Fernando Alonso

Fernando Alonso

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Discussion

Vaud

37,671 posts

113 months

Friday 26th July 2019
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KevinCamaroSS said:
As was MS. This sort of behaviour is why I will always rate LH higher than either MS or FA.
I agree with the sentiment, but will wait for the end of his career first to make the comparison; he will probably continue to be pretty flawless.

TobyTR

911 posts

104 months

Sunday 28th July 2019
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Vaud said:
Exige77 said:
Fred is not my favourite driver but it must be said he’s not one to fold under pressure.
Not on the racing track, instead he blocked his team mate in the pits and tried to blackmail Ron Dennis... after having significant pressure from his rookie team mate.

That's folding under pressure. He should have just proven his speed vs Hamilton.
Yes, but let's have it right - he blocked Hamilton in the pits in retaliation to Hamilton ignoring multiple team orders at the beginning of Qualifying:

"McLaren's solution to this after the controversy of Monaco was to ensure both drivers had equal fuel loads for their qualifying runs - and to alternate who had the favourable race fuel strategy. In Hungary, it was Alonso's turn to have priority. That should have meant that he left the pits first and did the most fuel-burn laps. This conferred a double advantage - it would not only give him a lighter car when he did his final qualifying run, but also more fuel for the first stint of the race. But that is not what happened. Hamilton left the garage first and was at the head of the queue waiting to go out at the start of the session, with Alonso behind. As soon as the cars had left the pits, the team radioed Hamilton to let Alonso past so they could run to the plan. But he ignored repeated requests. Dennis even came on the radio to him, but still Hamilton did not comply. Alonso was now at a disadvantage - he would not only have more fuel in his car when he did his qualifying runs, but he would get less back for the start of the race. He was shouting on the radio, asking why Hamilton was not letting him by. Then, he took matters into his own hands."

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/46226823

Vaud

37,671 posts

113 months

Monday 29th July 2019
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Yes, I know. But he also trued to blackmail Ron Dennis to beat Lewis.

That is folding under pressure.

ELUSIVEJIM

Original Poster:

7,911 posts

109 months

Monday 29th July 2019
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TobyTR

911 posts

104 months

Monday 29th July 2019
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Vaud said:
Yes, I know. But he also trued to blackmail Ron Dennis to beat Lewis.

That is folding under pressure.
That's not folding under pressure, that's reacting angrily and out-of-order to the situation.

If he folded under the pressure, he wouldn't have rebounded in the race to finish 4th in the race from 6th on the grid the next day, or beat Lewis in 5 of the next 6 races, with the team very much against him from that point on. It was a team-suicidal stupid thing for Alonso to say in that heat of moment, but on grand prix weekends (where it matters) he certainly didn't fold under pressure - despite all of that.

Even though Hamilton started the argument, both should have been punished, to be fair. Clearly both drivers were putting themselves above the team in their efforts to win the title. And as a result, neither won.

Would Lewis have got away with his Hungary qualifying behaviour in another team? Almost certainly not. How would we all feel on here if Bottas did the same to Lewis in a Qualifying session and ignore multiple requests to let Lewis pass as per team strategy and thus put him at a significant disadvantage? We would all be jumping up-and-down... and rightly so.

Ultimately, in the 2007 season Hamilton and Alonso got exactly what they deserved by failing to get on with the job at hand.

A classic case of sibling rivalry: I'm going to outdo you at all costs.

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/212557/1/dennis-poin...


Edited by TobyTR on Monday 29th July 22:59

37chevy

3,280 posts

114 months

Monday 29th July 2019
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You’re assuming the Hungary qualifying situation was the first strike, who knows what went on behind closed doors to get to that point....

...I suspect Alonso was rattled and tensions grew, long befor that point

TobyTR

911 posts

104 months

Monday 29th July 2019
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37chevy said:
You’re assuming the Hungary qualifying situation was the first strike, who knows what went on behind closed doors to get to that point....

...I suspect Alonso was rattled and tensions grew, long befor that point
Not at all. I posted in the Lewis Hamilton thread in great detail how it kicked off big time at Monaco that year, and wasn't the same after. Have a read of what happened at Monaco:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/46225204


Vaud

37,671 posts

113 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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I did't say he folded on track. He has always been very strong.

I meant with the threat of Hamilton he folded internally and went nuclear (through the season) - actions that he would never have repeated with the benefit of hindsight.

