Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?
Discussion
when you're qualifying and beating your teammate on a regular basis and beating rival teams/drivers in better cars it doesn't really matter.
So going by that logic, Button had more points taken off him in 2011 by fighting with his teammate and so did Vettel in 2009, 2010 and 2011. Wow. Could Vettel have won the 2009 championship if he wasn't having to fight his teammate?
So going by that logic, Button had more points taken off him in 2011 by fighting with his teammate and so did Vettel in 2009, 2010 and 2011. Wow. Could Vettel have won the 2009 championship if he wasn't having to fight his teammate?
TobyTR said:
when you're qualifying and beating your teammate on a regular basis and beating rival teams/drivers in better cars it doesn't really matter.
Hamilton and Schumacher had a totally different set of circumstances, and Schumacher's were far more beneficial to himself.And yet, Hamilton will likely surpass him on every statistical level.
Even without accounting for MS's appalling lack of on-track moral integrity, that's pretty telling.
The hypothetical stuff you keep conjuring up is just noise.
paulguitar said:
TobyTR said:
when you're qualifying and beating your teammate on a regular basis and beating rival teams/drivers in better cars it doesn't really matter.
Hamilton and Schumacher had a totally different set of circumstances, and Schumacher's were far more beneficial to himself.And yet, Hamilton will likely surpass him on every statistical level.
Even without accounting for MS's appalling lack of on-track moral integrity, that's pretty telling.
The hypothetical stuff you keep conjuring up is just noise.
I fully expect Hamilton to surpass his total race win tally, given he is considerably younger than Schumacher was by 247 grand prix, and that Hamilton has at least another three seasons left in him with a more dominant car for a longer period
it's a no-brainer he should.So if Verstappen passes Hamilton's records because he's been racing longer, in more races and in more dominant cars, will you consider him better than Hamilton?...
I've provided more facts and evidence to back up what I'm saying than you and the other Schumacher haters/Hamilton lovers though. I've been applauded for my statistical breakdown and analysis. It's funny when the shoe is on the other foot and you call it hypothetical noise because it doesn't fit your agenda. You're basically saying Hamilton and Button took points off each other - well, Button still finished runner-up in 2011.
MS was not a true sportsman. A cheat and bully... his stats flatter him.
Hamilton has been the real deal since he was a child, dominating everything on the way up.
He had some s
te years (by his own standards) ... oh well.
MS couldn’t handle an equal playing field, didn’t want one - and had no shame in it. Not a good sportsman by anyone’s standards I would have thought. One way data shares, bespoke tyres, benefit of traction control, the list goes on and on.
Hamilton is on another level. Anyone with any logic can see that.
Hamilton has been the real deal since he was a child, dominating everything on the way up.
He had some s
te years (by his own standards) ... oh well.MS couldn’t handle an equal playing field, didn’t want one - and had no shame in it. Not a good sportsman by anyone’s standards I would have thought. One way data shares, bespoke tyres, benefit of traction control, the list goes on and on.
Hamilton is on another level. Anyone with any logic can see that.
TobyTR said:
That still doesn't explain why Hamilton wasn't fighting at the top-end 2009-2013.
He mostly was.TobyTR said:
So if Verstappen passes Hamilton's records because he's been racing longer, in more races and in more dominant cars, will you consider him better than Hamilton?...
Not if he continues to make far more mistakes, and bend the rules on track.TobyTR said:
I've been applauded
You are amazing. AMAZING.
TobyTR said:
No, Hamilton wasn't for 4 years. Unless you can find where he finished top-2 during those times....
The thing about F1, and sport, in general, is that genuine fans will realize it often is a bit less one-dimensional than looking purely at numbers. For example, Schumacher has 7 WDC titles and Stirling Moss, zero. Is that representative? Well, clearly, no. In just the same way, we can't factor in Schmacher's awful lack of integrity into his results, sadly. If we could, it would diminish them significantly... Hamilton had a useless car in 2009 for a lot of the season and was let down by the team many times in 2012.TobyTR said:
ou keep believing though ladies and gents, the Lewis Hamilton forum - where the Schumacher haters don't like facts and evidence.
It's not the 'Lewis Hamilton forum'. It's about 'Hamiton versus Schumacher'. The former seems to be considered here by more folks as the better driver. ladies and gents, the Lewis Hamilton forum - where the Schumacher haters don't like facts and evidence.You don't like that.
paulguitar said:
It's not the 'Lewis Hamilton forum'. It's about 'Hamiton versus Schumacher'. The former seems to be considered here by more folks as the better driver.
You don't like that.
He doesn’t, does he.You don't like that.
I think most normal people can’t stomach the s
t tactics employed by Schumacher.
vdn said:
paulguitar said:
It's not the 'Lewis Hamilton forum'. It's about 'Hamiton versus Schumacher'. The former seems to be considered here by more folks as the better driver.
You don't like that.
He doesn’t, does he.You don't like that.
I think most normal people can’t stomach the s
t tactics employed by Schumacher.Hamilton and Schumacher went head to head only once on track. Hamilton won.
mattikake said:
Should've been a poll on this thread. He'd like that even less than when hamilton lays to bed all of Schmacker's records...
Hamilton and Schumacher went head to head only once on track. Hamilton won.
