Would a London Grand Prix kill off the Silverstone race?
Discussion
I think the other issue is timing.
It would have to be no earlier than May (can still snow/frost in April), and no later than October.
Therefore you would have 2 events competing for a similar enthusiast wallet spend in a May-June-July-Sept timeframe.
London doesn't struggle with tourism in the summer, so May or Sept? Both already crowded.
Unless you made them back to back races...
It would have to be no earlier than May (can still snow/frost in April), and no later than October.
Therefore you would have 2 events competing for a similar enthusiast wallet spend in a May-June-July-Sept timeframe.
London doesn't struggle with tourism in the summer, so May or Sept? Both already crowded.
Unless you made them back to back races...
chunder27 said:
The contract was signed by someone who knew what they were signing, and were stupid enough to sign it all those years ago, I have no sympathy. Nurburgring and one or two others said many years ago "f*** you it's too dear, and fair play to them.
I'm guessing that's why they put in the break clause that has been exercised: the economics looked OK but marginal, so stick in a break clause in case the numbers stopped stacking up.chunder27 said:
The contract was signed by someone who knew what they were signing, and were stupid enough to sign it all those years ago, I have no sympathy. Nurburgring and one or two others said many years ago "f*** you it's too dear, and fair play to them.
An event that costs that much to attend is frankly crazy, then you read comments about people being charged 30 odd quid to park their car for a day and it becomes embarrassing and rather worrying to be honest.
This is what I don't understand about modern F1 fans and their desperation to see F1 in this country, it's expensive anywhere admittedly, but other venues are SO SO SO much nicer and more of an event.
Look at what Australis does on an F1 weekend, it is what F1 should be every country it visits, a celebration of motorsport in that country, at Silverstone it is all tied up in contracts series that HAVE to be there, and the lack of space (laughable in an area so big) means nothing else can race there.
There should be BTCC on, British GT, celeb races, top historic stuff, just like it used to be, not the boring, tried same noise stuff that is offered up now.
Yet, as I say they still keep falling off the cliff edge every year, bless em.
Aussie GP gets help from its local government. An event that costs that much to attend is frankly crazy, then you read comments about people being charged 30 odd quid to park their car for a day and it becomes embarrassing and rather worrying to be honest.
This is what I don't understand about modern F1 fans and their desperation to see F1 in this country, it's expensive anywhere admittedly, but other venues are SO SO SO much nicer and more of an event.
Look at what Australis does on an F1 weekend, it is what F1 should be every country it visits, a celebration of motorsport in that country, at Silverstone it is all tied up in contracts series that HAVE to be there, and the lack of space (laughable in an area so big) means nothing else can race there.
There should be BTCC on, British GT, celeb races, top historic stuff, just like it used to be, not the boring, tried same noise stuff that is offered up now.
Yet, as I say they still keep falling off the cliff edge every year, bless em.
The main plain problem is conflicting interests. FOM/Liberty holds the rights to content within the GP weekend which is why BTCC doesn't support it anymore and why Aussie V8s ran non-championship races (conflicting TV contracts the other).
chunder27 said:
The contract was signed by someone who knew what they were signing, and were stupid enough to sign it all those years ago, I have no sympathy. Nurburgring and one or two others said many years ago "f*** you it's too dear, and fair play to them.
Nobody knows the exact deal in place other than the BRDC and Liberty but has been widely reported that Silverstone pays amongst the least amount to host the GP. Opinions vary on this but mine is that the BRDC lack the commercial nous from within their ranks to make the whole thing viable. The one time they brought someone in from the outside to look at it (forget his name; the Sainsbury's chap...'King', was it?); they managed to turn a modest profit on the event. He went and they went back to making a loss. chunder27 said:
This is what I don't understand about modern F1 fans and their desperation to see F1 in this country, it's expensive anywhere admittedly, but other venues are SO SO SO much nicer and more of an event.
They're not really. The settings may be more alluring but the actual venues are no better or worse. At a fundamental level, they're all just strips of tarmac in a field (or City) with some buildings and seats. Imola is crumbling. São Paulo went way past its best-by date. With a couple of exceptions I wouldn't say any other venue is any better or any worse.Viewing at Silverstone has improved a lot. From the banking at Becketts you can see the cars as they rise up from Copse all the way down to Stowe and then as the go through the Loop and Aintree. That's not far off half the track visible.
