F1 TV audience dwindling.
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
What have I said that prevents you or others from enjoying F1 in its current guise?
I follow current F1 but that does not mean I'm eneamoured with it.
I am allowed my opinion I hope, and if it doesn't chime with that of others, it's not really any big deal, is it.
I was very tempted to delete my last reply to you - but I typed it so I'll stand by it. I do regret my tone though.I follow current F1 but that does not mean I'm eneamoured with it.
I am allowed my opinion I hope, and if it doesn't chime with that of others, it's not really any big deal, is it.
It is frustrating when things finally start to get better in F1 and you still insist it's all useless. On reflection however, I have not spent as longer life as you have following the sport - maybe when I have I will be even harder than you on it.
It's one thing to disagree with you, which I'm sure you don't mind. It's quite another to claim you're not a fan and I apologise for that. I would be very happy on many a level to watch a race with you. Albeit we may argue... But that's ok.
You all know my opinion.
I have simply outgrown F1. I think that is an important aspect. As a kid you admire the drivers, yearn to see it, wow at the cars and tracks, then you actually get to do stuff for yourself, realise how much you are being ripped off, find other, better, more involving, interesting, embracing racing to watch and realise what an idiot I was watching this garbage for decades! I still try now and then, but all I hear is endless chat about penalties, track cutting, less about racing and incident and politics, things that were grimy, fun and made characters.
That's not fair actually, for a lot of the time it was good, I have just outgrown it, I matured, it's that simple.
It is now not the peak of driver talent for me, I put more emphasis on a guy triple stinting in the 24 hour race at the Nordschliefe lapping Golfs and Clio's at night than I ever would on some prima-donna, petulant little twerp who b
hes about his rivals endlessly on the radio and then tried to tell me he his saving the planet by himself. Or guys in WRC, or pretty much anyone who race bikes at the top level in any format, they make F1 drivers look like petulant little schoolboys, which is basically what they are.
There are bright spots like Norris and Verstappen and some of the team stuff that goes on, but then you have Stroll and it makes you walk away again.
I fail to see anything interesting about the tech, it is wasteful, overly elaborate and when you step back just for a second looks almost as ridiculous as the man who squeezes Gatorade into NFL players mouths, it's money for moneys sake and it is crass, ridiculous and rather silly in ways.
Yet the punters lap it up, let them I say, let them be ripped off, it employs thousands of people in the UK, both in teams and in the supply chain.
I am quite happy to let F1 still be the pinnacle as quite simply I and thousands around me can enjoy the sports I know are better for less money, less hassle, less crowding, and less rip off!!
I have simply outgrown F1. I think that is an important aspect. As a kid you admire the drivers, yearn to see it, wow at the cars and tracks, then you actually get to do stuff for yourself, realise how much you are being ripped off, find other, better, more involving, interesting, embracing racing to watch and realise what an idiot I was watching this garbage for decades! I still try now and then, but all I hear is endless chat about penalties, track cutting, less about racing and incident and politics, things that were grimy, fun and made characters.
That's not fair actually, for a lot of the time it was good, I have just outgrown it, I matured, it's that simple.
It is now not the peak of driver talent for me, I put more emphasis on a guy triple stinting in the 24 hour race at the Nordschliefe lapping Golfs and Clio's at night than I ever would on some prima-donna, petulant little twerp who b
hes about his rivals endlessly on the radio and then tried to tell me he his saving the planet by himself. Or guys in WRC, or pretty much anyone who race bikes at the top level in any format, they make F1 drivers look like petulant little schoolboys, which is basically what they are.There are bright spots like Norris and Verstappen and some of the team stuff that goes on, but then you have Stroll and it makes you walk away again.
I fail to see anything interesting about the tech, it is wasteful, overly elaborate and when you step back just for a second looks almost as ridiculous as the man who squeezes Gatorade into NFL players mouths, it's money for moneys sake and it is crass, ridiculous and rather silly in ways.
Yet the punters lap it up, let them I say, let them be ripped off, it employs thousands of people in the UK, both in teams and in the supply chain.
