Official 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
Wills2 said:
I think goes without saying it's 6 WDC vs. Zero, but he has it in him, I'd like to see them at the same team it would be riot for the race fan.
Unfortunately, that will never happen 
It would be amazing to see.I just hope the Red Bull is fast enough in 2020 to give Verstappen a car that can go for the title.
CLC did a similar chop/step across on Lando on Lap one, Lando got out of the way of the quicker car, Charles did not...
I love to see wheel to wheel racing (Mansell Senna) https://youtu.be/oa5gP-xscpY , but this current aggression with some of the members of the grid I don’t like, it won’t be long until we see a very serious accident at 300kph.
Safety car nonsense has to stop too, double waived yellows to a delta is what’s required, to bring a s/c out it should be a red flag condition in old money.
I love to see wheel to wheel racing (Mansell Senna) https://youtu.be/oa5gP-xscpY , but this current aggression with some of the members of the grid I don’t like, it won’t be long until we see a very serious accident at 300kph.
Safety car nonsense has to stop too, double waived yellows to a delta is what’s required, to bring a s/c out it should be a red flag condition in old money.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
The Surveyor said:
Flooble said:
Deesee said:
That's an excellent composite, thank you. Really shows how far Vettel moved over. 
Vettel had DRS and was going to get past CLC regardless, yet their combined stupidity resulted in an avoidable accident and left Ferrari with 2 DNF's.
Vettel had DRS and could have just stuck to his line and passed LeClerc by the time they had reached the corner. But as seen before Vettel likes to move across before being past which results in accidents.
100% Vettels fault as it has been so many other times in the past.
VET learned a lesson there. CLC won't be intimidated and was prepared to come together to prove it.
Racing incident which was avoidable IMO. But, for it to be avoided, someone had to yield.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
I really can't see what LeClerc was supposed to do?
Vettel had DRS and could have just stuck to his line and passed LeClerc by the time they had reached the corner. But as seen before Vettel likes to move across before being past which results in accidents.
100% Vettels fault as it has been so many other times in the past.
You can't see what Chuck was supposed to do? Really?Vettel had DRS and could have just stuck to his line and passed LeClerc by the time they had reached the corner. But as seen before Vettel likes to move across before being past which results in accidents.
100% Vettels fault as it has been so many other times in the past.
By your own observation, we know Vettel likes to move over once past (or not quite
) and 'show a bit of wheel' to discourage a follow up lunge at the next corner.If you know this, I'm willing to gamble LeClerc has a pretty good idea of it too, so given that he had clearly lost the position (Vettel DRS, overspeed, already behind, very similar car) all he needed to do was avoid the car in front that was coming across, by minutely adjusting his line to the left for the additional tenth of a second of so it would have taken for Vettel to be completely clear.
Yes it was an unnecessary bit of posturing from Vettel, but in stubbornly trying to stand up for himself, LeClerc allowed the cars to come into contact, he had a much better view of where the cars were in relation to each other, and he had vast amounts of track to his left in which to move in to briefly in order to avoid the collision.
And as also mentioned above, the overtake LeClerc pulled around Norris near the start of the race and his following cut across the track caused Norris to swerve violently to the left to avoid a collision (or at least clearly a situation Norris perceived as a chance of a collision). If Norris hadn't moved and they'd collided, would that have been entirely LeClerc's fault?
Either way, I thought it was a great race, shame for Albon, great for Gasly, I was truly over the moon for him and the team
Personally, the mistakes Vettel has been making during the past couple of seasons remind me of Michael Schumacher's slightly flawed comeback. I remember a few races where Schumacher made silly mistakes that seemed to defy the experience his 7 World Championships would suggest he had (e.g. running into the back of other cars - twice I think it happened in 2012).
Although Schumacher had the excuse that he was 43 years old, and driving a car that wasn't so competitive (something he wasn't really used to). Vettel is some 10 years his junior and has a car that on occasion is capable of winning races, so perhaps doesn't have any excuses.
Perhaps he's just rattled by having a competitive, eager and young teammate - just as he was when he was with Ricciardo at Red Bull?
Although Schumacher had the excuse that he was 43 years old, and driving a car that wasn't so competitive (something he wasn't really used to). Vettel is some 10 years his junior and has a car that on occasion is capable of winning races, so perhaps doesn't have any excuses.
Perhaps he's just rattled by having a competitive, eager and young teammate - just as he was when he was with Ricciardo at Red Bull?
Deesee said:
CLC did a similar chop/step across on Lando on Lap one, Lando got out of the way of the quicker car, Charles did not...
I love to see wheel to wheel racing (Mansell Senna) https://youtu.be/oa5gP-xscpY , but this current aggression with some of the members of the grid I don’t like, it won’t be long until we see a very serious accident at 300kph.
Safety car nonsense has to stop too, double waived yellows to a delta is what’s required, to bring a s/c out it should be a red flag condition in old money.
