F1 TV audience dwindling.
Discussion
Bernie kicked the UK in the goolies - and the fall off in audience levels in the UK is the result. There is no denying that.
The UK matters to F1 - whether you like it or not.
Picking up audiences in countries where F1 is not part of the cultural DNA is ephemeral and fleeting. They may show initial curiosity and interest but it will not last. Don't p
s off your core fan base and expect there to be no consequences.
The UK matters to F1 - whether you like it or not.
Picking up audiences in countries where F1 is not part of the cultural DNA is ephemeral and fleeting. They may show initial curiosity and interest but it will not last. Don't p
s off your core fan base and expect there to be no consequences. Eric Mc said:
Bernie kicked the UK in the goolies - and the fall off in audience levels in the UK is the result. There is no denying that.
The UK matters to F1 - whether you like it or not.
Picking up audiences in countries where F1 is not part of the cultural DNA is ephemeral and fleeting. They may show initial curiosity and interest but it will not last. Don't ps off your core fan base and expect there to be no consequences.
Eric, I don't disagree with you about any of that theory - but I do think that UK effect on F1 isn't all important...It's a monster business these days, and yes for sure without the British input it very likely wouldn't have become that. Does that mean that by failing to pacify the British fans today, and failing to keep that British people involved that the whole show is under threat? I doubt it. Provided the current situation doesn't go on indefinitely, and I don't see any reason to think it will.The UK matters to F1 - whether you like it or not.
Picking up audiences in countries where F1 is not part of the cultural DNA is ephemeral and fleeting. They may show initial curiosity and interest but it will not last. Don't p
s off your core fan base and expect there to be no consequences. Yes Bernie let us down with the Sky rights but that won't last and once that's out of the way Liberty will have some form of strategy to get the British people connected again, they have already been very clear that the way things are today is not what they want. If the situation lasted forever, then perhaps the 'core' of F1 might itself start to depart Britain, with the loss of the factories. But they aren't going anywhere anytime soon - the Sky deal will be done and finished before anything drastic happens to effect Britain's role in making F1 happen.
And sadly, in the interim some fans will depart and not re-connect post Sky. But many will, and if the sport is good new fans will wake up to it.
I think it's important to judge the success of Liberty and the changes made so far without getting too bogged down with the fact us Brits have been temporarily alienated. F1 will outlast that situation so, for me, I'm still able to be happy that the sport itself is doing well - and after a long period of stagnation towards the end of Bernie's reign.
Some new countries that were "conquered by F1" have not maintained interest for very long, other have and are growing in interest. You can't win every battle in business but you can focus on where you apply effort to both maintain and explore new opportunities in places you believe it can be successful - to me it looks like that's exactly what's happening. The results appear pretty good too.
jsf said:
I see no signs of Sky losing it's F1 franchise.
You expect them to give signs?Liberty aren't investing in and promoting their own platform because they want the consumer to pay for the content and also Sky as an extra middle man expense. Their model seems pretty clear to me... They produce the sport and the consumer pays them direct (or soon via Amazon) for access. The Sky deal is a little out of date for that model.
Sky themselves are running towards the end anyway - they're far too small vs the global content providers now. They're in rude good health today perhaps, but the industry has gone a different path, Sky monopolised the UK subscription TV market by having the dish infrastructure which is no longer needed to receive content, it can be sent via the web. They used that wealth to buy up rights to push people on to their subscription packages, but without that wealth sooner or later they will fail to supply enough exclusive content. In the end... Liberty don't need Sky and the UK consumer increasingly doesn't need a dish bolted to the side of their house.
That's not to say that if Sky offered 'enough' when it comes to contract renewal that Liberty wouldn't accept, all things have a price - but it's hard to see why Sky would offer that level of money again. They have already imo misjudged the F1 market in the UK and as a result they have eroded it. They've de-valued the thing they paid for by making access too expensive and reliant on being a Sky customer - or paying even more in many cases for Now TV.
Sky won't lose the F1 franchise as such, but in 5 years time I really don't think they'll renew it, at least not on the current terms. Until then, they probably will make money, I don't think the same stunt is repeatable after that though - there has to come a point where the price takes so many fans out of the equation that the UK market for F1 simply isn't worth the investment anymore.
fttm said:
FWIW . I watch F1 on TV because it's free and shown here in N America usually live at 0600 so doesn't tie up my day .It's a shadow of its former self with the V6 and all the driver aid nonsense . Give me a howling V10 and I'd gladly pay , neither of those will ever happen though .
Never happen? Half of it has happened, driver aids were all banned by the mid 90's.Unless you meant it's nonsense they were banned and you want them back?
Deesee said:
Here’s the Q&A released.https://corp.formula1.com/qa-ian-holmes-and-frank-...
& a very interesting snippet..
The sport either appeals to you or it does not.
That used to be the only decision to make.
I will NEVER pay to watch F1 on any device, it simply does not interest me enough.
Having said that I would not pay for anything to be honest, no sport is worth paying for. It is a sport run by billionaires, owned by them and governed by the super rich, why on earth should I pay to be advertised at?
