F1 TV audience dwindling.

[blueST]

This conversation gave me an interesting thought. Is it the coverage rather than the sport itself that switches off as many people as it switches on? Now that we can see and hear in minute detail every strategy decision, tyre choice, when the driver is nursing a problem or running low on fuel. These things always existed, but we just never knew until maybe after the fact, so during the race we assumed every driver was trying as hard as possible which feels more exciting, even when they weren’t. Is it possible to have too much analysis and insight for the good of the sport?

I enjoy all that insight most of the time, but it has crossed my mind that the racing might be more interesting if telemetry from car to pit was reduced or made so it could only be examined by the team after the race, so the drivers had to make more decisions from themselves.

[TheDeuce]

blueST said:

This conversation gave me an interesting thought. Is it the coverage rather than the sport itself that switches off as many people as it switches on? Now that we can see and hear in minute detail every strategy decision, tyre choice, when the driver is nursing a problem or running low on fuel. These things always existed, but we just never knew until maybe after the fact, so during the race we assumed every driver was trying as hard as possible which feels more exciting, even when they weren’t. Is it possible to have too much analysis and insight for the good of the sport?

I enjoy all that insight most of the time, but it has crossed my mind that the racing might be more interesting if telemetry from car to pit was reduced or made so it could only be examined by the team after the race, so the drivers had to make more decisions from themselves.

You're not wrong imo, more on the driver's shoulders could be interesting. But I think the biggest factor in terms of those contributing to this thread is that they're reduced to watching highlights. They miss the live heart and soul build up to each twist and turn and instead just get the synopsis of the race after the event. If I watched that way I would conclude that 2019 was utter ste.

F1 actually doesn't have a problem, it's flying high as a global sport. It's just the average UK viewer that's stuck between either resenting the paywall or paying up. Don't expect logic from either camp, both sides need sympathy in my view!

[Tyre Smoke]

I have Sky F1, all the over analysing leaves me cold. I think that may be part of the problem.

I watched a few IndyCar races last year and found that more engaging - even the oval racing. There were more overtakes, far more. Less analysis of tyres, etc. Why? Because they all use the same. Not sure F1 should go quite so far down that route, but it did hold my attention more. Obviously there's refuelling in Indy too, so another dimension there.

[Derek Smith]

F1 in the 60s was a bit like sex. It happened infrequently so every one was exciting just for happening. Quality was an afterthought.

Now there's 20 or so races a season there's a lot more demand to be entertained, and entertained means, in this instance, something similar to what it was when I fell in love with the sport.

It won't happen. It has changed. Rugby has changed since the days of amateurs, as has tennis. The 'greats' of days gone by would be slaughtered by the also rans of today. That's not a pleasant thought, but it's true.

To suggest that <whatever> new regulation makes the sport artificial is really not understanding the sport. Everything about it is artificial. The nonsense that drivers got in their cars and for two or more hours drove it as fast as they could really needs to stop.

In the days of refueling we had the race divided into three sprints normally. Other than that, it is all about management of resources.

If you don't like F1, OK. You're entitled to your opinion. If you want nothing to do with the sport, what the hell are you doing on an F1 forum? In the nicest possible way: Clear Off. I don't want to hear continual moans. If a fan thought a particular race was dreadfully boring, then by all means, join the conversation. That's what fandom's all about. But don't diss the whole sport.

I can understand that you miss it. I can't, for the life of me, work our why you want to bother the rest of us with your disappointment.

If you think BTCC, oval racing, sports cars or competitive macrame is more exciting then you don't need me to point out what you should do. All I'd prefer is if you did it promptly.

[Tyre Smoke]

You too miss the point.

I still watch F1 occasionally. I don't dislike the sport. Where have I ever stated that?

The title of this thread is F1 audiences dwindling. Where would the discussion be if it was only you out and out fanboys on here? F1 isn't Marmite. You don't have a black and white opinion on it.

[ceesvdelst]

The interesting thing about discussions such as this is that for people that used to love F1 but do not anymore, they are yesterday's news, just like old people sometimes feel in a room or in society in general, they just don't "get it". You are told "go away then, leave the room", despite the fact you probably know more about F1 history than 90% of people watching it right now and all the commentators. Funny attitude to have for people who invested in it for 40 odd years. but expected in this modern "it's all about you" world.

