Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?

Author
Discussion

macdeb

7,424 posts

203 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
Exige77 said:
Graveworm said:
Alonso was asked if Hamilton was better than Schumacher yesterday. He replied that he is "At least equal to"
And as I’ve said a few times, Hamilton’s career is not over yet. He keeps pumping in great performances while this thread is running.

Yesterday might not have been that exciting but what a performance !!

Not a foot wrong, fast, controlled, taking care of his tyres, on original 3 power trains allowed, pole, fastest lap, lap record and great way to finish the season.

This is a man (and team) and the very top of their profession.
yes easily as equal and in my eyes Hamilton is the greater. If you take the championship the Schumacker cheated Hill out of (yes, Cheated) they would now be equal championships.

MikeyC

701 posts

175 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
macdeb said:
If you take the championship the Schumacker cheated Hill out of (yes, Cheated) they would now be equal championships.
There's an interesting thread on G P Rejects if you can be bothered
A poster ibsey (not the OP, but someone who who starts posting near the bottom of P1) writes some of his findings after reading lots of articles from that year.
He has subsequently written a book about that year.

I should add he's not a particular fan of Mr Schumacher, Senna or Hill ...
Sadly, most of the YT video links have gone, but it makes interesting reading none the less

vdn

6,966 posts

151 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
Alonso knows that Lewis is a legend in the making; saying he's at least equal to MS when he hasn't even retired yet.

But; there's a few armchair experts on PH who know better!

hehe

sparta6

1,440 posts

48 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
macdeb said:
yes easily as equal and in my eyes Hamilton is the greater. If you take the championship the Schumacker cheated Hill out of (yes, Cheated) they would now be equal championships.
Damon Hill has since admitted he should never have gone for that Ever-Decreasing-Gap

Rookie mistake really

sparta6

1,440 posts

48 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
vdn said:
Alonso knows that Lewis is a legend in the making; saying he's at least equal to MS when he hasn't even retired yet.

But; there's a few armchair experts on PH who know better!

hehe
Well 7 is more than 6.

Lewis should cruise upto Schumacher's record in the amazing Mercedes next year.



paulguitar

3,937 posts

61 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
macdeb said:
yes easily as equal and in my eyes Hamilton is the greater. If you take the championship the Schumacker cheated Hill out of (yes, Cheated) they would now be equal championships.
Damon Hill has since admitted he should never have gone for that Ever-Decreasing-Gap

Rookie mistake really
Perhaps so, but i’d imagine even Damon was shocked that another driver would simply deliberately crash into him to seal the title.

Even 25 years on, I am still disgusted by Schumacher’s bahaviour that day. Sadly we came to see in future races it was a measure of his true character.

paulguitar

3,937 posts

61 months

Monday 2nd December
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
Lewis should cruise upto Schumacher's record in the amazing Mercedes next year.
Hopefully so, and without number one status or crashing into other drivers deliberately.




Mr Tidy

9,789 posts

75 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
Hopefully so, and without number one status or crashing into other drivers deliberately.
I really hope so - he has so much more class!

A44RON

171 posts

44 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
mattikake said:
To be clear, the F3 history with Mika was at Macau. Mika won race 1 from pole, race 2 Mika found himself behind Schumacher and upon overtaking, Schumacher simply shoved him into the wall on the main straight. I remember Mika getting out throwing his steering wheel on the floor. He wasn't slightly impressed...

Schumacher repeated the same in spa only mika backed out of it before he put him on the grass. How the pro-schumi camp can call this a "fair" fight, and "no dodgy moves" i find truly staggering. He cheated, again, and dangerously, again.

Fine squeeze someone to the edge of the track, but not beyond it or move to deny space BEFORE the other driver gets there, but don't do both. Dirt, cheat, ram.

At least mika got to use zonta with relative ease to show Schumacher's distinctly average battling skills. (The move to take zonta on the inside by Schumacher was as plain as it was obvious)
Okay that's one squeezing attempt at Spa in 2000, which Hakkinen came out on top and had no outcome on that championship - now how about the rest of that season - name us more examples of "dirt, cheat, ram" that year to prove he didn't win that title fairly

Schumacher won in a fair fight in 2000 but it doesn't suit your argument again.


