What would the 0-60 etc be of an F1 car?

[TheDeuce]

A44RON said:

I'm with you on that if i have enough funds one day I will purchase an E60 M5/M6 V10 and fit a DCT gearbox. Hubba.

Oh that's an even better choice of engine in many ways! But please, please, please... Google 'M5 V10 vanos fix' before you blow your load on one

You should definitely drive both first though. In the end, I concluded the M3 was easier to have fun with and exploit down a typical b-road. It's just as fast in the real world and far more pointy than it's big brother. The M3 is the sort of car that's fast not because it's fast, but because it gently cups you and lets you know it's perfectly OK to push a little harder

[tobinen]

I was very keen on drag racing in the 1990s. I used to go to Santa Pod a lot and even went to the Texas Motorplex. I worked with some guys who ran a Super Gas car (idea was to run at 9.90 seconds without going more quickly)

Anyway, one of the chaps was a real die-hard fan and very knowledgeable. We were musing about how quickly could a then-F1 car run the standing quarter.

We estimated at high 7s - 8 seconds traction-limited (correctly or otherwise)

At the time and as a comparison, a US Pro-Stock car (8 litres/500 c.i. naturally aspirated and I think high octane pump fuel) would be running mid to low 7s

The friend who was the big fan wasn't having it that an F1 car would be that quick.

Any thoughts? Once an F1 car has traction they're bloody quick - but how fast in a quarter mile?

[vaud]

tobinen said:

I was very keen on drag racing in the 1990s. I used to go to Santa Pod a lot and even went to the Texas Motorplex. I worked with some guys who ran a Super Gas car (idea was to run at 9.90 seconds without going more quickly)

Anyway, one of the chaps was a real die-hard fan and very knowledgeable. We were musing about how quickly could a then-F1 car run the standing quarter.

We estimated at high 7s - 8 seconds traction-limited (correctly or otherwise)

At the time and as a comparison, a US Pro-Stock car (8 litres/500 c.i. naturally aspirated and I think high octane pump fuel) would be running mid to low 7s

The friend who was the big fan wasn't having it that an F1 car would be that quick.

Any thoughts? Once an F1 car has traction they're bloody quick - but how fast in a quarter mile?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/51275/fifth_gear_boa...

[TheDeuce]

tobinen said:

I was very keen on drag racing in the 1990s. I used to go to Santa Pod a lot and even went to the Texas Motorplex. I worked with some guys who ran a Super Gas car (idea was to run at 9.90 seconds without going more quickly)

Anyway, one of the chaps was a real die-hard fan and very knowledgeable. We were musing about how quickly could a then-F1 car run the standing quarter.

We estimated at high 7s - 8 seconds traction-limited (correctly or otherwise)

At the time and as a comparison, a US Pro-Stock car (8 litres/500 c.i. naturally aspirated and I think high octane pump fuel) would be running mid to low 7s

The friend who was the big fan wasn't having it that an F1 car would be that quick.

Any thoughts? Once an F1 car has traction they're bloody quick - but how fast in a quarter mile?

I'm sure if the F1 car was aero prepared for the drag and on suitable tyres it could be able to get to 7 seconds-ish.

Power and weight is all where it needs to be, the rest is really just down to removing drag via setup and finding rubber that sticks.

Were the Pro stock cars running completely standard when they ran 7's?

[RobM77]

TheDeuce said:

tobinen said:

I was very keen on drag racing in the 1990s. I used to go to Santa Pod a lot and even went to the Texas Motorplex. I worked with some guys who ran a Super Gas car (idea was to run at 9.90 seconds without going more quickly)

Anyway, one of the chaps was a real die-hard fan and very knowledgeable. We were musing about how quickly could a then-F1 car run the standing quarter.

We estimated at high 7s - 8 seconds traction-limited (correctly or otherwise)

At the time and as a comparison, a US Pro-Stock car (8 litres/500 c.i. naturally aspirated and I think high octane pump fuel) would be running mid to low 7s

The friend who was the big fan wasn't having it that an F1 car would be that quick.

Any thoughts? Once an F1 car has traction they're bloody quick - but how fast in a quarter mile?

I'm sure if the F1 car was aero prepared for the drag and on suitable tyres it could be able to get to 7 seconds-ish.

Power and weight is all where it needs to be, the rest is really just down to removing drag via setup and finding rubber that sticks.