But these sorts of races - events even - is about being there, not just the race itself. I was fortunate enough to go to Monaco GP some years back. Grandstand seats opposite the pits. As a spectating experience it was utter crap but remains one of the highlights of my Motor Sport Following life so far. Le Mans is a 9-mile circuit, the fastest cars take 3.5mins to go round. You can only watch cars on about 30% of the circuit but is still a fabulous event to attend.
chunder27 said:
Look at what Australis does on an F1 weekend, it is what F1 should be every country it visits, a celebration of motorsport in that country, at Silverstone it is all tied up in contracts series that HAVE to be there, and the lack of space (laughable in an area so big) means nothing else can race there.
There should be BTCC on, British GT, celeb races, top historic stuff, just like it used to be, not the boring, tried same noise stuff that is offered up now.
There really isn't the space....or the time. The footprint of F1 has grown as has that for the BTCC. They already run F2 and I believe F3 (or GP3 whatever it's called this week). BTCC run three races at 40 mins each. Add to that the 30 min grid assembly time and post race stuff, you're looking at a total of around 4 hours racing. Plus, if one of the BTCC cars goes off and damages the armco or something else, there is the risk that the start of the GP could be delayed which impacts on TV schedules and the like.There should be BTCC on, British GT, celeb races, top historic stuff, just like it used to be, not the boring, tried same noise stuff that is offered up now.
It's not that I don't like the idea but in today's world, it's not possible.
Australia can run a few other races because they don't carry rounds for F2 or F3.
You know what, sod London and sod the British GP. Break out the studded snow tyres and inaugurate a new Norwegian Grand Prix as a December season-closer! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Circle_Race...
And there is the rub.
It is about the events, not the race, that is why I dislike it.
I had more fun watching toursiten fahrten at the Ring and a few club races there than any DF1 race I went to in the 90's.
To busy, too expensive, too corporate.
Horses for courses I guess, and never will be my thing again, I don't think I would even go now if I was given a free ticket to be honest.
It is about the events, not the race, that is why I dislike it.
I had more fun watching toursiten fahrten at the Ring and a few club races there than any DF1 race I went to in the 90's.
To busy, too expensive, too corporate.
Horses for courses I guess, and never will be my thing again, I don't think I would even go now if I was given a free ticket to be honest.
RoverP6B said:
Silverstone as a track is as dull as dishwater, and always has been. Rip up the circuit, tear down that eyesore "Wing" building and return it to being what it was designed to be - an airfield. Ditto Snetterton, Croft etc. If there's one type of circuit even more guaranteed to produce boring racing, it's WW2 bomber airfields...
Take the F1 back to Brands, maybe extend the track for a longer lap if possible, but keep it broadly as it is and stuff sweaty Nomex in the mouth of anyone who suggests big tarmac run-off zones.
The London GP would be a fantastic money-spinner if put on in the West End - Whitehall, the Mall, Regent Street sort of area. If they put it on down in Tower Hamlets, forget it - it'd look like Singapore without any of the glamour. Valencia was a rubbish circuit but the setting was fantastic, with those beautiful Art Nouveau buildings beside the track.
Perhaps a question for another thread, but if the UK was to build its own Spa/Nürburgring, where to put it? Maybe using existing road layouts as Spa originally did?
100% agreeTake the F1 back to Brands, maybe extend the track for a longer lap if possible, but keep it broadly as it is and stuff sweaty Nomex in the mouth of anyone who suggests big tarmac run-off zones.
The London GP would be a fantastic money-spinner if put on in the West End - Whitehall, the Mall, Regent Street sort of area. If they put it on down in Tower Hamlets, forget it - it'd look like Singapore without any of the glamour. Valencia was a rubbish circuit but the setting was fantastic, with those beautiful Art Nouveau buildings beside the track.
Perhaps a question for another thread, but if the UK was to build its own Spa/Nürburgring, where to put it? Maybe using existing road layouts as Spa originally did?
projectgt said:
RoverP6B said:
Silverstone as a track is as dull as dishwater, and always has been. Rip up the circuit, tear down that eyesore "Wing" building and return it to being what it was designed to be - an airfield. Ditto Snetterton, Croft etc. If there's one type of circuit even more guaranteed to produce boring racing, it's WW2 bomber airfields...
Take the F1 back to Brands, maybe extend the track for a longer lap if possible, but keep it broadly as it is and stuff sweaty Nomex in the mouth of anyone who suggests big tarmac run-off zones.