Edited by A44RON on Tuesday 3rd December 03:25

A44RON

171 posts

44 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
37chevy said:
Think people forget how good Montoya was in the Williams and how close he came to winning the championship. Probably the best driver never to win if IMHO....and he has won the Indy500 and Daytona 500 since leaving F1
Montoya was quality and still one of my favourite drivers. Max Verstappen reminds me of Montoya a lot, but a bit more crashy/less spacial awareness

ELUSIVEJIM

7,731 posts

99 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
macdeb said:
Exige77 said:
Graveworm said:
Alonso was asked if Hamilton was better than Schumacher yesterday. He replied that he is "At least equal to"
And as I’ve said a few times, Hamilton’s career is not over yet. He keeps pumping in great performances while this thread is running.

Yesterday might not have been that exciting but what a performance !!

Not a foot wrong, fast, controlled, taking care of his tyres, on original 3 power trains allowed, pole, fastest lap, lap record and great way to finish the season.

This is a man (and team) and the very top of their profession.
yes easily as equal and in my eyes Hamilton is the greater. If you take the championship the Schumacker cheated Hill out of (yes, Cheated) they would now be equal championships.
laugh

Cheated Hill out of? Schumacher moved to Ferrari in 1996 to help Hill get one biggrin

ELUSIVEJIM

7,731 posts

99 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
Perhaps so, but i’d imagine even Damon was shocked that another driver would simply deliberately crash into him to seal the title.

Even 25 years on, I am still disgusted by Schumacher’s bahaviour that day. Sadly we came to see in future races it was a measure of his true character.
Hill wasn't even alongside Schumacher hence why the contact was with Schumacher's right rear and Hill front left.

You really need to let it go.

angrymoby

1,027 posts

126 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Hill wasn't even alongside Schumacher hence why the contact was with Schumacher's right rear and Hill front left.

You really need to let it go.
& you think Schumacher didn't do it deliberately?

HighwayStar

2,628 posts

92 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
paulguitar said:
Perhaps so, but i’d imagine even Damon was shocked that another driver would simply deliberately crash into him to seal the title.

Even 25 years on, I am still disgusted by Schumacher’s bahaviour that day. Sadly we came to see in future races it was a measure of his true character.
Hill wasn't even alongside Schumacher hence why the contact was with Schumacher's right rear and Hill front left.

You really need to let it go.
Schumacher's car was already done... He was a brilliant driver but flawed.... win at all costs. He turned in on Hill deliberately and got away with it. He did the same thing to Villeneuve... he didn't. Fantastic driver but resorting to such tactics, and not having the balls to admit any of it. Imagine the uproar if Lewis drove in he same manner......

sparta6

1,440 posts

48 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
HighwayStar said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
paulguitar said:
Perhaps so, but i’d imagine even Damon was shocked that another driver would simply deliberately crash into him to seal the title.

Even 25 years on, I am still disgusted by Schumacher’s bahaviour that day. Sadly we came to see in future races it was a measure of his true character.
Hill wasn't even alongside Schumacher hence why the contact was with Schumacher's right rear and Hill front left.

You really need to let it go.
Schumacher's car was already done... He was a brilliant driver but flawed.... win at all costs. He turned in on Hill deliberately and got away with it. He did the same thing to Villeneuve... he didn't. Fantastic driver but resorting to such tactics, and not having the balls to admit any of it. Imagine the uproar if Lewis drove in he same manner......
In the dominant Williams and on the verge of a WDC, Hill should have been patient for 30 seconds.

Entering an ever-decreasing-gap with Senna or Schumacher rarely worked for anyone.

Unfortunately Damon let the red mist take control

37chevy

3,280 posts

104 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
In the dominant Williams and on the verge of a WDC, Hill should have been patient for 30 seconds.

Entering an ever-decreasing-gap with Senna or Schumacher rarely worked for anyone.

Unfortunately Damon let the red mist take control
hardly dominant

and hindsight is a wonderful thing...hill had no idea schumachers car was damaged, it could have been his only chance to pass

HighwayStar

2,628 posts

92 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
sparta6 said:
HighwayStar said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
paulguitar said:
Perhaps so, but i’d imagine even Damon was shocked that another driver would simply deliberately crash into him to seal the title.

Even 25 years on, I am still disgusted by Schumacher’s bahaviour that day. Sadly we came to see in future races it was a measure of his true character.
Hill wasn't even alongside Schumacher hence why the contact was with Schumacher's right rear and Hill front left.