Were the Pro stock cars running completely standard when they ran 7's?

Two things spring to mention regarding the F1 car:

1) Setup. I remember Evo once had a Caterham R500 on a trackday test and the car came straight from Autocar's annual 0-100-0 challenge - the car had been set up for the Autocar event and as such it was a dog on track for Evo. I suspect they softened the rear end for greater traction. I don't know how much the setup is changed for these F1 car demos and runs?

2) Tyres. The grip from a soft set of slicks at optimum temperature is astonishing, so do we know what state the tyres were in? Apparently my old Formula Renault could do 0-100 in just under 5 seconds with only just over 400bhp/tonne - compare than with a Caterham 420R for example, or other cars of that power to weight, and you can see the immense traction that a set of wide slicks produces at optimum temperature. On cold aged tyres though my car would light up both rear tyres with about 1-2cm of throttle (that's not an exaggeration; I nearly spun in the pitlane once). This difference is so stark that the F1 car would need to be in top form to perform - not an issue doing what it's designed to do of course...

[130R]

The 919 Evo could do 0 to 124 mph in 4 seconds and 0 to 186 mph in under 8 seconds according to Neel Jani. That has similar (maybe very slightly quicker) acceleration to the latest F1 cars.

[RobM77]

130R said:

The 919 Evo could do 0 to 124 mph in 4 seconds and 0 to 186 mph in under 8 seconds according to Neel Jani. That has similar (maybe very slightly quicker) acceleration to the latest F1 cars.

Amazing Couple that with the mega braking and cornering and it must have been eye opening to drive, even for experienced racers.

[Deesee]

It should be remembered that the F1 cars are built to the current Formula.

If you could increase the fuel flow, rev to 18k, do away with the 4MJ per lap restriction, really play about and de-restrict the MGUK and lose 100kg (or so, which they could), and another 70kg reduction in halo & other safety they would be 1980's qualifying monsters +++..

[kiseca]

Deesee said:

It should be remembered that the F1 cars are built to the current Formula.

If you could increase the fuel flow, rev to 18k, do away with the 4MJ per lap restriction, really play about and de-restrict the MGUK and lose 100kg (or so, which they could), and another 70kg reduction in halo & other safety they would be 1980's qualifying monsters +++..

I think even now they'd destroy the '80s cars at least in race trim.

More advanced tyres
Better torque spread and comparatively little turbo lag
3 more gears keep engine in the sweetspot longer
Faster gearchanges because semi-auto box
More powerful - I know in qualifying the BMW was reputedly hitting 1500bhp, and then grenading after 3 laps, but I believe in racing trim the power output was 700-800bhp in the '80s turbo era, and modern engines are, according to Renault, now knocking on the door of 1000bhp.
EDIT: Also, possibly now slipperier, definitely so if they're allowed to sprint with DRS open.

[Deesee]

kiseca said:

Deesee said:

It should be remembered that the F1 cars are built to the current Formula.

If you could increase the fuel flow, rev to 18k, do away with the 4MJ per lap restriction, really play about and de-restrict the MGUK and lose 100kg (or so, which they could), and another 70kg reduction in halo & other safety they would be 1980's qualifying monsters +++..

I think even now they'd destroy the '80s cars at least in race trim.

More advanced tyres
Better torque spread and comparatively little turbo lag
3 more gears keep engine in the sweetspot longer
Faster gearchanges because semi-auto box
More powerful - I know in qualifying the BMW was reputedly hitting 1500bhp, and then grenading after 3 laps, but I believe in racing trim the power output was 700-800bhp in the '80s turbo era, and modern engines are, according to Renault, now knocking on the door of 1000bhp.
EDIT: Also, possibly now slipperier, definitely so if they're allowed to sprint with DRS open.

100%!

Let’s add in active ride height, a CVT box, 90’s Fuel, full launch control.. oh and v10 hybrids

[Deesee]

Op

There you go

(Down hill Brazil start).

https://twitter.com/deesee15723775/status/11971436...

[kiseca]

Deesee said:

kiseca said:

Deesee said:

It should be remembered that the F1 cars are built to the current Formula.

If you could increase the fuel flow, rev to 18k, do away with the 4MJ per lap restriction, really play about and de-restrict the MGUK and lose 100kg (or so, which they could), and another 70kg reduction in halo & other safety they would be 1980's qualifying monsters +++..

I think even now they'd destroy the '80s cars at least in race trim.

