Official 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Official 2019 Brazilian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Author
Discussion

Mr_Thyroid

1,776 posts

175 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
Heaven forbid he actually races Vettel. Of course he’s going to give Vettel as little room as possible, but the important bit is HE GAVE ROOM.....

...maybe if Vettel used his mirrors as accurately as Charles, there wouldn’t have been a collision.
They were on a straight. What was he trying to do? All he was doing was playing who's got the biggest balls, and when you do that, sooner or later one or both are going to have their trousers round their ankles. I'm not trying to absolve Vettel but to say Leclerc is entirely innocent is silly. Like Vettel, he too will be ruing what he could've done differently because deep down he will know that he would've given any other driver more room (except maybe Verstappen).

jsf

14,590 posts

184 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Official statement from the FIA stated that the car had beached on a bump requiring the recovery vehicle to be used and this had to manoeuvre from behind the guardrail, partially into the circuit.

Since the Bianci incident, the default position whenever a recovery vehicle has to be used in this way, it automatically triggers a full safety car regardless of anything else.

Seems fair enough to me.
The VSC was introduced to cover this scenario.

C70R

5,412 posts

52 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
stinkyspanner said:
C70R said:
Because finishing first, first requires finishing. Charlie learned that the hard way, and it was in his control.

Seeing Seb being a knob and trying to squeeze him should have resulted in him getting the heck out of the way.

He (based on the photo of the wheel above) clearly didn't, and he suffered because of a combination of both of their egos.

A smart driver, who isn't being consumed by the red mist, takes it on the chin, drops back and goes on the all-out attack.
And let Vettel know he can be intimidated in future. No chance
Then you risk not finishing the race, simply. Vettel has proven before that he's stupid enough to crash into a team-mate to make a point.

He's a faster driver than Vettel, and should let his driving do the talking.

C70R

5,412 posts

52 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
angrymoby said:
C70R said:
Because finishing first, first requires finishing. Charlie learned that the hard way, and it was in his control.

Seeing Seb being a knob and trying to squeeze him should have resulted in him getting the heck out of the way.

He (based on the photo of the wheel above) clearly didn't, and he suffered because of a combination of both of their egos.

A smart driver, who isn't being consumed by the red mist, takes it on the chin, drops back and goes on the all-out attack.
think you've forgot who is going to finish higher in the WDC standings ...which is all Charles will care about (now that Ferrari is confirmed 2nd in WCC)

Seb's number 1 status has effectively gone, all he can hope for next season now, is parity ...& with the amount of mistakes he's made im not sure he'll even get that
I haven't "forgot" anything. Odd thing to say.

Leclerc has been clearly the better driver this season, which is probably the root cause of Vettel's petulant ego exercise.

A more mature driver backs off there, and comes back to overtake Vettel at the end of the pit straight on the next lap.

Charles had the option not to stoop as low as Vettel, and failed (judging by the evidence). As a result, he didn't finish the race, let alone finish it ahead of Vettel.

abzmike

1,685 posts

54 months

Monday 18th November
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If Vettel has waited a yard before moving into CLS’s line the last 20 pages wouldn’t have happened.

Jasandjules

63,387 posts

177 months

Monday 18th November
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Deesee said:
“The unlapping procedure under the safety car seems unnecessarily complex. They could sort them into the two groups if the safety car simply led the cars on the lead lap through the pits and left the lapped cars on the circuit. This would save at least one lap under the safety car and give one more lap of racing.”
Would have to ban pitting under SC then.....

A44RON

171 posts

44 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
once again, an old-school track delivers a thrilling race this year.

Interlagos should be made a permanent fixture on the calendar. If Liberty take it off they are morons.

SturdyHSV

6,720 posts

115 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Vettel had enough speed over LeClerc at that corner exit that Charles needn't have backed off to avoid the accident, all he needed to do was move slightly left instead of stubbornly holding his line into an accident.

I appreciate perhaps that isn't in accordance with some sort of moral absolute of what is "right", but if he had decided to avoid the slowly drifting car of Vettel he would have almost definitely overtaken him shortly after, and then why the fk does it matter that he was mature enough to take gentle avoiding action and then beat Vettel as opposed to making some sort of pencil dick macho power play of look how stubborn I am I won't yield and will just let us hit each other because I'm holding my line?

Surely he'd be in a far better place from the aspect of "I will react to your dodgy moves and still beat you anyway"?

Yes Seb could have held his line and Charles could have wandered around, or vice versa, largely as long as they aren't making multiple moves and swerving around under braking, they're free to do what they want.

Vettel was in no way running Charles off the track, he was comfortably coming past and moving across the track to defend his position and Charles refused to avoid the accident as an deliberate retaliation.

I'm certainly not saying it's Charles' fault, but it clearly isn't just Vettel's fault because it could have very easily been avoided (as Norris did with LeClerc) if Charles had decided to.

Should make for a fun 2020 either way hehe

stinkyspanner

217 posts

25 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
C70R said:
stinkyspanner said:
C70R said:
Because finishing first, first requires finishing. Charlie learned that the hard way, and it was in his control.

Seeing Seb being a knob and trying to squeeze him should have resulted in him getting the heck out of the way.

He (based on the photo of the wheel above) clearly didn't, and he suffered because of a combination of both of their egos.

