Zandvoort 2020

[TheDeuce]

carl_w said:

Deesee said:

TheDeuce said:

Also 18 degree banked corner, 4.5m bottom to top

Hmmm, are these cars not 2.0m wide. That’s quite tight..

Surely 4.5m is the vertical distance, so only an issue if two cars are at 90 degrees about the roll axis to the ground?

With the bank angle 18° and the 4.5m vertical height (opposite) you should be able to calculate the track width using sin (18°)=4.5/(track width) to get a result in metres.

Yes, vertical, and yes - you have two thirds of the equation, the rest is calculable. The only issue is if the banked corner really is 4.5m high from the lower to upper edge of the track limits, that would make it nearly 14m wide!! So I will assume in the quoted "4.5m high" they're referring to the overall height of what they have to build, not just the height of the track itself.

[thegreenhell]

TheDeuce said:

Yes, vertical, and yes - you have two thirds of the equation, the rest is calculable. The only issue is if the banked corner really is 4.5m high from the lower to upper edge of the track limits, that would make it nearly 14m wide!! So I will assume in the quoted "4.5m high" they're referring to the overall height of what they have to build, not just the height of the track itself.

What's the issue with it being 14m wide? Minimum track width for new-build FIA Grade 1 circuits is 12m, and the starting grid minimum is 15m.

[TheDeuce]

thegreenhell said:

TheDeuce said:

Yes, vertical, and yes - you have two thirds of the equation, the rest is calculable. The only issue is if the banked corner really is 4.5m high from the lower to upper edge of the track limits, that would make it nearly 14m wide!! So I will assume in the quoted "4.5m high" they're referring to the overall height of what they have to build, not just the height of the track itself.

What's the issue with it being 14m wide? Minimum track width for new-build FIA Grade 1 circuits is 12m, and the starting grid minimum is 15m.

It's not a new build circuit though, and in any case for a new element such as this banked corner I would have assumed they wouldn't make it even more expensive by making it wider than it needs to be.

No issue though, just surprised me.

[anonymous-user]

Has this got approval through the dutch courts yet? Last i read had the locals trying to stop the circuit development.

[TheDeuce]

jsf said:

Has this got approval through the dutch courts yet? Last i read had the locals trying to stop the circuit development.

There will always be an objection... But I feel pretty certain it will go ahead. So long as Max remains in F1 that circuit is going to sell out each season. Imagine the money, and the tourism money for the local area too.

The fact it's on the calendar means someone has probably assessed issues such as local objections already and decided there is no real threat to it going ahead. I'd also assume they have a similar government mechanic over there to what we have over here: If it's for the greater good of the country/economy, it'll get waived through centrally irrespective of local tantrums.

[anonymous-user]

So no then.

F1 are already looking at alternate plans.

[TheDeuce]

jsf said:

So no then.

F1 are already looking at alternate plans.

No? Based on what?

I can't find any developments since this: https://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/f1-dutch-...

Which just comes down to an environmental dispute. There is always an environmental objection to any large project though.. often still goes ahead. Hope so in this case.

[andycaca]

I hope it still goes ahead, we've bought the ferry tickets already! If it's anything like spa, the (crowd, atmosphere) weekend is going to be insane on the campsites

[TheDeuce]

Done a bit more digging and the only sign of any actual legal process to stop the project was that a judge was due to consider halting works on environmental technical grounds (lapsed permit) back on the 27th October. Since then, no 'new' news.

If the judge had issued such an order it would be in the public domain and would be big news. Can't see any sign of that though.

Also apparently they're a bit tight on funds to complete the work, not really a surprise. However, local council has already committed €4m and over €2m from central government. Looks like those with real influence do at least want to make sure it goes ahead and there must surely be enough long term financial gain to ensure that whatever shortfall there is will be met one way or another.

[thegreenhell]

Some photos of the construction work here:

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/news/f1/banked-...

[anonymous-user]

I hope they do something about the safety of the exit of the last corner, there has been some very nasty (and fatal) crashes there in the last few years where drivers have lost control on the exit and hit the inside barrier hard at high speed.

Banking that last corner is only going to increase the speed there.

[Deesee]

Oh here the 3D render from the track designer

https://youtu.be/_ypVsOpi-dI

[anonymous-user]

Looks like my question answer is no.

[Big Nanas]

jsf said:

Looks like my question answer is no.

I suppose they've calculated that today's cars are so much safer now, that it's unlikely to be an issue?
I cant see the FIA allowing anything that's specifically 'dangerous'.

[RizzoTheRat]

Official request for event permission was submitted on 1 December apparently. I'd assumed it would have been submitted ages ago.

https://dutchgp.com/en/intense-work-in-preparation...

Slightly confused that that site seems to suggest Saturday tickets went on sale a couple of months ago while others say they're not available yet. Looks like you had to pre-register a few months ago though so I guess I may have missed the boat.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Tuesday 3rd December 13:29

[anonymous-user]

Big Nanas said:

I suppose they've calculated that today's cars are so much safer now, that it's unlikely to be an issue?
I cant see the FIA allowing anything that's specifically 'dangerous'.

It's not just todays cars that race on these circuits.

That particular corner is pretty dangerous in some car classes, it is a good opportunity to improve it during the upgrade.

[Deesee]

Here’s the final corner (now).. flyover.. looks impressive


https://twitter.com/F1/status/1201814092425629696?...

[patmahe]

Looks pretty cool, the virtual lap of the circuit above looks like there will be a lot of nice sequences. Should be an interesting addition to the calendar.

[TheDeuce]

Deesee said:

Here’s the final corner (now).. flyover.. looks impressive


https://twitter.com/F1/status/1201814092425629696?...

It's going to be pretty special isn't it! A gp at a banked circuit again and a properly banked circuit at that.

Gonna throw up a few surprises when the cars run that corner for the first time next year I think - with some teams stumbling on the perfect setup and others struggling to make it work all weekend.

[Deesee]

Here’s a close up..