More advanced tyres
Better torque spread and comparatively little turbo lag
3 more gears keep engine in the sweetspot longer
Faster gearchanges because semi-auto box
More powerful - I know in qualifying the BMW was reputedly hitting 1500bhp, and then grenading after 3 laps, but I believe in racing trim the power output was 700-800bhp in the '80s turbo era, and modern engines are, according to Renault, now knocking on the door of 1000bhp.
EDIT: Also, possibly now slipperier, definitely so if they're allowed to sprint with DRS open.

100%!

Let’s add in active ride height, a CVT box, 90’s Fuel, full launch control.. oh and v10 hybrids

haha yeah.. and dragster back wheels and tyres and an extra long wheelbase... actually that made me remember that even top fuel dragsters are running to a set of rules and restrictions. I wonder what the current potential of an unlimited dragster formula would be...

[Terminator X]

Car vs bike - 4 laps in the car vs 3 laps in the bike to make it "competitive" ...

https://youtu.be/7tlxG1-aWtI?t=160

TX.

[RobM77]

Terminator X said:

Car vs bike - 4 laps in the car vs 3 laps in the bike to make it "competitive" ...

https://youtu.be/7tlxG1-aWtI?t=160

TX.

Unless you're on General Gassing or Biker Banter though, as I'm sure you know that's a foregone conclusion from basic physics. Bikes have awesome power to weight ratios, but: they can't run any decent width of tyre (cause they need to lean into corners); they only have two tyres contacting the ground; they can't run any downforce at all: and their CofG relative to their length is relatively high, causing wheelies and stoppies really easily upon longitudinal acceleration. Furthermore, they're inherently unstable so find it harder to ride bumps and curbs etc. Ride one on the public road with lots of straight bits and traffic and you get the impression they're the fastest thing with an engine, but as soon as you go to a race track with braking and cornering it's a different story.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 20th November 15:13

[GCH]

LimaDelta said:

I remember in the 90s when some magazine did a performance comparison round a track, with some Fiat thing, a Ferrari road car and their current F1 car. The Fiat was given something like a half lap head-start before the Ferrari set off, which was also given something like a half lap head-start before the F1 set off before beating them both. All a bit vague I know, but given this is PH I'm sure someone else will be along in a minute with a link to the exact article.

The point was, they are inconceivably fast, even when compared to some of the fastest road cars.

LimaDelta said:

I've found the video, Fiat Bravo vs F550 vs F1.

linky

There have been a few of those done....Hakkinen, Coulthard, and also the original one with Senna (and a Honda concerto ) which isn't on youtube unfortunately, but is here:
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x31eibo

[Parsnip]

RobM77 said:

130R said:

The 919 Evo could do 0 to 124 mph in 4 seconds and 0 to 186 mph in under 8 seconds according to Neel Jani. That has similar (maybe very slightly quicker) acceleration to the latest F1 cars.

Amazing Couple that with the mega braking and cornering and it must have been eye opening to drive, even for experienced racers.

Driving a car with 720bhp into a corner and then having it suddenly gain another 440bhp on corner exit must be more than a little odd.

The Nurburgring lap is something else to watch - merrily bombing along at 320kph, big boost from the hybrid and its instantly at 360kph.

Would love to see them do a F1 "evo", but as alluded to with the Newey Gran Turismo car - highly unlikely that anyone would be able to drive it without their head flying off or them passing out.

As an aside - anyone who has ever been on the "Rita Queen of Speed" ride at Alton Towers knows roughly what the acceleration we are talking about here feels like - horrendous - I would be unable to remember my own name and would be genuinely terrified if my right foot was in charge of that. I would definitely not be able to do it while avoiding other cars, playing with steering wheel settings and speaking to the pit wall on the radio...

Edited by Parsnip on Thursday 21st November 09:37

[RobM77]

Parsnip said:

RobM77 said:

130R said:

The 919 Evo could do 0 to 124 mph in 4 seconds and 0 to 186 mph in under 8 seconds according to Neel Jani. That has similar (maybe very slightly quicker) acceleration to the latest F1 cars.

Amazing Couple that with the mega braking and cornering and it must have been eye opening to drive, even for experienced racers.

Driving a car with 720bhp into a corner and then having it suddenly gain another 440bhp on corner exit must be more than a little odd.

The Nurburgring lap is something else to watch - merrily bombing along at 320kph, big boost from the hybrid and its instantly at 360kph.