The only reason we have to is because someone decided that was how we were going to receive it, we were not asked, we were told. And that is enough for me I am afraid and no doubt for millions of others, there is better stuff to watch for free or cheaper.
if it came to it and F1 became something I would watch, I would find a way to watch it illegally.
That used to be the only decision to make.
I will NEVER pay to watch F1 on any device, it simply does not interest me enough.
Having said that I would not pay for anything to be honest, no sport is worth paying for. It is a sport run by billionaires, owned by them and governed by the super rich, why on earth should I pay to be advertised at?
The only reason we have to is because someone decided that was how we were going to receive it, we were not asked, we were told. And that is enough for me I am afraid and no doubt for millions of others, there is better stuff to watch for free or cheaper.
if it came to it and F1 became something I would watch, I would find a way to watch it illegally.
I quite like the Sky F1 channel, I like the staff, and the classic races and other features they show can be good. I'd like them to change to a "Sky Motorsports" channel and show more of everything, but that might be unlikely.
What annoys me is the price, I think its £18 a month for F1 alone, and generally its only £5 more to have all Sky Sports channels, and I'm not interested in those at all. Makes £18 seem a but of a rip off. I think £5 a month for F1 would be reasonable but I'm dreaming.
Its annoying that the F1 TV app doesnt have availability over here, at least not without a VPN.
What annoys me is the price, I think its £18 a month for F1 alone, and generally its only £5 more to have all Sky Sports channels, and I'm not interested in those at all. Makes £18 seem a but of a rip off. I think £5 a month for F1 would be reasonable but I'm dreaming.
Its annoying that the F1 TV app doesnt have availability over here, at least not without a VPN.
Pebbles167 said:
I quite like the Sky F1 channel, I like the staff, and the classic races and other features they show can be good. I'd like them to change to a "Sky Motorsports" channel and show more of everything, but that might be unlikely.
What annoys me is the price, I think its £18 a month for F1 alone, and generally its only £5 more to have all Sky Sports channels, and I'm not interested in those at all. Makes £18 seem a but of a rip off. I think £5 a month for F1 would be reasonable but I'm dreaming.
Its annoying that the F1 TV app doesnt have availability over here, at least not without a VPN.
It is annoying... And with the app, based on other pricing for the same around the world its around £75-100 for the entire year - I don't imagine many people would complain about that, it's really not a lot of money for the amount of entertainment. And it's actually less than £5 a race!What annoys me is the price, I think its £18 a month for F1 alone, and generally its only £5 more to have all Sky Sports channels, and I'm not interested in those at all. Makes £18 seem a but of a rip off. I think £5 a month for F1 would be reasonable but I'm dreaming.
Its annoying that the F1 TV app doesnt have availability over here, at least not without a VPN.
Shame we can't have it without jumping through loop holes, and if caught apparently people have had their F1TV accounts closed with no refund.
jsf said:
I see no signs of Sky losing it's F1 franchise.
It seems to me that Sky is more ingratiated with Liberty than they were with Bernie. I have no inside information but it looks like Sky produce some programs for Liberty?As a viewer I don't mind paying and don't care how many viewers they lose.
C Lee Farquar said:
jsf said:
I see no signs of Sky losing it's F1 franchise.
It seems to me that Sky is more ingratiated with Liberty than they were with Bernie. I have no inside information but it looks like Sky produce some programs for Liberty?As a viewer I don't mind paying and don't care how many viewers they lose.
Sky usually have a deal for the F1 at season start, usually £10pm on top of the standard Entertainment sub but that was last year. They'll likely have something this season too.
C Lee Farquar said:
jsf said:
I see no signs of Sky losing it's F1 franchise.
It seems to me that Sky is more ingratiated with Liberty than they were with Bernie. I have no inside information but it looks like Sky produce some programs for Liberty?As a viewer I don't mind paying and don't care how many viewers they lose.
Their contract will continue to be extended, it works well for both parties with both continuing to grow their revenue stream.
jsf said:
They provide the coverage for an expanding world market, not just UK.
Their contract will continue to be extended, it works well for both parties with both continuing to grow their revenue stream.
That's true and Sky's production of F1 content is generally well received, no reason they should not be very happy with each other on that front.Their contract will continue to be extended, it works well for both parties with both continuing to grow their revenue stream.
Liberty have however said publicly that they're not happy with the Sky deal in place and strongly intimated that they wouldn't have signed that deal, by way of saying they would like to see an entirely different deal in place: https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/25/f1-admits-uk-s...
Whilst I do think that Sky are themselves going to struggle vs global content providers n the mid term future, due chiefly to their historic reliance on 'owning the infrastructure' (they don't own it, but they supply and fit the dishes and have the platform to make it easy for people) and also their size vs Netflix and Amazon... I do believe when it comes to the business of making and commissioning content, they're very good indeed. I'm somewhat biased as I work on a couple of their biggest shows - but also that does give me a view of them at work and the results they achieve vs budget compared to some other shows I get involved with.