The safety car being taken out due to Bottas retirement was crazy.I love to see wheel to wheel racing (Mansell Senna) https://youtu.be/oa5gP-xscpY , but this current aggression with some of the members of the grid I don’t like, it won’t be long until we see a very serious accident at 300kph.
Safety car nonsense has to stop too, double waived yellows to a delta is what’s required, to bring a s/c out it should be a red flag condition in old money.
The car was not in a dangerous position and could have been left for the remaining laps.
But it did spice things up in the end. I really thought the race was going to finish under the safety car which would have been a nightmare for Lewis and Mercedes.
But in the end, it went wrong anyway.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Deesee said:
CLC did a similar chop/step across on Lando on Lap one, Lando got out of the way of the quicker car, Charles did not...
I love to see wheel to wheel racing (Mansell Senna) https://youtu.be/oa5gP-xscpY , but this current aggression with some of the members of the grid I don’t like, it won’t be long until we see a very serious accident at 300kph.
Safety car nonsense has to stop too, double waived yellows to a delta is what’s required, to bring a s/c out it should be a red flag condition in old money.
The safety car being taken out due to Bottas retirement was crazy.I love to see wheel to wheel racing (Mansell Senna) https://youtu.be/oa5gP-xscpY , but this current aggression with some of the members of the grid I don’t like, it won’t be long until we see a very serious accident at 300kph.
Safety car nonsense has to stop too, double waived yellows to a delta is what’s required, to bring a s/c out it should be a red flag condition in old money.
The car was not in a dangerous position and could have been left for the remaining laps.
But it did spice things up in the end. I really thought the race was going to finish under the safety car which would have been a nightmare for Lewis and Mercedes.
But in the end, it went wrong anyway.
Lewis would have finished a highly probable P2 with no s/c.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
The safety car being taken out due to Bottas retirement was crazy.
I was confused about why the safety car was out for so many laps. The commentary suggested that letting the lapped cars unlap themselves was optional - but still happened, even though the obstruction was gone after about half a lap of safety car. It's almost like they left it out that long in order to reset the race and spice things up 
stevesuk said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
The safety car being taken out due to Bottas retirement was crazy.
I was confused about why the safety car was out for so many laps. The commentary suggested that letting the lapped cars unlap themselves was optional - but still happened, even though the obstruction was gone after about half a lap of safety car. It's almost like they left it out that long in order to reset the race and spice things up “The unlapping procedure under the safety car seems unnecessarily complex. They could sort them into the two groups if the safety car simply led the cars on the lead lap through the pits and left the lapped cars on the circuit. This would save at least one lap under the safety car and give one more lap of racing.”
I think we need to move on from the first safety car discussion, there was a recovery vehicle on track (I think it has also been mentioned that this vehicle needed to cross the track to get to Bottas' car) and the FIA will not have this under 'race' conditions post Bianchi. Bottas' car obviously could not be moved manually for whatever reason, maybe stuck in gear since the engine performed a sudden shutdown to save itself, therefore meaning it must be removed with heavy machinery.
SturdyHSV said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
I really can't see what LeClerc was supposed to do?
Vettel had DRS and could have just stuck to his line and passed LeClerc by the time they had reached the corner. But as seen before Vettel likes to move across before being past which results in accidents.
100% Vettels fault as it has been so many other times in the past.
You can't see what Chuck was supposed to do? Really?Vettel had DRS and could have just stuck to his line and passed LeClerc by the time they had reached the corner. But as seen before Vettel likes to move across before being past which results in accidents.
100% Vettels fault as it has been so many other times in the past.
By your own observation, we know Vettel likes to move over once past (or not quite
) and 'show a bit of wheel' to discourage a follow up lunge at the next corner.If you know this, I'm willing to gamble LeClerc has a pretty good idea of it too, so given that he had clearly lost the position (Vettel DRS, overspeed, already behind, very similar car) all he needed to do was avoid the car in front that was coming across, by minutely adjusting his line to the left for the additional tenth of a second of so it would have taken for Vettel to be completely clear.
Yes it was an unnecessary bit of posturing from Vettel, but in stubbornly trying to stand up for himself, LeClerc allowed the cars to come into contact, he had a much better view of where the cars were in relation to each other, and he had vast amounts of track to his left in which to move in to briefly in order to avoid the collision.
And as also mentioned above, the overtake LeClerc pulled around Norris near the start of the race and his following cut across the track caused Norris to swerve violently to the left to avoid a collision (or at least clearly a situation Norris perceived as a chance of a collision). If Norris hadn't moved and they'd collided, would that have been entirely LeClerc's fault?
Either way, I thought it was a great race, shame for Albon, great for Gasly, I was truly over the moon for him and the team
The other thing is, if CLC had moved over, Vettal will try it again next time. As it is now he wont try it again as he knows itll be an accident.
Zoobeef said:
Vettel also had vast amounts of track to his right. The racing line was on the right, if he wants to come across to defend he needs to make sure hes ahead, it's not for CLC to lose the place and then compromise his own line into the next corner to make it even easier for Vettel.