Sorry, but we get it entirely, but to us and seemingly a lot of others it does NOT represent good sport, entertainment, racing etc. Are we then not allowed a voice? because we do not fall over ourselves to spend 300 quid on Silverstone tickets every year?

Let's look at other motorsports. MotoGP, consistently delivering for 40 odd years, yes domination happens still, big personalities, great crashes, great racing, heroic riding. BTCC, amazing racing, inconsistent winning, anyone of 20 can win on their day, great tv coverage free tv coverage. WEC, GT and endurance, takes some getting into, but once into it, it offers everything F1 does not, proper passing, lappery an F1 driver can only dream of, endless tactics, boring at times, but sometimes sensational because of that. NASCAR, still pretty much the same as it has been for decades, has its up and downs, was exploited to fans for years but they are realising unlike F1, who continue to milk endlessly. There are umpteen others.

If you obssess about F1, fair play to you, I almost admire your will!

[garythesign]

TheDeuce said:

You're not wrong imo, more on the driver's shoulders could be interesting. But I think the biggest factor in terms of those contributing to this thread is that they're reduced to watching highlights. They miss the live heart and soul build up to each twist and turn and instead just get the synopsis of the race after the event. If I watched that way I would conclude that 2019 was utter ste.

F1 actually doesn't have a problem, it's flying high as a global sport. It's just the average UK viewer that's stuck between either resenting the paywall or paying up. Don't expect logic from either camp, both sides need sympathy in my view!

I have watched F1 for over 50 years. One thing I miss is the sound of the earlier cars. The current power units sound so feeble, even though I know they are not

I am not. Sky subscriber so watch the highlights on C4. A couple of times a year I think these have been badly edited and lose the plot. For someone only mildly interested in the sport, this may be off putting, but for myself it’s fine.

I think 2019 was a fabulous season and look forward to this year.

I would like to thank the contributors who comment in an even handed manner. Also, for those who start the thread each month.

[Derek Smith]

ceesvdelst said:

Sorry, but we get it entirely, but to us and seemingly a lot of others it does NOT represent good sport, entertainment, racing etc. Are we then not allowed a voice? because we do not fall over ourselves to spend 300 quid on Silverstone tickets every year?

You've made your point. OK. Nothing I will say will convince you otherwise. Nothing you say will convince me that I am not entertained by F1.

You are allowed a voice. But why get all preachy on an F1 forum? This is for F1 fans. Go somewhere else. Go onto your particular sport and tell all the people there that you are fed up with F1. I hope, for your sake, they won't be quite as unmoved as I am by your pronouncements.

Ask yourself why you are telling us that you think we are wrong? Do you get some sort of kick, or feeling of superiority, over telling us we're wrong?

If you wish to opine about tactics, driving style, a specific overtake, or how great a particular event was then this is the place to go. If you want to moan and criticise, then set up your own forum where those of a like mind can argue that F1 is dead.

I'm not interested. £300 too much? Then don't go. I spend more than that each year going to events such at Goodwood, Silverstone, Brands, Brooklands and other venues. It's not that much in the great scheme of things. Whether you fall over at the price or not is not that much bother to me.

It's not difficult; if you don't like our sport, go somewhere else.

[ceesvdelst]

Again, I am not telling anybody anything, merely making points.

And I also said quite openly, if you like modern F1 fair play to you. You deserve respect and sympathy quite honestly.

I also said that people who used to like it are not allowed a voice, which is something you seem to misunderstand, as you spend most of your post telling me to go away.

[ukaskew]

Tyre Smoke said:

I have Sky F1, all the over analysing leaves me cold. I think that may be part of the problem.

I've always hated it with football and it does feel like F1 has gone in that direction big time, they're just trying to fill hours.

We have Sky as we got a great deal and we've managed to get a great deal year on year, so we've not missed out at all as yet, but I switch on at 5 past the hour and switch off after the podium.I don't mind a bit of Ted's notebook occasionally, it's quite a nice way to wrap up the various stories from the weekend and it's pretty light, but asking 100 experts their opinion on one incident? No thanks.