The London GP would be a fantastic money-spinner if put on in the West End - Whitehall, the Mall, Regent Street sort of area. If they put it on down in Tower Hamlets, forget it - it'd look like Singapore without any of the glamour. Valencia was a rubbish circuit but the setting was fantastic, with those beautiful Art Nouveau buildings beside the track.
Perhaps a question for another thread, but if the UK was to build its own Spa/Nürburgring, where to put it? Maybe using existing road layouts as Spa originally did?
100% agreeTake the F1 back to Brands, maybe extend the track for a longer lap if possible, but keep it broadly as it is and stuff sweaty Nomex in the mouth of anyone who suggests big tarmac run-off zones.
The London GP would be a fantastic money-spinner if put on in the West End - Whitehall, the Mall, Regent Street sort of area. If they put it on down in Tower Hamlets, forget it - it'd look like Singapore without any of the glamour. Valencia was a rubbish circuit but the setting was fantastic, with those beautiful Art Nouveau buildings beside the track.
Perhaps a question for another thread, but if the UK was to build its own Spa/Nürburgring, where to put it? Maybe using existing road layouts as Spa originally did?
Austria also has good undulation - providing good racing.
RoverP6B said:
Silverstone as a track is as dull as dishwater, and always has been. Rip up the circuit, tear down that eyesore "Wing" building and return it to being what it was designed to be - an airfield. Ditto Snetterton, Croft etc. If there's one type of circuit even more guaranteed to produce boring racing, it's WW2 bomber airfields...
Take the F1 back to Brands, maybe extend the track for a longer lap if possible, but keep it broadly as it is and stuff sweaty Nomex in the mouth of anyone who suggests big tarmac run-off zones.
The London GP would be a fantastic money-spinner if put on in the West End - Whitehall, the Mall, Regent Street sort of area. If they put it on down in Tower Hamlets, forget it - it'd look like Singapore without any of the glamour. Valencia was a rubbish circuit but the setting was fantastic, with those beautiful Art Nouveau buildings beside the track.
Perhaps a question for another thread, but if the UK was to build its own Spa/Nürburgring, where to put it? Maybe using existing road layouts as Spa originally did?
I disagree that Silverstone was always a dull track.Take the F1 back to Brands, maybe extend the track for a longer lap if possible, but keep it broadly as it is and stuff sweaty Nomex in the mouth of anyone who suggests big tarmac run-off zones.
The London GP would be a fantastic money-spinner if put on in the West End - Whitehall, the Mall, Regent Street sort of area. If they put it on down in Tower Hamlets, forget it - it'd look like Singapore without any of the glamour. Valencia was a rubbish circuit but the setting was fantastic, with those beautiful Art Nouveau buildings beside the track.
Perhaps a question for another thread, but if the UK was to build its own Spa/Nürburgring, where to put it? Maybe using existing road layouts as Spa originally did?
1990
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppNgbAsljlE
sparta6 said:
projectgt said:
RoverP6B said:
Silverstone as a track is as dull as dishwater, and always has been. Rip up the circuit, tear down that eyesore "Wing" building and return it to being what it was designed to be - an airfield. Ditto Snetterton, Croft etc. If there's one type of circuit even more guaranteed to produce boring racing, it's WW2 bomber airfields...
Take the F1 back to Brands, maybe extend the track for a longer lap if possible, but keep it broadly as it is and stuff sweaty Nomex in the mouth of anyone who suggests big tarmac run-off zones.
The London GP would be a fantastic money-spinner if put on in the West End - Whitehall, the Mall, Regent Street sort of area. If they put it on down in Tower Hamlets, forget it - it'd look like Singapore without any of the glamour. Valencia was a rubbish circuit but the setting was fantastic, with those beautiful Art Nouveau buildings beside the track.
Perhaps a question for another thread, but if the UK was to build its own Spa/Nürburgring, where to put it? Maybe using existing road layouts as Spa originally did?
100% agreeTake the F1 back to Brands, maybe extend the track for a longer lap if possible, but keep it broadly as it is and stuff sweaty Nomex in the mouth of anyone who suggests big tarmac run-off zones.
The London GP would be a fantastic money-spinner if put on in the West End - Whitehall, the Mall, Regent Street sort of area. If they put it on down in Tower Hamlets, forget it - it'd look like Singapore without any of the glamour. Valencia was a rubbish circuit but the setting was fantastic, with those beautiful Art Nouveau buildings beside the track.
Perhaps a question for another thread, but if the UK was to build its own Spa/Nürburgring, where to put it? Maybe using existing road layouts as Spa originally did?
