Lewis Hamilton Vs Michael Schumacher - Who Is Better?
Discussion
KevinCamaroSS said:
Based on facts and figures LH is better than MS based on the fact that he has nearly equalled his records and has done so with the minimum of cheating.
Hamilton has also done it in the most dominant and reliable car in F1 history.Prior to Lauda convincing him to join Mercedes, Hamilton was regularly banging wheels with Massa.
Sitting 2nd in the WDC, Bottas underscores how flattering and dominant the Brackley package is.
sparta6 said:
Hamilton has also done it in the most dominant and reliable car in F1 history.
That’s about rightsparta6 said:
Prior to Lauda convincing him to join Mercedes, Hamilton was regularly banging wheels with Massa.
Yep.sparta6 said:
Sitting 2nd in the WDC, Bottas underscores how flattering and dominant the Brackley package is.
Errrr, not quite. Bottas really isn’t the lap dog / suck puppy, some make him out to be. He knows on which side his bread’s buttered, and isn’t stupid enough to rock the boat. He’s no mug though.GOATever said:
sparta6 said:
Sitting 2nd in the WDC, Bottas underscores how flattering and dominant the Brackley package is.
Errrr, not quite. Bottas really isn’t the lap dog / suck puppy, some make him out to be. He knows on which side his bread’s buttered, and isn’t stupid enough to rock the boat. He’s no mug though.GOATever said:
Errrr, not quite. Bottas really isn’t the lap dog / suck puppy, some make him out to be. He knows on which side his bread’s buttered, and isn’t stupid enough to rock the boat. He’s no mug though.
I agree - but Bottas is not a Top 6 driver and yet he sits at P2 in the WDC.Mercedes could have Ricciardo alongside Hamilton, but that WOULD likely rock the boat
sparta6 said:
I agree - but Bottas is not a Top 6 driver and yet he sits at P2 in the WDC.
Mercedes could have Ricciardo alongside Hamilton, but that WOULD likely rock the boat
Seriously doubt that. I would expect Hamilton would win that battle just as he has won over every team mate he has ever had in his career.Mercedes could have Ricciardo alongside Hamilton, but that WOULD likely rock the boat
paulguitar said:
sparta6 said:
I agree - but Bottas is not a Top 6 driver and yet he sits at P2 in the WDC.
Mercedes could have Ricciardo alongside Hamilton, but that WOULD likely rock the boat
Seriously doubt that. I would expect Hamilton would win that battle just as he has won over every team mate he has ever had in his career.Mercedes could have Ricciardo alongside Hamilton, but that WOULD likely rock the boat
This.
I think that people forget how long is a season. The level of concentration necessary to drive at Hamilton's level all year around is very demanding I reckon.
I remember Button once mentioning how sometime he thought he had beaten Hamilton nicely in a race only for the second to destroy Button in the next race or qualifying to remind him that he was still better than him. Must be tough to drive along a guy like Hamilton all year around.
Rosberg did very well in 2016. Sure it helped when Hamilton retired his car but nonetheless, Rosberg had to dig very hard to keep the pressure on. So much that he had to retire the year after.
sparta6 said:
Hamilton has also done it in the most dominant and reliable car in F1 history.
Reliable? Yes, Dominant? No. The Ferrari has been at least equal to the Mercedes over the last 2-3 seasons. The Red Bull years were the most dominant in recent history. The fact that other drivers got so close during those years is down to the fact that RB backed only one driver and that driver has been shown to be well away from the best.Considering LH joined Mercedes at a time they were well off the pace, despite having the great Schumacher for 3 years, actually underlines my point. LH and NR between them provided better input than MS and NR resulting in some part of the car improvement. Also Mercedes have absolutely nailed the hybrid formulae and were better than the rest for 3 years or so.
You could also consider why Lauda and Wolff went after Hamilton? His record from his early karting days through to the current day stands out as better than anybody else. It was not until Button that he lost a season to a team-mate.
KevinCamaroSS said:
I prefer to look at facts and figures, rather than other drivers opinions for the simple reason that the drivers will always be biased in one direction, whatever direction that is.
E.g. JB saying MV is the fastest driver ever in F1. If that was the case he should be qualifying significantly ahead of AA, which he is not.
I believe that MV and CLC, along with a few others of the new generation, will take over at the top when LH decides to retire, but it will not be this year, or next year either.
Based on facts and figures LH is better than MS based on the fact that he has nearly equalled his records and has done so with the minimum of cheating.
In all likelihood he will equal or overtake the outright records next year. Also bear in mind LH has, to date, 60 fewer starts than MS.
Hamilton started his 246th F1 race in Japan recently, while the last of Schumacher's 91 F1 wins came in his 246th grand prix.E.g. JB saying MV is the fastest driver ever in F1. If that was the case he should be qualifying significantly ahead of AA, which he is not.
I believe that MV and CLC, along with a few others of the new generation, will take over at the top when LH decides to retire, but it will not be this year, or next year either.
Based on facts and figures LH is better than MS based on the fact that he has nearly equalled his records and has done so with the minimum of cheating.
In all likelihood he will equal or overtake the outright records next year. Also bear in mind LH has, to date, 60 fewer starts than MS.
On that basis, Schumacher is better. Especially considering Hamilton has had a more dominant car for a longer period.
E34-3.2 said:
A44RON said:
Interesting, the Alonso lost against Hamilton; they finished on equal points in the same car. While Alonso beat Hamilton from 2010-2013 (actually finished ahead of him on points, not just equal points) in what many F1 experts describe as inferior cars, particularly in 2013.