I'm not sure I could go back to highlights, for me it just doesn't work for F1 as often you need to see the bigger picture to get real enjoyment out of it. A great overtake is nice, but often it's the 10 laps leading up to it which can offer real intrigue.

Edited by ukaskew on Monday 6th January 12:55

[lord summerisle]

Tyre Smoke said:

rdjohn said:

Excellent post a Derek. I would love to read Tyresmoke’s version of the race.

2019 was very good and has set a target for an even more spellbinding 2020 season. France has realised its folly and is looking to improve the circuit.

I can't give you one, because I don't remember it. It didn't stick in my mind at all. What Derek has done is condensed two hours of 'racing' boredom into a couple of paragraphs of 'highlights'. Which consist of overtakes. Overtaking should not be a highlight of a race.

Sorry... but wha? on track battles, resulting in an overtake... not a highlight?

[Tyre Smoke]

lord summerisle said:

Tyre Smoke said:

rdjohn said:

Excellent post a Derek. I would love to read Tyresmoke’s version of the race.

2019 was very good and has set a target for an even more spellbinding 2020 season. France has realised its folly and is looking to improve the circuit.

I can't give you one, because I don't remember it. It didn't stick in my mind at all. What Derek has done is condensed two hours of 'racing' boredom into a couple of paragraphs of 'highlights'. Which consist of overtakes. Overtaking should not be a highlight of a race.

Sorry... but wha? on track battles, resulting in an overtake... not a highlight?

No. that's the point. Overtaking should be something that just happens. There will be good overtakes, bad overtakes, ill judged overtakes, but to go all swoony because Vettel overtook Hamilton going into turn 2 in an overtaking area is not a highlight. You could argue that Verstappen going around the outside of Bottas on Spoon was a great overtake and worthy of another look, but it's not a massively overhyped highlight as it is now. There is so little excitement on track these days, that any overtaking is viewed as a massively earthshattering occurence.

Yes, when you get a bit of to and fro then you have a great battle and a highlight. But a single overtake is not a highlight.

And Derek, you need to give your head a wobble. Your opinion is not the only valid one here.

[lord summerisle]

Tyre Smoke said:

lord summerisle said:

Tyre Smoke said:

rdjohn said:

Excellent post a Derek. I would love to read Tyresmoke’s version of the race.

2019 was very good and has set a target for an even more spellbinding 2020 season. France has realised its folly and is looking to improve the circuit.

I can't give you one, because I don't remember it. It didn't stick in my mind at all. What Derek has done is condensed two hours of 'racing' boredom into a couple of paragraphs of 'highlights'. Which consist of overtakes. Overtaking should not be a highlight of a race.

Sorry... but wha? on track battles, resulting in an overtake... not a highlight?

No. that's the point. Overtaking should be something that just happens. There will be good overtakes, bad overtakes, ill judged overtakes, but to go all swoony because Vettel overtook Hamilton going into turn 2 in an overtaking area is not a highlight. You could argue that Verstappen going around the outside of Bottas on Spoon was a great overtake and worthy of another look, but it's not a massively overhyped highlight as it is now. There is so little excitement on track these days, that any overtaking is viewed as a massively earthshattering occurence.

Yes, when you get a bit of to and fro then you have a great battle and a highlight. But a single overtake is not a highlight.

And Derek, you need to give your head a wobble. Your opinion is not the only valid one here.

So, basically, you are dismissing what was a good race (Barhain), with plenty of thing happening. not simple DRS overtakes.... but multi corner battles... drivers making mistakes resulting in opportunities for others. Cars side by side for multiple corners through high speed sections.

[Tyre Smoke]

Not at all.

I was talking generally. That might have been a great race, I don't think I saw it. If I had, I would probably say it was a good, exciting race. Like the rain delayed Canadian race a few years back, or the 'I know what I'm doing' Brazil, or Verstappen's heart stopping moment in the rain at Interlagos.

There have been some epic moments, but I fear they are becoming much fewer.

Despite what Derek is posting, I don't dislike F1 I just don't find it as enthralling as it was and the over analysing of absolutely everything turns me off. And the reason they do that, i think is because there is so much time to fill. There are only so many interviews you can do.

