Discussion
I don't think it's racist to suggest that one society has a different culture to another. It's what culture means.
I've worked with a few Italians, and they've tended to be hard working and expect others around them to work hard too. But, if it weren't for their name and accent, there wouldn't be anything about how they worked that would differentiate them from any other nationality I've worked with. However, Italian work colleagues of mine are a very small sample size. It's a handful of people.
We frequently judge cars on this forum based on their country of origin. French cars are quirkly and flimsy and have unreliable electrics. Italian cars are emotional and pretty but never much good. German cars are premium items. Japanese cars are reliable and will run forever, but are a bit dull. Korean cars are cheap, but not cheap enough, and are undesirable. Just not as good as anyone else's.
These are all stereotypes, but they do have some basis in past history and culture. Is it incorrect to say that the business culture in Japan is generally different to the business culture in the USA, or in Germany, or Italy? Would it also be incorrect to say that some of these cultural differences can be traced back to the different laws in the respective countries?
We get better at something through training and experience. Maybe it isn't wrong to say that the amount and quality of experience and training available in Italy doesn't produce effective Formula 1 leaders as often as it does in the UK... or Germany.
Accepting eachother's differences isn't a bad thing. It's being intolerant of those differences, or viewing others as inferior because of where they were born or what race, gender, sexuality or whatever they are that causes problems. If you can accept that someone really does do something better than you, or knows more about something than you do, even if you don't like that person, you can learn from them. Or, if you are in competition with them, and understand their strengths and weaknesses, you can work out how to beat them. So if Ferrari looked at how Mercedes do so well in Formula 1, and then they learn from and adopt parts of that winning culture, that wouldn't make them any less Italian. It would just make them better at Formula 1.
Culture evolves just like everything else.
I've worked with a few Italians, and they've tended to be hard working and expect others around them to work hard too. But, if it weren't for their name and accent, there wouldn't be anything about how they worked that would differentiate them from any other nationality I've worked with. However, Italian work colleagues of mine are a very small sample size. It's a handful of people.
We frequently judge cars on this forum based on their country of origin. French cars are quirkly and flimsy and have unreliable electrics. Italian cars are emotional and pretty but never much good. German cars are premium items. Japanese cars are reliable and will run forever, but are a bit dull. Korean cars are cheap, but not cheap enough, and are undesirable. Just not as good as anyone else's.
These are all stereotypes, but they do have some basis in past history and culture. Is it incorrect to say that the business culture in Japan is generally different to the business culture in the USA, or in Germany, or Italy? Would it also be incorrect to say that some of these cultural differences can be traced back to the different laws in the respective countries?
We get better at something through training and experience. Maybe it isn't wrong to say that the amount and quality of experience and training available in Italy doesn't produce effective Formula 1 leaders as often as it does in the UK... or Germany.
Accepting eachother's differences isn't a bad thing. It's being intolerant of those differences, or viewing others as inferior because of where they were born or what race, gender, sexuality or whatever they are that causes problems. If you can accept that someone really does do something better than you, or knows more about something than you do, even if you don't like that person, you can learn from them. Or, if you are in competition with them, and understand their strengths and weaknesses, you can work out how to beat them. So if Ferrari looked at how Mercedes do so well in Formula 1, and then they learn from and adopt parts of that winning culture, that wouldn't make them any less Italian. It would just make them better at Formula 1.
Culture evolves just like everything else.
CoolHands said:
Who is he & where has he been
Car designer from the Red Team glory days. Did sine stuff at Benetton also. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rory_Byrne
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Rory Byrne is returning according to reports.
Ok... Had to check Wikipedia to catch up on what he's been doing since F1 - He'll be 77 years old by the start of next season!Although looking back he was at least loosely involved in the car design at least until the start of the hydrid era - so he's relatively up to date. Also just read that he was involved in the design of the Ferrari La Ferrari. Which definitely turned out very well.
vdn said:
Where in that article other than the headline does it say anything about this supposed espionage though?Espionage as in... the other teams shared notes and managed to figure out what Ferrari were up to and then the FIA put a stop to it?
TheDeuce said:
vdn said:
Where in that article other than the headline does it say anything about this supposed espionage though?Espionage as in... the other teams shared notes and managed to figure out what Ferrari were up to and then the FIA put a stop to it?
