The Official Japanese GP 2019 **Spoilers**
Discussion
jm doc said:
He was instructed to come in by the race director and didn't. By doing so he damaged another car and almost caused a very serious accident, the debris missed Hamilton's helmet by 6 inches travelling at 300kph. He should have been disqualified immediately.
They didn't disobey the race directors instruction to come in. The Ferrari pit wall told the race director they would be pitting him but when they saw he wasn't losing much time they changed their minds. The race director then instructed them to come in which they did. Very different situation to ignoring instructions which is what you're saying.Kraken said:
jm doc said:
He was instructed to come in by the race director and didn't. By doing so he damaged another car and almost caused a very serious accident, the debris missed Hamilton's helmet by 6 inches travelling at 300kph. He should have been disqualified immediately.
They didn't disobey the race directors instruction to come in. The Ferrari pit wall told the race director they would be pitting him but when they saw he wasn't losing much time they changed their minds. The race director then instructed them to come in which they did. Very different situation to ignoring instructions which is what you're saying.“After this second piece detached, the team felt the car was now in a safe condition and despite previously telling the Race Director that the car would be called to the pits, they told car 16 to remain out and not to pit.
“On lap 3 the Race Director called the team and directed the car be brought to the pits for inspection. Car 16 pitted at the end of lap 3.
“By not bringing car 16 into the pits at the end of lap 1, immediately after the incident for a safety inspection when there was damage clearly visible and then by telling the driver to remain out for an additional lap after telling the Race Director otherwise, the team created an unsafe condition on the circuit which only narrowly avoided being a major incident and also increased the likelihood of additional incidents after the one noted.”
They agreed with the race director to bring the car in. They didn't. If that piece of wing had hit Hamilton's visor at that speed it's no exageration to say that he might have been killed (look at the wing mirror). It was an absolute disgrace and the subsequent penalty a farce.
Edited by jm doc on Monday 14th October 13:59
jm doc said:
He was instructed to come in by the race director and didn't. By doing so he damaged another car and almost caused a very serious accident, the debris missed Hamilton's helmet by 6 inches travelling at 300kph. He should have been disqualified immediately.
Surely the race director doesn't talk directly to the driver? Ferrari as a team screwed up and put another car in danger and should have been (and indeed were) penalised for it. I have yet to see any evidence that it was Leclerc's decision, though.
kambites said:
Surely the race director doesn't talk directly to the driver?
Ferrari as a team screwed up and put another car in danger and should have been (and indeed were) penalised for it. I have yet to see any evidence that it was Leclerc's decision, though.
We did hear Leclerc refusing to come in on the radio. And after several attempts to convince him the team agreed (which I think is where they have made themselves guilty, as they had told the officials they were bringing him in).Ferrari as a team screwed up and put another car in danger and should have been (and indeed were) penalised for it. I have yet to see any evidence that it was Leclerc's decision, though.
Still all nonsense though - should have been a flag if the officials wanted him in, that’s what they’re there for.
jm doc said:
Kraken said:
jm doc said:
He was instructed to come in by the race director and didn't. By doing so he damaged another car and almost caused a very serious accident, the debris missed Hamilton's helmet by 6 inches travelling at 300kph. He should have been disqualified immediately.
They didn't disobey the race directors instruction to come in. The Ferrari pit wall told the race director they would be pitting him but when they saw he wasn't losing much time they changed their minds. The race director then instructed them to come in which they did. Very different situation to ignoring instructions which is what you're saying.“After this second piece detached, the team felt the car was now in a safe condition and despite previously telling the Race Director that the car would be called to the pits, they told car 16 to remain out and not to pit.
“On lap 3 the Race Director called the team and directed the car be brought to the pits for inspection. Car 16 pitted at the end of lap 3.
“By not bringing car 16 into the pits at the end of lap 1, immediately after the incident for a safety inspection when there was damage clearly visible and then by telling the driver to remain out for an additional lap after telling the Race Director otherwise, the team created an unsafe condition on the circuit which only narrowly avoided being a major incident and also increased the likelihood of additional incidents after the one noted.”
They agreed with the race director to bring the car in. They didn't. If that piece of wing had hit Hamilton's visor at that speed it's no exageration to say that he might have been killed (look at the wing mirror). It was an absolute disgrace and the subsequent penalty a farce.
Edited by jm doc on Monday 14th October 13:59
Something not quite right about stewarding at the moment.
I wonder if Charlie’s sad departure has allowed things to be loosened up too much.
CLC must have seen bits flying off. He does seem to be getting away with a lot, time will tell if it is favouritism or the new regime. He eventually got a five second penalty, two points and a further ten second penalty, all after the race and my betting says after the other teams would not let it go.
swisstoni said:
Hamilton was very lucky. If any part of him was hit by that end plate it would have been very bad.
Something not quite right about stewarding at the moment.
I wonder if Charlie’s sad departure has allowed things to be loosened up too much.
You’ve just mentioned something I’ve been thinking about since Spa - I think the GP weekends are desperately missing CW. In a way it’s hard not to miss him and hopefully the winter break will allow a level of ‘regrouping’.Something not quite right about stewarding at the moment.
I wonder if Charlie’s sad departure has allowed things to be loosened up too much.