I am quite happy to let F1 still be the pinnacle as quite simply I and thousands around me can enjoy the sports I know are better for less money, less hassle, less crowding, and less rip off!!
TheDeuce said:
Eric Mc said:
What have I said that prevents you or others from enjoying F1 in its current guise?
I follow current F1 but that does not mean I'm eneamoured with it.
I am allowed my opinion I hope, and if it doesn't chime with that of others, it's not really any big deal, is it.
I was very tempted to delete my last reply to you - but I typed it so I'll stand by it. I do regret my tone though.I follow current F1 but that does not mean I'm eneamoured with it.
I am allowed my opinion I hope, and if it doesn't chime with that of others, it's not really any big deal, is it.
It is frustrating when things finally start to get better in F1 and you still insist it's all useless. On reflection however, I have not spent as longer life as you have following the sport - maybe when I have I will be even harder than you on it.
It's one thing to disagree with you, which I'm sure you don't mind. It's quite another to claim you're not a fan and I apologise for that. I would be very happy on many a level to watch a race with you. Albeit we may argue... But that's ok.
My earliest recollections of F1 were the Mansell and Senna days of the very early 90's and even now in my early 30s I get the 'tinted specs' view that they were better days. They were iconic drivers to me as a kid, in monster cars and I was in awe of the whole thing.
Strangely enough if you ask my dad he will tell you his early memories of F1 were the days of Hunt and Lauda in the 70s. He will also tell you that they were better days, that the drivers were iconic in monster cars and that he was in awe of the whole thing.
Similarly I have no doubt that kids watching F1 these days view Hamilton and Vettel as heroes and see the current cars as monsters. In 30 years they will look back and think these days were awesome.
You cannot help the era that you were born and you can never replace the wonderment and fascination of those early days but times change. It doesn't mean it is any worse now.
Everyone has their 'golden era' but just because that is yours doesn't mean that it was any more special that the golden era of someone from another generation. We all stumbled across this magnificent sport in our own way and it is just as special for those finding it now as it was for all of us in decades past.
Yes the cars change and the sport globalises but we need to remember F1 is probably the fastest moving history. Today's car is tomorrow's museum piece so appreciate what you see. The future generation will no doubt wish they could have seen today's cars just like I would have loved to see those of the 70s. Perception of the good old days is very much a result of the era you found the sport, and not the racing that era actually produced.
Do I find F1 as exciting now as it was when I was a kid? No, but that's just age. Is my favourite moment of the week when that last car lines up on the grid on Sunday afternoon. Absolutely.
Strangely enough if you ask my dad he will tell you his early memories of F1 were the days of Hunt and Lauda in the 70s. He will also tell you that they were better days, that the drivers were iconic in monster cars and that he was in awe of the whole thing.
Similarly I have no doubt that kids watching F1 these days view Hamilton and Vettel as heroes and see the current cars as monsters. In 30 years they will look back and think these days were awesome.
You cannot help the era that you were born and you can never replace the wonderment and fascination of those early days but times change. It doesn't mean it is any worse now.
Everyone has their 'golden era' but just because that is yours doesn't mean that it was any more special that the golden era of someone from another generation. We all stumbled across this magnificent sport in our own way and it is just as special for those finding it now as it was for all of us in decades past.
Yes the cars change and the sport globalises but we need to remember F1 is probably the fastest moving history. Today's car is tomorrow's museum piece so appreciate what you see. The future generation will no doubt wish they could have seen today's cars just like I would have loved to see those of the 70s. Perception of the good old days is very much a result of the era you found the sport, and not the racing that era actually produced.
Do I find F1 as exciting now as it was when I was a kid? No, but that's just age. Is my favourite moment of the week when that last car lines up on the grid on Sunday afternoon. Absolutely.