“Well, according to Italian publication Corriere dello Sport, the information was obtained illegally by a rival team with the Scuderia’s computer system being breached.”
vdn said:
It touches on it with this sentence:
“Well, according to Italian publication Corriere dello Sport, the information was obtained illegally by a rival team with the Scuderia’s computer system being breached.”
Must have missed that bit - fair enough.“Well, according to Italian publication Corriere dello Sport, the information was obtained illegally by a rival team with the Scuderia’s computer system being breached.”
So... That article infers Ferrari aren't happy about the underhand methods used to discover they were cheating
Do we believe their rivals, essentially MB and RB, are going to get involved in hacking?? Seems entirely plausible that once they were convinced Ferrari had extra power, it was only going to take them so long to figure out how they might be doing it. There are only so many ways the cheat could be achieved and I'm sure that both MB & RB have engineers smart enough to have the same cunning thoughts as Ferrari regarding duping the flow sensor. It's just Ferrari actually did it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53564603
Ferrari chairman John Elkann says they won't be competitive until the new rules in 2022, and he's supporting Binotto.
Ferrari chairman John Elkann says they won't be competitive until the new rules in 2022, and he's supporting Binotto.
ajprice said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53564603
Ferrari chairman John Elkann says they won't be competitive until the new rules in 2022, and he's supporting Binotto.
Expect him to be replaced by Spa then...Ferrari chairman John Elkann says they won't be competitive until the new rules in 2022, and he's supporting Binotto.
ajprice said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/53564603
Ferrari chairman John Elkann says they won't be competitive until the new rules in 2022, and he's supporting Binotto.
I think it's been obvious since the start of this season that they're stuck pretty much with what they've got until 2022.Ferrari chairman John Elkann says they won't be competitive until the new rules in 2022, and he's supporting Binotto.
Interesting the board are backing Binotto (if they actually follow thought with that)... Makes me think that either the 'cheat' and their reliance on it was baked in ahead of his time, which would mean the cheat has been present for a long while. Or it would mean that the choice to use the cheat during his time was a choice made by those above him. Either way, so long as he keeps his job I guess its something of an assurance it wasn't his doing/decision to head down the cheat route.
IMHO, VERY revealing article and video, which identifies why, in Michael Schumacher opinion, he became as successful as he did…
I’ve posted it on the Ferrari thread, because Michael talks about his first win at Ferrari in 2000.
I thought I would share it on Pistonheads, because it reveals something I certainly wasn’t aware of, in Michael Schumacher’s character… …maybe some of you weren’t either…
Michael Schumacher confesses 'not feeling good enough' in heartbreaking unearthed clip
MICHAEL SCHUMACHER confessed he was “not feeling good enough” just two months before his tragic life-changing skiing accident in 2013, heartbreaking unearthed footage reveals.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1226660/micha...
I’ve posted it on the Ferrari thread, because Michael talks about his first win at Ferrari in 2000.
I thought I would share it on Pistonheads, because it reveals something I certainly wasn’t aware of, in Michael Schumacher’s character… …maybe some of you weren’t either…
Michael Schumacher confesses 'not feeling good enough' in heartbreaking unearthed clip
MICHAEL SCHUMACHER confessed he was “not feeling good enough” just two months before his tragic life-changing skiing accident in 2013, heartbreaking unearthed footage reveals.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1226660/micha...
What's the Italian word for irony?
“That’s why I think at the moment it’s important simply to move forward and understand. Clarity, transparency for the fairness of the competition and for the Formula 1 for the future is important.”
https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/14/ferrari-wants-...
“That’s why I think at the moment it’s important simply to move forward and understand. Clarity, transparency for the fairness of the competition and for the Formula 1 for the future is important.”
https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/14/ferrari-wants-...
mw88 said:
What's the Italian word for irony?
“That’s why I think at the moment it’s important simply to move forward and understand. Clarity, transparency for the fairness of the competition and for the Formula 1 for the future is important.”
https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/14/ferrari-wants-...
Yep! “That’s why I think at the moment it’s important simply to move forward and understand. Clarity, transparency for the fairness of the competition and for the Formula 1 for the future is important.”
https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/14/ferrari-wants-...
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