On a biased British forum? It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Funnily enough, the worldwide F1 forums I frequent too have it the opposite. But I thoroughly enjoy shooting down your opinions with evidence and you having no answer to them. It's fantastic seeing you lot try and come up with every excuse in the book and scrabbling for more excuses why Button managed runner-up in 2011 and Hamilton didn't. Hamilton and Schumacher went head to head only once on track. Hamilton won.
keep it comingAre you another cretin comparing the old past-it Schumacher with a young Lewis Hamilton? If so that demonstrates your severe lack of intelligence. Good grief.
I'll leave this nugget here again: 91 wins from 246 races in less dominant machinery.
TobyTR said:
I'll leave this nugget here again: 91 wins from 246 races in less dominant machinery.
But with no interfering teammates, hence this debate. No need for name calling.fttm said:
Different eras but I would really like witness both of them head to head at their prime , in the same cars .Over the best of three races I reckon Lewis might edge it , then again time takes a toll on my memory regarding the Schuey years .
In fantasy land peak Schumi in his Ferrari vs team Merc with Lewis would be a titanic battle. In the same car I think Lewis would edge it due to his experience with world class team mates (though they'd crop eacch others WDC chances!) but in seperate teams it would be finer and probably involve lots of dirty driving from Schumacher.TobyTR said:
mattikake said:
Should've been a poll on this thread. He'd like that even less than when hamilton lays to bed all of Schmacker's records...
Hamilton and Schumacher went head to head only once on track. Hamilton won.
On a biased British forum? It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Funnily enough, the worldwide F1 forums I frequent too have it the opposite. Hamilton and Schumacher went head to head only once on track. Hamilton won.
Don"t make up a fact and use it as an argument.
TobyTR said:
But I thoroughly enjoy shooting down your opinions with evidence and you having no answer to them. It's fantastic seeing you lot try and come up with every excuse in the book and scrabbling for more excuses why Button managed runner-up in 2011 and Hamilton didn't. keep it coming
I haven't. Don"t put words in my mouth and then use that to argue against. That's fundamentalist behaviour. keep it comingAgain, Hamilton and Schumacher duelled wheel-to-wheel once in their careers and Hamilton did to him what he eventually does to everyone else - made them look inferior.
But that's ok. This kind of racecraft isn't everything of a driver.
TobyTR said:
Are you another cretin comparing the old past-it Schumacher with a young Lewis Hamilton? If so that demonstrates your severe lack of intelligence. Good grief.
But anyway; YES!You've resorted to insults in lieu of the very evidence you say you have.
You know what this means? Cognitive dissonance - You've lost. You only semi-consciously know it. You won't accept it. And it hurts. The result? Emotional outburst of a confused mind. (Seriously, look it up)
And no, cognitive dissonance is not an implication that you're stupid. Not yet anyway.
My job here is done.
mattikake said:
TobyTR said:
mattikake said:
Should've been a poll on this thread. He'd like that even less than when hamilton lays to bed all of Schmacker's records...
Hamilton and Schumacher went head to head only once on track. Hamilton won.
On a biased British forum? It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Funnily enough, the worldwide F1 forums I frequent too have it the opposite. Hamilton and Schumacher went head to head only once on track. Hamilton won.
Don"t make up a fact and use it as an argument.
TobyTR said:
But I thoroughly enjoy shooting down your opinions with evidence and you having no answer to them. It's fantastic seeing you lot try and come up with every excuse in the book and scrabbling for more excuses why Button managed runner-up in 2011 and Hamilton didn't. keep it coming
I haven't. Don"t put words in my mouth and then use that to argue against. That's fundamentalist behaviour. keep it comingAgain, Hamilton and Schumacher duelled wheel-to-wheel once in their careers and Hamilton did to him what he eventually does to everyone else - made them look inferior.
But that's ok. This kind of racecraft isn't everything of a driver.
TobyTR said:
Are you another cretin comparing the old past-it Schumacher with a young Lewis Hamilton? If so that demonstrates your severe lack of intelligence. Good grief.
But anyway; YES!You've resorted to insults in lieu of the very evidence you say you have.
You know what this means? Cognitive dissonance - You've lost. You only semi-consciously know it. You won't accept it. And it hurts. The result? Emotional outburst of a confused mind. (Seriously, look it up)
And no, cognitive dissonance is not an implication that you're stupid. Not yet anyway.
My job here is done.
paulguitar said:
It's even more amazing looking at those stats now actually, I did not realize it was as tight as that, but with Hamilton never having had number one status at any time.
It never ceases to amaze me to think that Schumacher's record looks set to be beaten so soon and so fairly. This is pretty much the first opportunity the universe has had for the next GOTE and it happens.I saw hamilton coming in the formula Renault uk feeder series (that wet race at Silverstone where he humiliated the entire pack and basically ended Tom Cicely's driving career). I knew he'd be a multiple f1 wdc right there. I spent a lot of excited years seeing him come through the ranks. I could see he'd be the next great of f1 and was simply stoked that he was British.
But I never expected that he would break every record going and set some unique ones of his own (like winning at least 1 race every year) along the way. Especially considering just how much Schumacher's position was engineered and that Hamilton has done it so sportingly using no more tools or advantages that any other driver in the field has access to.
It really is amazing to witness.
The come down after he's retired is going to be hard. Only then do people tend to get the recognition they deserve, which is sad for him really.
Bring on George Russell and keep Britain as the king of F1!
Edited by mattikake on Saturday 2nd November 10:16
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