Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?
Discussion
paulguitar said:
Bo_apex said:
Smollet said:
I can't recall if I've "contributed" to this thread before but my take is both had the dominant car most of the time but the difference being is that MS had no effective opposition from his teammate as the team orders were to let him win. Hamilton hasn't had that luxury re teammates so I'd put him ahead of Schumacher in the final reckoning.
It depends what we consider as opposition.Opposition from a team mate can be influenced and managed. We have seen that across all teams and all eras, including hybrid Mercedes. Opposition from a dominant rival team and driver cannot.
The opposition that McLaren and Williams provided Schumacher with was almighty.
Battling with fierce rival team opposition, Schumacher gets my vote.
Biggest minus point to me though is that he was a thoroughly dirty driver, and for that reason alone can't be considered the equal of Hamilton.
paulguitar said:
Bo_apex said:
Smollet said:
I can't recall if I've "contributed" to this thread before but my take is both had the dominant car most of the time but the difference being is that MS had no effective opposition from his teammate as the team orders were to let him win. Hamilton hasn't had that luxury re teammates so I'd put him ahead of Schumacher in the final reckoning.
It depends what we consider as opposition.Opposition from a team mate can be influenced and managed. We have seen that across all teams and all eras, including hybrid Mercedes. Opposition from a dominant rival team and driver cannot.
The opposition that McLaren and Williams provided Schumacher with was almighty.
Battling with fierce rival team opposition, Schumacher gets my vote.
Biggest minus point to me though is that he was a thoroughly dirty driver, and for that reason alone can't be considered the equal of Hamilton.
Mika and McLaren were amazing.
It's good that audiences see things in different ways - it would be a dull world otherwise
Bo_apex said:
Villeneuve and Hill were both strong competition in the ultra quick Williams.
Mika and McLaren were amazing.
It's good that audiences see things in different ways - it would be a dull world otherwise
Indeed it would. I will say again, I think Shuey was the best of his generation and he was often sensational against a usually better Williams.Mika and McLaren were amazing.
It's good that audiences see things in different ways - it would be a dull world otherwise
But, and it's a really big but, he was repeatedly dirty on the track. Unacceptable.
E34-3.2 said:
paulguitar said:
sparta6 said:
I agree - but Bottas is not a Top 6 driver and yet he sits at P2 in the WDC.
Mercedes could have Ricciardo alongside Hamilton, but that WOULD likely rock the boat
Seriously doubt that. I would expect Hamilton would win that battle just as he has won over every team mate he has ever had in his career.Mercedes could have Ricciardo alongside Hamilton, but that WOULD likely rock the boat
I remember Button once mentioning how sometime he thought he had beaten Hamilton nicely in a race only for the second to destroy Button in the next race or qualifying to remind him that he was still better than him. Must be tough to drive along a guy like Hamilton all year around.
NewUsername said:
I'm sure Jenson felt totally destroyed after scoring more points than Lewis over 3 years and only one less win......
In the universe where everyone else lives, where the results in F1 are counted up each year, Hamilton beat Button 2/1.It was usually a lot more one-sided than that suggests, however. Jenson had some great Sundays in the McLaren, but Hamilton was often almost embarrassingly better.
paulguitar said:
NewUsername said:
I'm sure Jenson felt totally destroyed after scoring more points than Lewis over 3 years and only one less win......
In the universe where everyone else lives, where the results in F1 are counted up each year, Hamilton beat Button 2/1.It was usually a lot more one-sided than that suggests, however. Jenson had some great Sundays in the McLaren, but Hamilton was often almost embarrassingly better.
Bo_apex said:
It depends what we consider as opposition.
Opposition from a team mate can be influenced and managed. We have seen that across all teams and all eras, including hybrid Mercedes. Opposition from a dominant rival team and driver cannot.
The opposition that McLaren and Williams provided Schumacher with was almighty.
Battling with fierce rival team opposition, Schumacher gets my vote.
Pretty much spot on. As a driver, in a team, they can only realistically judge their performance against their team mate, and know the degree of shenanigans employed by their own team, regarding favourable car / set up / team orders. Every other teams efforts, are pretty much an unknown quantity. Schumacher took the fight to some teams, who with hindsight, had really good cars and drivers, and managed to win against them, sometimes in cars of his, which ( again with hindsight) really weren’t considered up to it, by the engineers. And that is the mark of a true great. There have been numerous drivers, throughout the history of a Grand Prix racing, who have ticked this particular box. For example the engineers, and experienced team bosses, believe the car is good enough for a top ten, based on their experienced eyes, observing test sessions, and being able to judge where they think everyone is at, then the truly great driver, will routinely qualify top 3, and win, or podium, when the guys at the coal face realistically don’t expect anything like that result, knowing what they know. Alternatively, there are some drivers who are put in a car which is going to wipe the floor with everyone, even if driven by a crash test dummy / scarecrow, and people who really don’t know what they are watching, coo and fawn over those cars / drivers. Opposition from a team mate can be influenced and managed. We have seen that across all teams and all eras, including hybrid Mercedes. Opposition from a dominant rival team and driver cannot.