I watched F1 as a kid, I'm 35 now so you know how far back that goes. My days were spent watching Schumacher and Alonso dominate. Then I remember Lewis coming into F1, winning then Red Bull taking over. After that about 5 years ago I stopped watching F1, just didn't watch it anymore, I still read about it on online. Recently I've come back to it and last year was an amazing season for me, I went to Silverstone and Abu Dhabi last year, met Alonso, Prost and many other current drivers in the paddock at Abu Dhabi, and it was a surreal experience. I am fully back into F1, I played F1 fantasy, watched every qualifying and race last year, as mentioned went to two GP's, and now can't wait for drive to survive. I think I am a bigger fan now than I was when I was younger! Really hope this season is as good as last years obviously a few circuits are usually uneventful but overall if this season is as good and hopefully better than last years it will be great!
TwentyFive said:
...You cannot help the era that you were born and you can never replace the wonderment and fascination of those early days but times change. It doesn't mean it is any worse now.
Everyone has their 'golden era' but just because that is yours doesn't mean that it was any more special that the golden era of someone from another generation. We all stumbled across this magnificent sport in our own way and it is just as special for those finding it now as it was for all of us in decades past.
Yes the cars change and the sport globalises but we need to remember F1 is probably the fastest moving history. Today's car is tomorrow's museum piece so appreciate what you see. The future generation will no doubt wish they could have seen today's cars just like I would have loved to see those of the 70s. Perception of the good old days is very much a result of the era you found the sport, and not the racing that era actually produced.
Do I find F1 as exciting now as it was when I was a kid? No, but that's just age. Is my favourite moment of the week when that last car lines up on the grid on Sunday afternoon. Absolutely.
This is my feeling too. F1 evolves like no other sport, and the fact is that as people we also evolve along with the rest of the world... but only to a point. At that point, we all wish the world would just calm down and repeat what we have gotten used to as 'good'.Everyone has their 'golden era' but just because that is yours doesn't mean that it was any more special that the golden era of someone from another generation. We all stumbled across this magnificent sport in our own way and it is just as special for those finding it now as it was for all of us in decades past.
Yes the cars change and the sport globalises but we need to remember F1 is probably the fastest moving history. Today's car is tomorrow's museum piece so appreciate what you see. The future generation will no doubt wish they could have seen today's cars just like I would have loved to see those of the 70s. Perception of the good old days is very much a result of the era you found the sport, and not the racing that era actually produced.
Do I find F1 as exciting now as it was when I was a kid? No, but that's just age. Is my favourite moment of the week when that last car lines up on the grid on Sunday afternoon. Absolutely.
F1 can't be blamed for continuing to adapt and re-invent itself anymore than we can be blamed for getting older and less passionate about change. I'm still young enough (just..) to find some passion for the positive changes happening in F1, but I also admit that in other areas of my life, I find change tiresome already. I was in the supermarket the other day staring at a packet of 'hamless sandwich slices'. When did we start selling food based on what it isn't in it!? Come to think of it there is a lot about the modern world that leaves me feeling slightly bewildered...
JayK12 said:
I watched F1 as a kid, I'm 35 now so you know how far back that goes. My days were spent watching Schumacher and Alonso dominate. Then I remember Lewis coming into F1, winning then Red Bull taking over. After that about 5 years ago I stopped watching F1, just didn't watch it anymore, I still read about it on online. Recently I've come back to it and last year was an amazing season for me, I went to Silverstone and Abu Dhabi last year, met Alonso, Prost and many other current drivers in the paddock at Abu Dhabi, and it was a surreal experience. I am fully back into F1, I played F1 fantasy, watched every qualifying and race last year, as mentioned went to two GP's, and now can't wait for drive to survive. I think I am a bigger fan now than I was when I was younger! Really hope this season is as good as last years obviously a few circuits are usually uneventful but overall if this season is as good and hopefully better than last years it will be great!
I'm 3 years your senior, and I can relate the very same story. I think the Red Bull domination and the eternally awkward 'vettel wins, vettel boo'd' years of the sport were tough to stick with, a lot of us wandered off. But 2019 was indeed a restorative year for the sport, an absolute joy for anyone that likes racing - it was real racing, an awful lot of it.Christ knows what 2021 onward will bring.. but I feel pretty confident that this year will be effectively a continuation of last year, good for the same reasons and I can't wait to get it underway.