Interesting as you say but Alonso lost against Hamilton. I didn't make it up. This is what the drivers standing says. Hamilton finished ahead in 2008-2009 as well. You will say that it is unfair as Alonso was at Renault and the car wasn't very good which I would agree but let's not forget how shocking McLaren was as a team during 2010-11-12 which I believed made Hamilton quit the team.
One thing for sure is that both Alonso and Hamilton were quicker than Schumacher. They are both naturally more gifted were Schumacher was more of a machine ready to do anything to win even if it was illegal....
KevinCamaroSS said:
sparta6 said:
Hamilton has also done it in the most dominant and reliable car in F1 history.
Reliable? Yes, Dominant? No. The Ferrari has been at least equal to the Mercedes over the last 2-3 seasons. The Red Bull years were the most dominant in recent history. The fact that other drivers got so close during those years is down to the fact that RB backed only one driver and that driver has been shown to be well away from the best.Considering LH joined Mercedes at a time they were well off the pace, despite having the great Schumacher for 3 years, actually underlines my point. LH and NR between them provided better input than MS and NR resulting in some part of the car improvement. Also Mercedes have absolutely nailed the hybrid formulae and were better than the rest for 3 years or so.
You could also consider why Lauda and Wolff went after Hamilton? His record from his early karting days through to the current day stands out as better than anybody else. It was not until Button that he lost a season to a team-mate.
The Mercedes was a race-winner in 2012 and regularly on the podium. In 2013 it was better than the McLaren and Ferrari.
KevinCamaroSS said:
sparta6 said:
Hamilton has also done it in the most dominant and reliable car in F1 history.
Reliable? Yes, Dominant? No. The Ferrari has been at least equal to the Mercedes over the last 2-3 seasons. The Red Bull years were the most dominant in recent history. The fact that other drivers got so close during those years is down to the fact that RB backed only one driver and that driver has been shown to be well away from the best.Considering LH joined Mercedes at a time they were well off the pace, despite having the great Schumacher for 3 years, actually underlines my point. LH and NR between them provided better input than MS and NR resulting in some part of the car improvement. Also Mercedes have absolutely nailed the hybrid formulae and were better than the rest for 3 years or so.
You could also consider why Lauda and Wolff went after Hamilton? His record from his early karting days through to the current day stands out as better than anybody else. It was not until Button that he lost a season to a team-mate.
Well done, you should pen a novel; a fairytale maybe?
KevinCamaroSS said:
Reliable? Yes, Dominant? No. The Ferrari has been at least equal to the Mercedes over the last 2-3 seasons. The Red Bull years were the most dominant in recent history. The fact that other drivers got so close during those years is down to the fact that RB backed only one driver and that driver has been shown to be well away from the best.
Yeah that’s wrong I think that an interesting challenge would have been to put the TOP F1 drivers in the equivalent WRC cars, in a Rally of that time period and see where they finished on the Leader board for that Rally (say Corsica for the Tarmac).
Then compare finished positions, for that particular era.
Then compare finished positions, for that particular era.
I can't recall if I've "contributed" to this thread before but my take is both had the dominant car most of the time but the difference being is that MS had no effective opposition from his teammate as the team orders were to let him win. Hamilton hasn't had that luxury re teammates so I'd put him ahead of Schumacher in the final reckoning.
Smollet said:
I can't recall if I've "contributed" to this thread before but my take is both had the dominant car most of the time but the difference being is that MS had no effective opposition from his teammate as the team orders were to let him win. Hamilton hasn't had that luxury re teammates so I'd put him ahead of Schumacher in the final reckoning.
I would go with that as well. Hamilton also had an amazing career pre-F1and doesn't drive into other cars to win the title. That's kind of a big deal. paulguitar said:
Smollet said:
I can't recall if I've "contributed" to this thread before but my take is both had the dominant car most of the time but the difference being is that MS had no effective opposition from his teammate as the team orders were to let him win. Hamilton hasn't had that luxury re teammates so I'd put him ahead of Schumacher in the final reckoning.
I would go with that as well. Hamilton also had an amazing career pre-F1and doesn't drive into other cars to win the title. That's kind of a big deal. Smollet said:
I can't recall if I've "contributed" to this thread before but my take is both had the dominant car most of the time but the difference being is that MS had no effective opposition from his teammate as the team orders were to let him win. Hamilton hasn't had that luxury re teammates so I'd put him ahead of Schumacher in the final reckoning.
It depends what we consider as opposition.Opposition from a team mate can be influenced and managed. We have seen that across all teams and all eras, including hybrid Mercedes. Opposition from a dominant rival team and driver cannot.
The opposition that McLaren and Williams provided Schumacher with was almighty.
Battling with fierce rival team opposition, Schumacher gets my vote.
Bo_apex said:
Smollet said:
I can't recall if I've "contributed" to this thread before but my take is both had the dominant car most of the time but the difference being is that MS had no effective opposition from his teammate as the team orders were to let him win. Hamilton hasn't had that luxury re teammates so I'd put him ahead of Schumacher in the final reckoning.
It depends what we consider as opposition.Opposition from a team mate can be influenced and managed. We have seen that across all teams and all eras, including hybrid Mercedes. Opposition from a dominant rival team and driver cannot.
The opposition that McLaren and Williams provided Schumacher with was almighty.
Battling with fierce rival team opposition, Schumacher gets my vote.
Biggest minus point to me though is that he was a thoroughly dirty driver, and for that reason alone can't be considered the equal of Hamilton.
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