Would love to see them do a F1 "evo", but as alluded to with the Newey Gran Turismo car - highly unlikely that anyone would be able to drive it without their head flying off or them passing out..

Yes, that's one of the few ring record laps I've watched in entirety. Driving at that speed with 1 metre of runoff is definitely something for the driver to reflect on afterwards!

[kiseca]

Parsnip said:

Driving a car with 720bhp into a corner and then having it suddenly gain another 440bhp on corner exit must be more than a little odd.

The Nurburgring lap is something else to watch - merrily bombing along at 320kph, big boost from the hybrid and its instantly at 360kph.

Would love to see them do a F1 "evo", but as alluded to with the Newey Gran Turismo car - highly unlikely that anyone would be able to drive it without their head flying off or them passing out.

As an aside - anyone who has ever been on the "Rita Queen of Speed" ride at Alton Towers knows roughly what the acceleration we are talking about here feels like - horrendous - I would be unable to remember my own name and would be genuinely terrified if my right foot was in charge of that. I would definitely not be able to do it while avoiding other cars, playing with steering wheel settings and speaking to the pit wall on the radio...

Edited by Parsnip on Thursday 21st November 09:37

I would guess it's like any speed. Your mind speeds up to compensate. I don't know how - perhaps by reducing focus on other things. If you're driving along at motorway speeds for an hour or two and then slow down to town speeds, it feels like you're really crawling because you've got used to your environment changing much more quickly.

I'd expect that for most of us, given enough exposure and experience to driving a Formula 1 car, you'd get used to operating at that speed, ignoring the forces and focussing on the decisions you need to make. You'd adapt naturally and sooner or later find time to focus on cars around you, pit comms and wheel settings. On the straights at least... many current F1 drivers can't cope with talking to the pits while cornering.

I'm not saying we'd get up to F1 competitive speed though I'm rather estimating that private drivers of classic Formula 1 cars go through this adaptive period successfully as a norm.

[RobM77]

kiseca said:

Parsnip said:

Driving a car with 720bhp into a corner and then having it suddenly gain another 440bhp on corner exit must be more than a little odd.

The Nurburgring lap is something else to watch - merrily bombing along at 320kph, big boost from the hybrid and its instantly at 360kph.

Would love to see them do a F1 "evo", but as alluded to with the Newey Gran Turismo car - highly unlikely that anyone would be able to drive it without their head flying off or them passing out.

As an aside - anyone who has ever been on the "Rita Queen of Speed" ride at Alton Towers knows roughly what the acceleration we are talking about here feels like - horrendous - I would be unable to remember my own name and would be genuinely terrified if my right foot was in charge of that. I would definitely not be able to do it while avoiding other cars, playing with steering wheel settings and speaking to the pit wall on the radio...

Edited by Parsnip on Thursday 21st November 09:37

I would guess it's like any speed. Your mind speeds up to compensate. I don't know how - perhaps by reducing focus on other things. If you're driving along at motorway speeds for an hour or two and then slow down to town speeds, it feels like you're really crawling because you've got used to your environment changing much more quickly.

I'd expect that for most of us, given enough exposure and experience to driving a Formula 1 car, you'd get used to operating at that speed, ignoring the forces and focussing on the decisions you need to make. You'd adapt naturally and sooner or later find time to focus on cars around you, pit comms and wheel settings. On the straights at least... many current F1 drivers can't cope with talking to the pits while cornering.

I'm not saying we'd get up to F1 competitive speed though I'm rather estimating that private drivers of classic Formula 1 cars go through this adaptive period successfully as a norm.

I can't speak for F1, but I raced various single seaters for ten years and yes, you just adapt. Getting in your road car to drive home after a day's testing is a weird experience; even in my Elise I remember it seemed like you were stuck in fifth gear the whole time, and the cornering and braking seemed non-existent. Throughout that time I tried a lot of road cars and none of them really felt fast at all.

[anonymous-user]

Group B was pretty crazy back in the '80s.

A few stories in the past about it being as fast as the F1 car which you can read here below.

I read in a few different articles that the Audi S1 Evo 2 was producing 600 BHP at the 1000 Lakes event in Finland back in 1985.

They state 0-60 in 2 seconds.

If this is true that is pretty crazy when you consider a Ferrari Testarossa of the same year had 390 BHP.

https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/henri-toivonen-at-es...