and Max’s now established team of mechanics share it.
Gasly cannot get the car to his liking and isn’t getting that rhythm and confidence.
Gasly is under-performing. Meanwhile, Max is flattering the car.
I think a 23 year old has a lot yet to learn about the sport. He has shown he has great pace elsewhere but it isn’t clicking this year.
Put Gasly in a Mercedes or Ferrari and he’ll be close to a team-mate because I reckon they are more user-friendly cars with less extreme setups.
I don’t think you can describe the environment for drivers at Mercedes in particular as caustic. As you say, a driver places a weight of expectation on themselves. However you don’t see Toto or Lauda coming out with anything like what Marko has been quoted as saying. That reads like a kiss of death.
I do agree about Marko - he's a sledge-hammer of expectation/opinion that must be tough to take after lesser teams have pampered an up-and-coming driver.Gasly cannot get the car to his liking and isn’t getting that rhythm and confidence.
Gasly is under-performing. Meanwhile, Max is flattering the car.
I think a 23 year old has a lot yet to learn about the sport. He has shown he has great pace elsewhere but it isn’t clicking this year.
Put Gasly in a Mercedes or Ferrari and he’ll be close to a team-mate because I reckon they are more user-friendly cars with less extreme setups.
I don’t think you can describe the environment for drivers at Mercedes in particular as caustic. As you say, a driver places a weight of expectation on themselves. However you don’t see Toto or Lauda coming out with anything like what Marko has been quoted as saying. That reads like a kiss of death.
However, whilst I understand and sympathise with the difficulties of timing and attitude than Gasly has faced - it is a fact that other drivers have been through the same progression and have delivered. Max being the obvious example.
I also appreciate your point that Mercedes and Ferrari might be easier in terms of car behaviour - yet I see the gap between Gasly and Max after almost half a season and it's too much after so much time in the seat to just be about a driver/car misfit in my view. Even if I'm wrong about that, then any top driver in a top team needs to instinctively be able to drive whatever they are stuck with in at least a fairly competitive manner. If the Red Bull is difficult to master full time, so is a Mercedes with a flat spotted tyre and a damaged floor - yet they hang on. Gasly hasn't been competitive and we're not talking about one or two tenths deficit here..
I doubt we will agree - you obviously see something I don't. Perhaps better to simply both state our expectations and lets see what happens. I think RB will drop him and he will be offered a seat in a midfield team. I don't expect he will rise again.
I slipped another post in before your response by the way.
Regarding my expectations for Gasly. My expectations for what Gasly could achieve and my prediction of what will actually happen to Gasly over the remainder of this year are two very different things. The reason for that gulf between expectation and reality is what I am calling the ‘systematic undermining’ of Red Bull drivers by Marko and co.
Regarding my expectations for Gasly. My expectations for what Gasly could achieve and my prediction of what will actually happen to Gasly over the remainder of this year are two very different things. The reason for that gulf between expectation and reality is what I am calling the ‘systematic undermining’ of Red Bull drivers by Marko and co.
TheDeuce said:
To be fair to Max, there is a reason he gets priority sometimes.. Everything in F1 is earned at some point.
On the other hand, for all we know RB weren't sure if the new wing would be better or not - they probably did have a good idea post FP, can't know for sure though.
No, they had a very good idea that it would be better, which is why it was brought forward for Austria after being initially planned for Silverstone. On the other hand, for all we know RB weren't sure if the new wing would be better or not - they probably did have a good idea post FP, can't know for sure though.
His issue is he’s up against max, who imo has been the best driver on the grid for the last 12 months, his other issue is he’s not quite on top of the car, or he’s simply trying to hard with setups to overcome the deficit to max.
to be fair, I also think had RIC stayed this year he would be having a tougher time than the 2 previous seasons .
We’ve seen this before when Kimi was paired with alonso, Kimi didn’t have the steering feel he needed and was absolutely trounced by Alonso, difference was Kimi was an established driver, we all ( at least I hoped) the majority knew Kimi wasn’t as far off Alonso as that season suggested.
to be fair, I also think had RIC stayed this year he would be having a tougher time than the 2 previous seasons .
We’ve seen this before when Kimi was paired with alonso, Kimi didn’t have the steering feel he needed and was absolutely trounced by Alonso, difference was Kimi was an established driver, we all ( at least I hoped) the majority knew Kimi wasn’t as far off Alonso as that season suggested.
REALIST123 said:
mattikake said:
It was said many times he was using verstappen's setup this weekend. If that was the only change then he's done really well to adapt his driving style to match someone else's.
It wasn’t. Not to labour the point, he had the new wing. For the first time. 
mattikake said:
REALIST123 said:
mattikake said:
It was said many times he was using verstappen's setup this weekend. If that was the only change then he's done really well to adapt his driving style to match someone else's.
It wasn’t. Not to labour the point, he had the new wing. For the first time. I'm not aware of any other time they've run different spec parts, though Austria does suggest that Max will get any new parts first.
I'm sure, as you say, if Max had newer parts regularly, then Helmut and Christian would be saying that rather than what they are actually saying, which is they think Pierre is underperforming and needs to get faster.
Silverstone was a big difference got Pierre. maybe the wing solved something with the car that Max could drive around and he couldn't. Maybe his setup was just all wrong and using Max's has been the difference, though setup didn't seem to be a problem for him in a Torro Rosso. Maybe he's just figured something out in his own head. Maybe he just really likes Silverstone.
There are two changes prior to Silverstone that I've seen hit the press. One is the wing, the other is sharing Max's setup.
kiseca said:
mattikake said:
REALIST123 said:
mattikake said:
It was said many times he was using verstappen's setup this weekend. If that was the only change then he's done really well to adapt his driving style to match someone else's.
It wasn’t. Not to labour the point, he had the new wing. For the first time. I'm not aware of any other time they've run different spec parts, though Austria does suggest that Max will get any new parts first.
I'm sure, as you say, if Max had newer parts regularly, then Helmut and Christian would be saying that rather than what they are actually saying, which is they think Pierre is underperforming and needs to get faster.
Silverstone was a big difference got Pierre. maybe the wing solved something with the car that Max could drive around and he couldn't. Maybe his setup was just all wrong and using Max's has been the difference, though setup didn't seem to be a problem for him in a Torro Rosso. Maybe he's just figured something out in his own head. Maybe he just really likes Silverstone.
There are two changes prior to Silverstone that I've seen hit the press. One is the wing, the other is sharing Max's setup.
Other than possibly Australia, when they were short of some parts, possibly because of Gasly’s disastrous Barcelona test, they’ve had the same car.
In both cases they promoted the junior driver too soon when they were taken by surprise by a senior driver leaving. It's just bad planning and poor management, as much as you can blame the incoming drivers for not performing.
In their current situation, Kvyat is clearly the most sensible choice for the seat. He's by far the most experienced of the bunch, and is much more mature now than he was. He also has something to prove, as it was he that was dropped to place Max in the big team. Albon is still too inexperienced, and they risk breaking him as they have done to Gasly. It would be worth switching Gasly and Kvyat for a while, to give Gasly time to gain more experience and rebuild his confidence in a lower pressure environment.
In their current situation, Kvyat is clearly the most sensible choice for the seat. He's by far the most experienced of the bunch, and is much more mature now than he was. He also has something to prove, as it was he that was dropped to place Max in the big team. Albon is still too inexperienced, and they risk breaking him as they have done to Gasly. It would be worth switching Gasly and Kvyat for a while, to give Gasly time to gain more experience and rebuild his confidence in a lower pressure environment.
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