A smart driver, who isn't being consumed by the red mist, takes it on the chin, drops back and goes on the all-out attack.
And let Vettel know he can be intimidated in future. No chance
Then you risk not finishing the race, simply. Vettel has proven before that he's stupid enough to crash into a team-mate to make a point.

He's a faster driver than Vettel, and should let his driving do the talking.
Yeah maybe, but this season is goosed anyway for both Ferrari drivers. Could it be that CLC was already predisposed not to give in to any of Vettels nonsense with an eye on the bigger picture. Was he prepared to sacrifice this race but make Vettel think twice about giving him the squeeze in future, in the same way that most drivers give Verstappen a bit of extra room.
Or it could be that CLC was just a bit surprised by being squeezed and didn't have time to react?

Zoobeef

4,138 posts

106 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Could have been avoided if CLC didn't bother racing too.
He is never going to drive himself onto the wrong side of the track and give vettal more and more room. Just isnt going to happen.
At no point did he expect his team mate to crash into him and need to give him any more space (given he had already given him nearly double the room he HAD to).
Amazing the amount of victim blaming going on here. Guessing you are the guys that say "well she was wearing a short skirt, maybe it would have been smarter to wear trousers and a jumper, may have been avoided then.."

LaurasOtherHalf

15,910 posts

144 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
ghost83 said:
So I’m sorry but I blame leclerc

Watching the footage this post is very misleading;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYB4fDz5Vc

LEC's steering wheel is simply wandering from side to side on the bumps-he doesn't steer to the right.

37chevy

3,280 posts

104 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Mr_Thyroid said:
37chevy said:
Heaven forbid he actually races Vettel. Of course he’s going to give Vettel as little room as possible, but the important bit is HE GAVE ROOM.....

...maybe if Vettel used his mirrors as accurately as Charles, there wouldn’t have been a collision.
They were on a straight. What was he trying to do?
Driving in a straight line....on a straight,
In stark contrast to his teammate

angrymoby

1,027 posts

126 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
C70R said:
I haven't "forgot" anything. Odd thing to say.

Leclerc has been clearly the better driver this season, which is probably the root cause of Vettel's petulant ego exercise.

A more mature driver backs off there, and comes back to overtake Vettel at the end of the pit straight on the next lap.

Charles had the option not to stoop as low as Vettel, and failed (judging by the evidence). As a result, he didn't finish the race, let alone finish it ahead of Vettel.
odd & slightly amusing that you think Vettel would let Charles past again, as when you're in the same car- you're lucky if you get one bite at an overtake, let alone two (& let alone against Seb)

& imo it's nothing to do with maturity- as how old is Vettel, Hamilton, Rosberg, (was) Webber? etc etc etc

Graveworm

2,793 posts

19 months

37chevy

3,280 posts

104 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Graveworm said:
Doesn’t surprise me, hamilton knew he cocked up, manned up and admitted responsibility. Fair play for not contesting it.

People can say it’s easy when he’s got nothing to lose now the championship is all over but we’ve seen another multiple world champion run into another driver in the same race not accepting responsibility for his own mistakes

Flooble

1,945 posts

48 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
37chevy said:
Doesn’t surprise me, hamilton knew he cocked up, manned up and admitted responsibility. Fair play for not contesting it.

People can say it’s easy when he’s got nothing to lose now the championship is all over but we’ve seen another multiple world champion run into another driver in the same race not accepting responsibility for his own mistakes
Indeed, although Vettel does (did) have a great deal more to lose than Hamilton. Number 1 status in the team for a start.

StevieBee

8,177 posts

203 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
jsf said:
StevieBee said:
Official statement from the FIA stated that the car had beached on a bump requiring the recovery vehicle to be used and this had to manoeuvre from behind the guardrail, partially into the circuit.

Since the Bianci incident, the default position whenever a recovery vehicle has to be used in this way, it automatically triggers a full safety car regardless of anything else.

Seems fair enough to me.
The VSC was introduced to cover this scenario.
Initially. Full Safety deployed when recovery vehicle was needed.

Full info here: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/147234/fia-expla...


Mr_Thyroid

1,776 posts

175 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
ghost83 said:
So I’m sorry but I blame leclerc

Watching the footage this post is very misleading;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYB4fDz5Vc

LEC's steering wheel is simply wandering from side to side on the bumps-he doesn't steer to the right.
It's not the bumps. To stop moving left you need to steer right. He is making sure he gives Vettel minimum possible room.

LaurasOtherHalf

15,910 posts

144 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Mr_Thyroid said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
ghost83 said:
So I’m sorry but I blame leclerc

Watching the footage this post is very misleading;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYB4fDz5Vc

LEC's steering wheel is simply wandering from side to side on the bumps-he doesn't steer to the right.
It's not the bumps. To stop moving left you need to steer right. He is making sure he gives Vettel minimum possible room.
It's almost like you haven't watched the video?

Wh00sher

1,260 posts

166 months

Monday 18th November
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Here’s a frame by frame front on.



100% avoidable, what a pair of muppets

That's the best bit of media I've yet seen showing the incident. !

Clearly shows leclerc moving towards the centre of the track, giving Vettel plenty of room yet Vettel keeps coming and eventually hits him.

The photo of leclerc with right lock is just to correct for the bumps, it's a single frame completely out of context.