Also surprised that no-ones mentioned Massa in relation to the CLC incident - admittedly that was a metal spring, but there’s no excuse at all to have allowed that situation. I believe the spring came from a Barrichello Brawn (no doubt someone will actually know the answer) but that was without warning - ignoring a potentially dangerous situation at any level of motorsport should be punished.
janesmith1950 said:
Hungrymc said:
...should have been a flag if the officials wanted him in, that’s what they’re there for.
Exactly. No backroom bulls
t on the radio or emails- use the flags, that's what they're for!!He’s had plenty rubs of the green as he’s the new chap that’s doing quite well but he takes a lot of liberties and complains a lot.
He’s starting to irritate a bit.
Hope Seb finishes third in the WDC.
Maybe next season he will be a bit more circumspect about stuff.
Hungrymc said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
HAM was on the radio saying his mediums were shot-people seem to think he should have stayed out for the one stopper when he himself was complaining it wouldn't work-I think that's right isn't it? I know the graphic showed his mediums in good condition but he said they were shot so perhaps their optimum speed was lost?
I doubt they think they can't risk HAM & BOT racing each other, they've proved many times they can.
It was the first stint when Ham was saying the tyres were dead. Lap 21 on the radio. He also complained that they’d left him out too long In the first stint and cost too much time.I doubt they think they can't risk HAM & BOT racing each other, they've proved many times they can.
Your optimum speed point is maybe fair. But could they really have overlooked the importance of track position again? He had 18 seconds over Seb when he came in.
E34-3.2 said:
The one overtake I am still puzzled with is Albon stockcar racing move. The guy ruined one of McLaren's cars by doing one of the worst manoeuvre of the year and still get away with it. Japan, Honda car? Surely not a remake of Ferrari and Monza biased stewards decisions...
Agreed, troubling that it wasn't't picked up on at all. I sense that the stewards have been asked to take a more lenient view lately and my rather one eyed take is that Ferrari are getting the benefit more than most.LaurasOtherHalf said:
Hungrymc said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
HAM was on the radio saying his mediums were shot-people seem to think he should have stayed out for the one stopper when he himself was complaining it wouldn't work-I think that's right isn't it? I know the graphic showed his mediums in good condition but he said they were shot so perhaps their optimum speed was lost?
I doubt they think they can't risk HAM & BOT racing each other, they've proved many times they can.
It was the first stint when Ham was saying the tyres were dead. Lap 21 on the radio. He also complained that they’d left him out too long In the first stint and cost too much time.I doubt they think they can't risk HAM & BOT racing each other, they've proved many times they can.
Your optimum speed point is maybe fair. But could they really have overlooked the importance of track position again? He had 18 seconds over Seb when he came in.
) and they brought him in, with the graphic showing 70% all round seemed a little odd, but the impression I got at the time was they didn't want to risk him 'doing a Verstappen' and going well off the pace at the end of the race, probably gambled that on softs he'd easily catch (correct) and get past (incorrect) Vettel.janesmith1950 said:
Hungrymc said:
...should have been a flag if the officials wanted him in, that’s what they’re there for.
Exactly. No backroom bullst on the radio or emails- use the flags, that's what they're for!!I think Lewis was party to the arrangement to "give" the win to VB. I had thought it was coming in one of the next two races and was keen to see how they would do it. The first clue to me was the length of time Lewis spent behind the damaged Ferrari of CLC. Normally I would have expected Lewis to pass a damaged Ferrari easily, but he did not even try and stayed behind him until CLC pitted (I think that took 3 laps). But for that Lewis would have been much closer to SV. And all the complaints and whinging from Lewis seemed excessive to me - he may be the best F1 driver but he's a useless actor (although he seems to have fooled most of the crap Sky presenters as no one asked him why had not passed CLC much earlier).
AM08JSM said:
I think Lewis was party to the arrangement to "give" the win to VB. I had thought it was coming in one of the next two races and was keen to see how they would do it. The first clue to me was the length of time Lewis spent behind the damaged Ferrari of CLC. Normally I would have expected Lewis to pass a damaged Ferrari easily, but he did not even try and stayed behind him until CLC pitted (I think that took 3 laps). But for that Lewis would have been much closer to SV. And all the complaints and whinging from Lewis seemed excessive to me - he may be the best F1 driver but he's a useless actor (although he seems to have fooled most of the crap Sky presenters as no one asked him why had not passed CLC much earlier).
Maybe Lewis could see the damage and knew LCC had to pit imminently but also knew LCC is partial to a bit of argy bargy even when all is lost.LCC is still quite inexperienced.
Exige77 said:
Maybe Lewis could see the damage and knew LCC had to pit imminently but also knew LCC is partial to a bit of argy bargy even when all is lost.
LCC is still quite inexperienced.
That's what I thought. CLC might have gone for a bit of late braking and, without full downforce, his front end might have washed out.LCC is still quite inexperienced.
LH has enough confidence in his own abilities to know he could make up the extra time.
The incident where shards of carbon fibre from LEC's wing showered Lewis's car and knocked his mirror off is probably the nastiest thing I have seen in a race for a long time. He could so easily have been very badly injured, or even killed - and that silly toilet seat thing they all have to have now wouldn't have done a thing to save him; the bits would have passed clean through.
On the other hand, that windshield idea of Red Bull's ...
On the other hand, that windshield idea of Red Bull's ...
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