Eric Mc said:
The Schumacher era started the rot big time for me. Any semblance of "sport" remaining went out the window in that period.
In fact, even Ayrton Senna's behaviour at times upset me - but he had enough other aspects to his personality that made him an interesting character.
The rot started for me when they let advertising in--just didn't seem the same, but as someone above said I wouldn't be anywhere else on a sunday afternoon when the flag comes down.In fact, even Ayrton Senna's behaviour at times upset me - but he had enough other aspects to his personality that made him an interesting character.
Sponsorship and advertising has been part of motor racing since it started.
First ever Grand Prix - France 1906 -
French GP 1914 -
The big change in 1968 was the permission granted to teams to run cars in sponsors' liveries - something which had not been allowed in European racing (including sports car racing) before. It was common practice in the US and had been for decades.
The nearest we came to team spnsorship pre 1968 was the UDT Laystall team which ran Coopers in the early 1960s.
First ever Grand Prix - France 1906 -
French GP 1914 -
The big change in 1968 was the permission granted to teams to run cars in sponsors' liveries - something which had not been allowed in European racing (including sports car racing) before. It was common practice in the US and had been for decades.
The nearest we came to team spnsorship pre 1968 was the UDT Laystall team which ran Coopers in the early 1960s.
MissChief said:
Not sure if he means on the cars.
I'm sure he does... But what's the difference? It's a space, they sold it for £££ - same as the adverts that have been track side since day one.I appreciate aesthetically the cars would look better without it, but it's not really impacting the racing itself.
It made a huge difference when it was allowed.
As ever, it was Colin Chapman who was the first to give it a go. Because of his involvement in Indy car racing between 1963 and 1968, he'd seen how much money teams got trough direct sponsorship. However, there was a ban on it in European racing. Teams could get money from outside sponsors in the form of direct help such as "free" oil, fuel, tyres, spark plugs etc.
However, the teams could not carry overt advertising on the cars, not even in the form of stickers, as the cars were obliged to carry national racing colours.
In 1966, cigarette advertising was banned on UK TV and the cigarette companies were looking at where they could spend their advertising budgets. Chapman contacted Imperial Tobacco to see if they would be interested in sponsoring Lotus and he had his cars painted in the red and white John Player Gold Leaf team colours for the Tasman series which was held in the winter of 1967/68 (sponsorship was allowed in Australia and New Zealand).
This is Jim Clark at Warwick Farm, New South Wales on 24 January 1968
The first round of the 1968 Formula 1 World Championship was the South African GP, held a few weeks earlier on 1 January 1968. Notice the colour scheme worn on Clark's Lotus -
Notice that the car was in traditional British green although sponsorship stickers were evident.
By the time the Formula 1 season resumed in Spain in May 1968, the Lotus looked like this -
As ever, it was Colin Chapman who was the first to give it a go. Because of his involvement in Indy car racing between 1963 and 1968, he'd seen how much money teams got trough direct sponsorship. However, there was a ban on it in European racing. Teams could get money from outside sponsors in the form of direct help such as "free" oil, fuel, tyres, spark plugs etc.
However, the teams could not carry overt advertising on the cars, not even in the form of stickers, as the cars were obliged to carry national racing colours.
In 1966, cigarette advertising was banned on UK TV and the cigarette companies were looking at where they could spend their advertising budgets. Chapman contacted Imperial Tobacco to see if they would be interested in sponsoring Lotus and he had his cars painted in the red and white John Player Gold Leaf team colours for the Tasman series which was held in the winter of 1967/68 (sponsorship was allowed in Australia and New Zealand).
This is Jim Clark at Warwick Farm, New South Wales on 24 January 1968
The first round of the 1968 Formula 1 World Championship was the South African GP, held a few weeks earlier on 1 January 1968. Notice the colour scheme worn on Clark's Lotus -
Notice that the car was in traditional British green although sponsorship stickers were evident.
By the time the Formula 1 season resumed in Spain in May 1968, the Lotus looked like this -
Eric Mc said:
It made a huge difference when it was allowed.