Deeply flawed genius driver.

angrymoby

1,246 posts

136 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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TobyTR said:
Not at all. I posted in the Lewis Hamilton thread in great detail how it kicked off big time at Monaco that year, and wasn't the same after. Have a read of what happened at Monaco:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/46225204
Top Tip 1: don't expect no.1 status if it's not in your contract
Top Tip 2: don't join a team notorious for driver parity, if you want no.1 status

I suspect Alonso didn't think he needed to bother with the hassle of negotiating no.1 status, as he'd have had a pretty good idea who would (or more precisely -wouldn't) be in the second car

He only started asking for no.1 status when he realised how quick the rookie was



Edited by angrymoby on Tuesday 30th July 08:12

Deesee

4,532 posts

41 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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Ah the first nail in the coffin..

https://youtu.be/mLG-POZihAw

..

FA great racing driver, rubbish F1 driver

TobyTR

911 posts

104 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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Deesee said:
Ah the first nail in the coffin..

https://youtu.be/mLG-POZihAw

..

FA great racing driver, rubbish F1 driver
And what were the finishing results for that race?...

"rubbish F1 driver" - LOL.

Deesee

4,532 posts

41 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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TobyTR said:
And what were the finishing results for that race?...

"rubbish F1 driver" - LOL.
Great racing driver...

angrymoby

1,246 posts

136 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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don't think you can label Alonso anything but one of F1's greatest drivers ...if he'd timed his career moves better, or negotiated his contracts a bit better he'd be at least a x4 WDC by now

glazbagun

10,964 posts

155 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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Honda celebrate GP2 victories in 2019. laugh

https://twitter.com/HondaRacingF1/status/115549570...

markcoznottz

5,925 posts

182 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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angrymoby said:
TobyTR said:
Not at all. I posted in the Lewis Hamilton thread in great detail how it kicked off big time at Monaco that year, and wasn't the same after. Have a read of what happened at Monaco:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/46225204
Top Tip 1: don't expect no.1 status if it's not in your contract
Top Tip 2: don't join a team notorious for driver parity, if you want no.1 status

I suspect Alonso didn't think he needed to bother with the hassle of negotiating no.1 status, as he'd have had a pretty good idea who would (or more precisely -wouldn't) be in the second car

He only started asking for no.1 status when he realised how quick the rookie was



Edited by angrymoby on Tuesday 30th July 08:12
I don't think McLaren have ever had a certified no1 driver, and Alonso probably thought he didn't need it. It's a really weird situation, where a two time champion was matched and sometimes beaten by a rookie. It's certainly the case that Alonso cannot get people behind him, at Renault flav protected him, at McLaren he was on his own. Rons a strange guy and hard to love. Although to be fair to Fred he's a two time world champ, supposedly the quickest in the pitlane, and he's just bested Schumacher two seasons running, he must have assumed the team would fall at his feet, and can you blame him. Maybe what he should of done was go to Ferrari 07.

ash73

19,259 posts

179 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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The bottom line is if Lewis had played the team game in his rookie season and supported Alonso they would have cleared up; instead they won nothing and lost everything. So Alonso was right.

Contrast with Leclerk's approach this year. The team comes first and he waits for the right opportunities to show everyone just how fast he is.

Europa1

10,923 posts

146 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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ash73 said:
The bottom line is if Lewis had played the team game in his rookie season and supported Alonso they would have cleared up; instead they won nothing and lost everything. So Alonso was right.

Contrast with Leclerk's approach this year. The team comes first and he waits for the right opportunities to show everyone just how fast he is.
Leclerc. It's bloody Leclerc! L-e-c-l-e-r-c.

Leclerk.


Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhh!

...and: breathe.

angrymoby

1,246 posts

136 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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Europa1 said:
Leclerc. It's bloody Leclerc! L-e-c-l-e-r-c.

Leclerk.


Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhh!

...and: breathe.
rofl

Teddy Lop

3,642 posts

25 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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ash73 said:
The bottom line is if Lewis had played the team game in his rookie season and supported Alonso they would have cleared up; instead they won nothing and lost everything. So Alonso was right.

Contrast with Leclerk's approach this year. The team comes first and he waits for the right opportunities to show everyone just how fast he is.
if Lewis had "played the team game" (as instructed by alonso) he'd still be chasing his first title.


In formula e.

ash73

19,259 posts

179 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
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I'm still getting used to it being one word.