[Deesee]

lord summerisle said:

So, basically, you are dismissing what was a good race (Barhain), with plenty of thing happening. not simple DRS overtakes.... but multi corner battles... drivers making mistakes resulting in opportunities for others. Cars side by side for multiple corners through high speed sections.

Bahrain was a modern classic, possible best race this yr for the drama and action.

[TheDeuce]

Tyre Smoke said:

Not at all.

I was talking generally. That might have been a great race, I don't think I saw it. If I had, I would probably say it was a good, exciting race. Like the rain delayed Canadian race a few years back, or the 'I know what I'm doing' Brazil, or Verstappen's heart stopping moment in the rain at Interlagos.

There have been some epic moments, but I fear they are becoming much fewer.

Despite what Derek is posting, I don't dislike F1 I just don't find it as enthralling as it was and the over analysing of absolutely everything turns me off. And the reason they do that, i think is because there is so much time to fill. There are only so many interviews you can do.

I feel the epic moments (or least moments that grip the viewer as they unfold live on track) have been more this last season than any other for a very long time. Bahrain was a particular stunner but there have been several other races that really were well worth paying for and watching live because of on track action.

[Derek Smith]

Tyre Smoke said:

And Derek, you need to give your head a wobble. Your opinion is not the only valid one here.

Not sure that I deserve that. My criticisms are about those who come onto a fan forum to diss the sport. It's not a matter of opinion so much as intent.

In general, I've discussed matters rather than dismissed other people's opinions. However, I've been clear enough: if you don't like the sport and merely want to criticise those who follow it, then that’s disruptive. They are the ones I want to go elsewhere, perhaps start another thread where they can moan away with others of the same ilk.

You said that by the second race we all knew who’d win the WDC and WCC, yet it was a fascinating, and close race which Ferrari, with a little bit or reliability, of driver and mechanicals, might well have come in first and third, the direct antithesis of what you suggested.

Great season, one of the best I can remember. I’m willing to discuss it, perhaps with less of the passive/aggressive rejection, but you need to come up with a sensible objection to why the race didn’t promise a close season. Of course, you might have found it helpful to have watched it.

[StevieBee]

blueST said:

This conversation gave me an interesting thought. Is it the coverage rather than the sport itself that switches off as many people as it switches on?

This isn't what you mean but is related......

There was a an interesting debate on a pro-video type forum a while back. There's some growing consensus that the superior quality of broadcast imagery that we have today - whilst outstanding in detail and colour - has the unintended consequence of loosing some of the 'cinematic drama' of before. This relates to all fast action sports but particularly motor sports.

It's a complex thing to explain but as I understand it comes down to frame rates (the number of frames that make up one second of footage). A smaller frame rate would see the car travel further between frames. Our brain smooths it out but the effect was more 'edgy' and dramatic than it appears today.

[TheDeuce]

StevieBee said:

This isn't what you mean but is related......

There was a an interesting debate on a pro-video type forum a while back. There's some growing consensus that the superior quality of broadcast imagery that we have today - whilst outstanding in detail and colour - has the unintended consequence of loosing some of the 'cinematic drama' of before. This relates to all fast action sports but particularly motor sports.

It's a complex thing to explain but as I understand it comes down to frame rates (the number of frames that make up one second of footage). A smaller frame rate would see the car travel further between frames. Our brain smooths it out but the effect was more 'edgy' and dramatic than it appears today.

Not in the same way or for the same reasons, but I do believe people would sometimes in the past pay greater attention due to being a little less spoon fed. These days though, there is so much entertainment available to everyone that if it's not dumbed down quite a bit, many will simply give up and find something easier to do!

Whenever none F1 fan friends try and watch a race with me they soon enough end up looking confused and start with a stream of questions, each answer prompting another question - there is a lot about F1 which doesn't immediately make much sense to newbies.

[ceesvdelst]

Fair play, you can actually get people to watch f1 who know you.

I could never manage that now, yet in 08, a houseful watching Lewis win his first title, (secretly wanted the other guy). Only one of those people still even acknowledges F1 now, most drifted off after some time.

People come and go, my question has to be what attracts people now? If you had not watched in the 80's to late 00's, what made you get into it now?