As ever, it was Colin Chapman who was the first to give it a go. Because of his involvement in Indy car racing between 1963 and 1968, he'd seen how much money teams got trough direct sponsorship. However, there was a ban on it in European racing. Teams could get money from outside sponsors in the form of direct help such as "free" oil, fuel, tyres, spark plugs etc.
However, the teams could not carry overt advertising on the cars, not even in the form of stickers, as the cars were obliged to carry national racing colours.
In 1966, cigarette advertising was banned on UK TV and the cigarette companies were looking at where they could spend their advertising budgets. Chapman contacted Imperial Tobacco to see if they would be interested in sponsoring Lotus and he had his cars painted in the red and white John Player Gold Leaf team colours for the Tasman series which was held in the winter of 1967/68 (sponsorship was allowed in Australia and New Zealand).
I can see that it would have been a big visual difference, but I don't see why it's a bad thing, nor any different in principal than track side advertising. The money had to increase if the sport was to grow and develop as it has did in the following decades. It also enabled teams to enter the sport that didn't have the level of capital required to do so - didn't Frank Williams effectively bankroll the beginnings of WGPE by having sponsors lined up ahead of bringing the team together?As ever, it was Colin Chapman who was the first to give it a go. Because of his involvement in Indy car racing between 1963 and 1968, he'd seen how much money teams got trough direct sponsorship. However, there was a ban on it in European racing. Teams could get money from outside sponsors in the form of direct help such as "free" oil, fuel, tyres, spark plugs etc.
However, the teams could not carry overt advertising on the cars, not even in the form of stickers, as the cars were obliged to carry national racing colours.
In 1966, cigarette advertising was banned on UK TV and the cigarette companies were looking at where they could spend their advertising budgets. Chapman contacted Imperial Tobacco to see if they would be interested in sponsoring Lotus and he had his cars painted in the red and white John Player Gold Leaf team colours for the Tasman series which was held in the winter of 1967/68 (sponsorship was allowed in Australia and New Zealand).
The Yoeman Credit Racing Team was the first in 1959, when Yoeman Credit's parent company wanted it's name on the cars it became the Bowmaker racing team. Surtees and Salvadori drove for them in 1961/62 in F1, first with a Cooper and then with a Lola Mk4.
It's often stated Colin Chapman was the first to exploit commercial sponsorship in F1, he was a few years behind this large UK credit company, who named the team after themselves.
It's often stated Colin Chapman was the first to exploit commercial sponsorship in F1, he was a few years behind this large UK credit company, who named the team after themselves.
I've been watching F1 for most of my adult life, and have attended quite a few races.
I do still watch it, and enjoyed last year in general. Still, the performance differences between the few top teams and the rest are so marked that it is only in freak circumstances that some team will even be on the podium, let alone win. Thus we have the Mercedes-Ferrari-Red Bull and then a trailing group of also rans that are often just development teams for the very well financed leaders.
There is less tension because to a degree we all know after the first few races who will be dominant. I know this has happened in the past, but I wonder if new audiences will find this exciting. Also. the myriad technical rules and attempts to level things out such as DRS have not served to level the playing field. The amount of money it takes to win consistently is staggering.
I do hope F1 continues and improves, but I am of the opinion that interest is cars in general is on the decline. I know a surprising number of people who are 18-20 years old without driving licences. They live in cities and have web services. I hope I am completely wrong.
I do still watch it, and enjoyed last year in general. Still, the performance differences between the few top teams and the rest are so marked that it is only in freak circumstances that some team will even be on the podium, let alone win. Thus we have the Mercedes-Ferrari-Red Bull and then a trailing group of also rans that are often just development teams for the very well financed leaders.
There is less tension because to a degree we all know after the first few races who will be dominant. I know this has happened in the past, but I wonder if new audiences will find this exciting. Also. the myriad technical rules and attempts to level things out such as DRS have not served to level the playing field. The amount of money it takes to win consistently is staggering.
I do hope F1 continues and improves, but I am of the opinion that interest is cars in general is on the decline. I know a surprising number of people who are 18-20 years old without driving licences. They live in cities and have web services. I hope I am completely wrong.
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