Austria also has good undulation - providing good racing.
The only circuit in the UK capable of hosting an F1 race is Silverstone. Anyone who says its dull as dishwater can't have been there (recently or otherwise) or raced there. Admittedly there are other circuits which are excellent (Croft, Oulton Park, Cadwell Park and Brands Hatch Indy and GP, and Donington Park as well) but none of them will ever be able to host F1 they're too small and parochial for modern F1.
I tend to go to watch the WEC at Silverstone and ELMS races - amazing events and great value.
London GP? Can't see it happening. Everyone has an idea about what it would be like but would all disagree...
I agree with those that say the issue is with modern F1 all the aero tricks and 'dirty air' stop them from challenging for position. They've messed with the Formula a little too much and only have themselves to blame for the on track spectacle we're currently left with.
eps said:
Not Cadwell Park? Although maybe more a mini Nurburgring..
The only circuit in the UK capable of hosting an F1 race is Silverstone. Anyone who says its dull as dishwater can't have been there (recently or otherwise) or raced there. Admittedly there are other circuits which are excellent (Croft, Oulton Park, Cadwell Park and Brands Hatch Indy and GP, and Donington Park as well) but none of them will ever be able to host F1 they're too small and parochial for modern F1.
Silverstone was excellent with the mighty Bridge section. "It might still be slightly damp under there sir"The only circuit in the UK capable of hosting an F1 race is Silverstone. Anyone who says its dull as dishwater can't have been there (recently or otherwise) or raced there. Admittedly there are other circuits which are excellent (Croft, Oulton Park, Cadwell Park and Brands Hatch Indy and GP, and Donington Park as well) but none of them will ever be able to host F1 they're too small and parochial for modern F1.
Ultimately it's all about money.
Monaco is pretty small
Here’s Sir Lewis & Lord Brundle..
Upcoming feature, not on our watch to lose Silverstone..
https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/11472082342...
Upcoming feature, not on our watch to lose Silverstone..
https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/11472082342...
sparta6 said:
eps said:
Not Cadwell Park? Although maybe more a mini Nurburgring..
The only circuit in the UK capable of hosting an F1 race is Silverstone. Anyone who says its dull as dishwater can't have been there (recently or otherwise) or raced there. Admittedly there are other circuits which are excellent (Croft, Oulton Park, Cadwell Park and Brands Hatch Indy and GP, and Donington Park as well) but none of them will ever be able to host F1 they're too small and parochial for modern F1.
Silverstone was excellent with the mighty Bridge section. "It might still be slightly damp under there sir"The only circuit in the UK capable of hosting an F1 race is Silverstone. Anyone who says its dull as dishwater can't have been there (recently or otherwise) or raced there. Admittedly there are other circuits which are excellent (Croft, Oulton Park, Cadwell Park and Brands Hatch Indy and GP, and Donington Park as well) but none of them will ever be able to host F1 they're too small and parochial for modern F1.
Ultimately it's all about money.
Monaco is pretty small
I agree on Bridge corner a massive loss. I was lucky enough to race on the International configuration when it still included that corner. Can't imagine what it would be like in an F1 car. To be fair Copse is still a sensational corner, blind apex on entry and quick and Maggotts & Becketts is sublime.
I actually think we could handle a Silverstone race and a London race. As others have said Silverstone may be £££ but London would surely be ££££.
eps said:
I actually think we could handle a Silverstone race and a London race. As others have said Silverstone may be £££ but London would surely be ££££.
It could be a little less, Say 40 million in street race costs, grandstands, staff, barriers.
20 million host fee.
Title sponsor 15 million ( no shortage for London).
4 sub sponsor for 5 mill each.
Sell 200,000 tickets for £250 turn Hyde park into camping...
I reckon you could clear 15/20 mill.
Deesee said:
It could be a little less,
Say 40 million in street race costs, grandstands, staff, barriers.
20 million host fee.
Title sponsor 15 million ( no shortage for London).
4 sub sponsor for 5 mill each.
Sell 200,000 tickets for £250 turn Hyde park into camping...
I reckon you could clear 15/20 mill.
You're in the right ballpark Say 40 million in street race costs, grandstands, staff, barriers.
20 million host fee.
Title sponsor 15 million ( no shortage for London).
4 sub sponsor for 5 mill each.
Sell 200,000 tickets for £250 turn Hyde park into camping...
I reckon you could clear 15/20 mill.
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