The opposition that McLaren and Williams provided Schumacher with was almighty.
Battling with fierce rival team opposition, Schumacher gets my vote.
NewUsername said:
You are of course entitled to your opinion but the facts are the facts, and using words like destroyed as E3.4etc etc has is idiotic given the final result, which despite the opinions you hold are in black and white in the record books.
We all know that old saying about stats...James Allen did a good analysis of Hamilton vs Button adjusted for mechanical failures, etc, and there is another one here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/377rhp/...
If you honestly believe Jenson to be in Hamilton's class, you have a right to that opinion. I'd say it's pretty eccentric though!
paulguitar said:
NewUsername said:
You are of course entitled to your opinion but the facts are the facts, and using words like destroyed as E3.4etc etc has is idiotic given the final result, which despite the opinions you hold are in black and white in the record books.
We all know that old saying about stats...James Allen did a good analysis of Hamilton vs Button adjusted for mechanical failures, etc, and there is another one here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/377rhp/...
If you honestly believe Jenson to be in Hamilton's class, you have a right to that opinion. I'd say it's pretty eccentric though!
As for the 'analysis' its a fine time to trot out the fact that if my aunty had a big hairy pair of balls she'd be my uncle
Edited by NewUsername on Monday 21st October 13:44
NewUsername said:
The point i was making was that its idiotic to say 'destroyed' because he clearly wasn't..... Verstappen vs Gasly was destroyed for example
I'd agree he was not destroyed, and actually he really gave Lewis something to think about from time to time which I think came as a bit of a shock to Hamilton!paulguitar said:
NewUsername said:
The point i was making was that its idiotic to say 'destroyed' because he clearly wasn't..... Verstappen vs Gasly was destroyed for example
I'd agree he was not destroyed, and actually he really gave Lewis something to think about from time to time which I think came as a bit of a shock to Hamilton!Not exactly the hyperbole thrashing that E3.4.22.22.2.2.2. was infering in his blind fanboi bum tonguing of LH
NewUsername said:
paulguitar said:
GOATever said:
Some reasonable stuff.
I do have a question for the Schumacher supporters...How much do you think his lack of morals on track detracts from his legacy and ranking amongst the greats?
And I say that as someone who has this on the living room wall:
NewUsername said:
I'm sure Jenson felt totally destroyed after scoring more points than Lewis over 3 years and only one less win......
me & a mate went crappy indoor Karting at the weekend ...he won 2 races by a couple of seconds, i won 1 by 10 seconds (he'd spun out whilst leading)funnily enough, he doesn't accept that i'm clearly the better driver
that's how stupid yours & my argument sounds
NewUsername said:
You are of course entitled to your opinion but the facts are the facts, and using words like destroyed as E3.4etc etc has is idiotic given the final result, which despite the opinions you hold are in black and white in the record books.
Destroyed was the word used by Button at the time of the interview.Yes, in the record book from the FIA, button lost 2 seasons out of 3 to Hamilton. Never heard of a sport where the results are calculated in 3 years period...
kiseca said:
sparta6 said:
Sitting 2nd in the WDC, Bottas underscores how flattering and dominant the Brackley package is.
Where was he in 2017 and 2018 then?Some interesting bedtime reading for Lewis as he cruises to another WDC
https://www.planetf1.com/news/schumi-couldve-won-m...
NewUsername said:
Exactly, on his day he was a match for anyone, however due to his love of a stable rear and and mild understeer his day was less often.
Not exactly the hyperbole thrashing that E3.4.22.22.2.2.2. was infering in his blind fanboi bum tonguing of LH
Oh dear, childish insults from a keyboard warrior. Not exactly the hyperbole thrashing that E3.4.22.22.2.2.2. was infering in his blind fanboi bum tonguing of LH
OK, you are 100% right Button never used that word, I must have forgotten my hearing aid on that day...
E34-3.2 said:
NewUsername said:
You are of course entitled to your opinion but the facts are the facts, and using words like destroyed as E3.4etc etc has is idiotic given the final result, which despite the opinions you hold are in black and white in the record books.
Destroyed was the word used by Button at the time of the interview.Yes, in the record book from the FIA, button lost 2 seasons out of 3 to Hamilton. Never heard of a sport where the results are calculated in 3 years period...
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