The other thing is, if CLC had moved over, Vettal will try it again next time. As it is now he wont try it again as he knows itll be an accident.
I think CLC has put himself under a lot of pressure with this robust defense. He looked extremely nervous in the interviews after the race. I think he'll be under quite strict instructions to work out when and how to yield once he's lost a place.The other thing is, if CLC had moved over, Vettal will try it again next time. As it is now he wont try it again as he knows itll be an accident.
That said, the compound photo earlier does show that Seb had more space to his right than I first thought. I still think because he is in the main part ahead, and because his move to the left was very gradual, I still put a bigger share of the blame with CLC.
Andy S15 said:
I think we need to move on from the first safety car discussion, there was a recovery vehicle on track (I think it has also been mentioned that this vehicle needed to cross the track to get to Bottas' car) and the FIA will not have this under 'race' conditions post Bianchi. Bottas' car obviously could not be moved manually for whatever reason, maybe stuck in gear since the engine performed a sudden shutdown to save itself, therefore meaning it must be removed with heavy machinery.
I'm pretty sure the recovery vehicle came from the spot where Bottas parked it. For some reason the marshals didn't fancy rolling it out the way. Double waved yellows and all would have been fine.London424 said:
Andy S15 said:
I think we need to move on from the first safety car discussion, there was a recovery vehicle on track (I think it has also been mentioned that this vehicle needed to cross the track to get to Bottas' car) and the FIA will not have this under 'race' conditions post Bianchi. Bottas' car obviously could not be moved manually for whatever reason, maybe stuck in gear since the engine performed a sudden shutdown to save itself, therefore meaning it must be removed with heavy machinery.
I'm pretty sure the recovery vehicle came from the spot where Bottas parked it. For some reason the marshals didn't fancy rolling it out the way. Double waved yellows and all would have been fine.Since the Bianci incident, the default position whenever a recovery vehicle has to be used in this way, it automatically triggers a full safety car regardless of anything else.
Seems fair enough to me.
Zoobeef said:
SturdyHSV said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
I really can't see what LeClerc was supposed to do?
Vettel had DRS and could have just stuck to his line and passed LeClerc by the time they had reached the corner. But as seen before Vettel likes to move across before being past which results in accidents.
100% Vettels fault as it has been so many other times in the past.
You can't see what Chuck was supposed to do? Really?Vettel had DRS and could have just stuck to his line and passed LeClerc by the time they had reached the corner. But as seen before Vettel likes to move across before being past which results in accidents.
100% Vettels fault as it has been so many other times in the past.
By your own observation, we know Vettel likes to move over once past (or not quite
) and 'show a bit of wheel' to discourage a follow up lunge at the next corner.If you know this, I'm willing to gamble LeClerc has a pretty good idea of it too, so given that he had clearly lost the position (Vettel DRS, overspeed, already behind, very similar car) all he needed to do was avoid the car in front that was coming across, by minutely adjusting his line to the left for the additional tenth of a second of so it would have taken for Vettel to be completely clear.
Yes it was an unnecessary bit of posturing from Vettel, but in stubbornly trying to stand up for himself, LeClerc allowed the cars to come into contact, he had a much better view of where the cars were in relation to each other, and he had vast amounts of track to his left in which to move in to briefly in order to avoid the collision.
And as also mentioned above, the overtake LeClerc pulled around Norris near the start of the race and his following cut across the track caused Norris to swerve violently to the left to avoid a collision (or at least clearly a situation Norris perceived as a chance of a collision). If Norris hadn't moved and they'd collided, would that have been entirely LeClerc's fault?
Either way, I thought it was a great race, shame for Albon, great for Gasly, I was truly over the moon for him and the team
The other thing is, if CLC had moved over, Vettal will try it again next time. As it is now he wont try it again as he knows itll be an accident.
They're team mates FFS. As I said in an earlier post, BOTH of them should be giving each other more space.
oyster said:
Why are you making an assumption that Vettel is the one who should yield next time to avoid an accident and not Charles?
They're team mates FFS. As I said in an earlier post, BOTH of them should be giving each other more space.
Maybe if Seb hadn't been such an asshat in Russia, then Charles might have been more inclined to move over a bit?They're team mates FFS. As I said in an earlier post, BOTH of them should be giving each other more space.
as the saying goes "You play stupid games ...you reap stupid prizes"
oyster said:
Why are you making an assumption that Vettel is the one who should yield next time to avoid an accident and not Charles?
They're team mates FFS. As I said in an earlier post, BOTH of them should be giving each other more space.
Because CLC wasnt the one moving across. Are you saying that rather than vettal not move across and hit CLC, it should be CLC that moves and allows Vettal to drive wherever he wants (note that his move was away from the racing line). That's not how it works. The rule is that car infront is entitled to take the racing line, not the car in front can drive wherever he wants so you best get out the way..They're team mates FFS. As I said in an earlier post, BOTH of them should be giving each other more space.
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