You really need to let it go.
Schumacher's car was already done... He was a brilliant driver but flawed.... win at all costs. He turned in on Hill deliberately and got away with it. He did the same thing to Villeneuve... he didn't. Fantastic driver but resorting to such tactics, and not having the balls to admit any of it. Imagine the uproar if Lewis drove in he same manner......
In the dominant Williams and on the verge of a WDC, Hill should have been patient for 30 seconds.

Entering an ever-decreasing-gap with Senna or Schumacher rarely worked for anyone.

Unfortunately Damon let the red mist take control
What.... he should've been 30secs clear and because he wasn't he shouldn't try. Schumacher had been off the track moments before and Hill isn't going to seize the opportunity? No point being on the track, being a racing driver if you're not actually going to take chances. Try to win.

Schumacher v Villeneuve 1997... Didn't pull it off this time though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt-3KT6ktHU


kiseca

7,722 posts

167 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
Damon has described himself as "not the best overtaker". He knows he screwed it up. He saw a gap and went for it, was at Michael's mercy and someone with more experience (Damon didn't start racing cars until relatively late in his life) may have evaluated the situation differently, even without knowing Michael had hit the wall just before.

Damon had a couple of similar collisions with Michael in 1995 as well, where he came from miles back and they both ended up out of the race. At Silverstone and Monza, if I recall.

Doesn't mean Michael didn't purposefully drive into him to secure his world championship though. As much as I think most drivers on the grid, in Damon's position, wouldn't have gone for that gap, I also think most drivers in Schumacher's position - at least the drivers back then in 1994 - wouldn't have turned in on Damon. Nowadays, I think things have changed enough that Damon would have had no chance of getting past any current driver with that move, but that is how the sport evolves I guess. Someone pushes the boundaries, they get away with it, it becomes the norm. And Schumacher wasn't the one who pushed this boundary. it was, ironically, possibly the cleanest driver of the 1980s... Prost.

EDITED - got my years wrong. The other collisions were in 1995, not 1996 - where for the first part of the year Schumacher was having an unusually good day if his Ferrari lasted all the way to the starting grid.


Edited by kiseca on Tuesday 3rd December 16:09


Edited by kiseca on Tuesday 3rd December 16:10

paulguitar

3,937 posts

61 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
ELUSIVEJIM said:
paulguitar said:
Perhaps so, but i’d imagine even Damon was shocked that another driver would simply deliberately crash into him to seal the title.

Even 25 years on, I am still disgusted by Schumacher’s bahaviour that day. Sadly we came to see in future races it was a measure of his true character.
Hill wasn't even alongside Schumacher hence why the contact was with Schumacher's right rear and Hill front left.

You really need to let it go.
As was discussed a bit earlier in the thread, really this comes down to whether personal integrity is considered important.

It’s a huge thing for me, which is why this is a big deal.

You must surely know deep down that Schumacher did it deliberately, but seemingly you don't care.



Graveworm

2,816 posts

19 months

Tuesday 3rd December
quotequote all
kiseca said:
Damon has described himself as "not the best overtaker". He knows he screwed it up. He saw a gap and went for it, was at Michael's mercy and someone with more experience (Damon didn't start racing cars until relatively late in his life) may have evaluated the situation differently, even without knowing Michael had hit the wall just before.

Damon had a couple of similar collisions with Michael in 1995 as well, where he came from miles back and they both ended up out of the race. At Silverstone and Monza, if I recall.

Doesn't mean Michael didn't purposefully drive into him to secure his world championship though. As much as I think most drivers on the grid, in Damon's position, wouldn't have gone for that gap, I also think most drivers in Schumacher's position - at least the drivers back then in 1994 - wouldn't have turned in on Damon. Nowadays, I think things have changed enough that Damon would have had no chance of getting past any current driver with that move, but that is how the sport evolves I guess. Someone pushes the boundaries, they get away with it, it becomes the norm. And Schumacher wasn't the one who pushed this boundary. it was, ironically, possibly the cleanest driver of the 1980s... Prost.

EDITED - got my years wrong. The other collisions were in 1995, not 1996 - where for the first part of the year Schumacher was having an unusually good day if his Ferrari lasted all the way to the starting grid.
They recently showed Hill and Herbert (Who went on to win) watching the '95 Silverstone GP and giving their thoughts. They were pretty clear that Schumacher was done when he strangely slowed, very early, unlike any other lap out wide, leaving loads of room on the inside then swept across when Hill went for the open door. Is it cheating or using the rules in a way they were never intended?