With that deal, sky pulled a cheeky one quite frankly, and they jumped at the £££ a little too hastily. I think they did probably overestimate the conversion rate of FTA>Paying F1 customers, and also underestimated the fall off of appeal once F1 is all but scrubbed from FTA. Giving C4 the highlights isn't really enough imo, it's a sport - if it's not live and complete at least for every second race then people are quickly going to detach from it. Just look at some of the comments on here about last season being typically dull... That is the perception people will increasingly form if they're stuck with just a highlight show after the event.
TheDeuce said:
I'm sure the naysayers will be along soon enough to pick holes in the numbers and how they're calculated... Whatever, it's clear F1 attendance and viewership is in the ascendancy which is great for all fans 
Depends on how you look at them. They quote cumulative audiences as rising but that's not how the man in the street would count it IMO. That's unique viewers and that is falling. Viewing figures, like pretty much anything, can be spun to make them sound however you want.Let's say I watch the race live on Sky, then watch the C4 highlights and a few days later watch an edit on the race on the F1 social media channel. That would count as three separate viewers in a lot of counting methods when it's one to most people.
Edited by Kraken on Tuesday 28th January 10:06
Kraken said:
Depends on how you look at them. They quote cumulative audiences as rising but that's not how the man in the street would count it IMO. That's unique viewers and that is falling. Viewing figures, like pretty much anything, can be spun to make them sound however you want.
Let's say I watch the race live on Sky, then watch the C4 highlights and a few days later watch an edit on the race on the F1 social media channel. That would count as three separate viewers in a lot of counting methods when it's one to most people.
I understand that - and for sure, they're going to present the numbers in the most positive manner. Looking beyond that however, I see that their unique viewers are effectively stable, they're not losing any overall, at least not more than the margin of error in how unique viewers are guesstimated.. Yet the sport is also increasingly becoming pay to view in many established countries around the world. Normally a transition to pay to view would trigger a substantial drop in overall viewers, but that has not happened. I can't see that's possible unless they are genuinely managing to expand the popularity of the sport in new countries to compensate.Let's say I watch the race live on Sky, then watch the C4 highlights and a few days later watch an edit on the race on the F1 social media channel. That would count as three separate viewers in a lot of counting methods when it's one to most people.
Edited by Kraken on Tuesday 28th January 10:06
You are far too believing in my opinion. They are TRYING out new markets - but new markets are massively fickle.
Sports are very much part of culture and customs and "parachuting in" a sport that has no significant historic or cultural presence in that country is not a guarantee that the sport will take-off there. There will always be an initial curiosity factor but that is not sustainable in the longer term.
Sure, you may very well pick up a loyal (but very small and niche) following but that is not good enough. Look how very popular American sports have spluttered along in the UK.
Sports are very much part of culture and customs and "parachuting in" a sport that has no significant historic or cultural presence in that country is not a guarantee that the sport will take-off there. There will always be an initial curiosity factor but that is not sustainable in the longer term.
Sure, you may very well pick up a loyal (but very small and niche) following but that is not good enough. Look how very popular American sports have spluttered along in the UK.
Eric Mc said:
You are far too believing in my opinion. They are TRYING out new markets - but new markets are massively fickle.
Sports are very much part of culture and customs and "parachuting in" a sport that has no significant historic or cultural presence in that country is not a guarantee that the sport will take-off there. There will always be an initial curiosity factor but that is not sustainable in the longer term.
Sure, you may very well pick up a loyal (but very small and niche) following but that is not good enough. Look how very popular American sports have spluttered along in the UK.
I don' disagree with you about the potential pitfalls as they expand. The fact is however that they have been pushing in to new territories for several years now, and also increasing paywalls in more established territories, so whatever the drop off rate due to paywalls, or simply a failure to properly establish the sport in a meaningful way, they are clearly having success in some areas - otherwise their viewer numbers would not be generally stable, and over the last several years have improved overall.Sports are very much part of culture and customs and "parachuting in" a sport that has no significant historic or cultural presence in that country is not a guarantee that the sport will take-off there. There will always be an initial curiosity factor but that is not sustainable in the longer term.
Sure, you may very well pick up a loyal (but very small and niche) following but that is not good enough. Look how very popular American sports have spluttered along in the UK.
Liberty have said that their target, or ideal, is to have a roughly 70% of the sport FTA in each territory, and 30% PTV, which to me sounds fairly reasonable and enough to keep the general population involved with the sport in each country that F1 is generally appealing to. It won't gain traction everywhere for a multitude of reasons, and that's understandable and not indicative of them taking the wrong approach imo.
Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 28th January 12:37
Eric Mc said:
Yes - we know what they are doing. And in my view, killing the whole edifice.
Kick the loyal fan base in the goolies for a mess of pottage (to mangle me metaphors).
Dumb.
It's all very well resenting changes and corporate greed ala Bernie that that were effectively made in the 80's and have shaped the sport up to the current day.. but that can't be undone. Liberty bought the sport as an asset and all we can hope for is they keep it accessible to the general public, the racing improves and the grandstands start to fill up again. That all appears to be happening. Albeit not at all accessible in this country right now...Kick the loyal fan base in the goolies for a mess of pottage (to mangle me metaphors).
Dumb.
We can all wish things had worked out differently, but I can also be objective about how liberty are managing the modern sport, and the results are frankly better than they were for many years under the previous regime.
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