Formula 1 Pre-season Testing February 2020
Discussion
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Well, true, there would be no investigation into industrial espionage.
However, I would imagine they are going to be squeaky clean on this due to the inevitable accusations.
REALIST123 said:
TheDeuce said:
Mercedes are off on their own race I think. The stuff worth debating is more like 4th place this season.
......again. Which, sadly isn’t really worth debating. Who cares who finishes 4th in any sport? Oh, well, early days, there’s still some hope but it doesn’t look good for real competition.
That said, it's looking like the gap might potentially close this year with racing point maybe (just maybe) punching above their weight and bridging the gap. Also McLaren not looking too shabby in terms of elevating themselves.
This season was in theory an extension of 2019 but it's looking to be a freak season. Bring that on...
CustardOnChips said:
The like of Tiger Woods, Federer, New Zealand Rugby, Barcelona etc. It allows us to see sport being performed at its absolute peak.
Indeed.But those are pure sporting contests - just men against men.
And the rules stay the same.
Unless Wenger can recalibrate the offside rule
TheDeuce said:
You're so wrong. Since it became established that there were 'three top teams' with no one else able to get close, the battle for fourth has been very valuable. It's become a championship within a championship!
That said, it's looking like the gap might potentially close this year with racing point maybe (just maybe) punching above their weight and bridging the gap. Also McLaren not looking too shabby in terms of elevating themselves.
This season was in theory an extension of 2019 but it's looking to be a freak season. Bring that on...
May I correct you? I’m wrong only in your opinion, which has no more value than mine or any other’s. That said, it's looking like the gap might potentially close this year with racing point maybe (just maybe) punching above their weight and bridging the gap. Also McLaren not looking too shabby in terms of elevating themselves.
This season was in theory an extension of 2019 but it's looking to be a freak season. Bring that on...
I can tell you that most team members don’t give a flying duck about anything other than winning. Mercedes only award team bonuses for a Championship win, for that very reason. Nothing for 2nd or 3rd even, let alone 4th. and it’s been that way since 2010, and declared as such.
RBR do award bonuses down to 3rd but nothing else but I can tell you that many team members aren’t interested in where they place, if they can’t win, other than for the few quid it brings.
Team managers might give another impression but for most of them 2nd is, as they say, the first of the losers. For me too.
Mercedes seem mighty impressive, best team I have ever seen in F1. Usually a team's dominance wanes after a few years, but not Mercedes, the seem to have motivation in spades and are always at least one step ahead of the game.
It's great for them, but a year of watching Lewis and Valterri picking up 1-2s will get pretty old, hard to see anything other than title number 7 for Lewis unless someone else turns up with something awesome next week, or has been sandbagging this week.
It's great for them, but a year of watching Lewis and Valterri picking up 1-2s will get pretty old, hard to see anything other than title number 7 for Lewis unless someone else turns up with something awesome next week, or has been sandbagging this week.
Danny Ric was interviewed on Sky and said how impressive it is that Mercedes as a team, despite their dominance, are still pushing the envelope and forcing the other teams to play catch up.
He stated that it should be the other teams, including his own, that should be pushing Mercedes and forcing them to defend.
A very rounded and sensible comment without the usual PR rubbish and another good reason to respect him as a driver and sensible guy.
He stated that it should be the other teams, including his own, that should be pushing Mercedes and forcing them to defend.
A very rounded and sensible comment without the usual PR rubbish and another good reason to respect him as a driver and sensible guy.
Astounded by the ignorance on this thread to be honest. I’m not sure if people writing off the season is typical PH F1 misery or just plain stupidity.
We haven’t even gotten to the performance runs yet!
It was only 12 months ago that mercedes were apparently done for on these very forums.
We haven’t even gotten to the performance runs yet!
It was only 12 months ago that mercedes were apparently done for on these very forums.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Astounded by the ignorance on this thread to be honest. I’m not sure if people writing off the season is typical PH F1 misery or just plain stupidity.
We haven’t even gotten to the performance runs yet!
It was only 12 months ago that mercedes were apparently done for on these very forums.
This. From the speed traps I saw, Ferrari looked to be running well down on power, for example. We haven’t even gotten to the performance runs yet!
It was only 12 months ago that mercedes were apparently done for on these very forums.
I don’t think we have seen any of the teams true pace, or where they might “rank”, yet this year. With the shortened tests, this week and next, I think the teams are having to concentrate their efforts more on data gathering and set up. If there are any fast runs they will, imho, be at the end of the next test when all other programs have been run. Their data correlation is so good that they know roughly where they are without the need to show or prove it.
As has been said last year Ferrari where head and shoulders ahead at the test....
As has been said last year Ferrari where head and shoulders ahead at the test....
janesmith1950 said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Astounded by the ignorance on this thread to be honest. I’m not sure if people writing off the season is typical PH F1 misery or just plain stupidity.
We haven’t even gotten to the performance runs yet!
It was only 12 months ago that mercedes were apparently done for on these very forums.
This. From the speed traps I saw, Ferrari looked to be running well down on power, for example. We haven’t even gotten to the performance runs yet!
It was only 12 months ago that mercedes were apparently done for on these very forums.
So at the traps they are down.
Deesee said:
Different aero philosophy from last year, they are running more downforce, have a massive amount of understeer and can’t run the speeds in the turns that Merc/RedBull/Racing point can.
So at the traps they are down.
I understand that. But I don't believe the real difference is anything like as severe as the traps made out.So at the traps they are down.
I also believe Ferrari were hurt by what happened last year, so have been avoiding performance runs to keep expectation down.
janesmith1950 said:
Deesee said:
Different aero philosophy from last year, they are running more downforce, have a massive amount of understeer and can’t run the speeds in the turns that Merc/RedBull/Racing point can.
So at the traps they are down.
I understand that. But I don't believe the real difference is anything like as severe as the traps made out.So at the traps they are down.
I also believe Ferrari were hurt by what happened last year, so have been avoiding performance runs to keep expectation down.
Maximum speeds yesterday (although not consistent with the regular pace runs)..
Grosjean 331 km/h
Vettel 329
Hamilton 328
Stroll 320
Albon 320
Sainz 320
Giovinazzi
Ocon 317
Kvyat 316
Gasly 316
Bottas 314
Ricciardo 313
Latifi 313
Verstappen 311
Norris 309
Magnussen 306
When Ferrari have a low fuel run high ERS engine mode it’s still got that blistering acceleration from last year..
But if they are 3/10th down a turn on a midfield car....
REALIST123 said:
May I correct you? I’m wrong only in your opinion, which has no more value than mine or any other’s.
I can tell you that most team members don’t give a flying duck about anything other than winning. Mercedes only award team bonuses for a Championship win, for that very reason. Nothing for 2nd or 3rd even, let alone 4th. and it’s been that way since 2010, and declared as such.
RBR do award bonuses down to 3rd but nothing else but I can tell you that many team members aren’t interested in where they place, if they can’t win, other than for the few quid it brings.
Team managers might give another impression but for most of them 2nd is, as they say, the first of the losers. For me too.
That's my personal view too! It's not my or your opinion, it's not about opinions - it is a fact that 4th is a thing these days for the teams that have no chance at all of beating the top three. Renault and McLaren have publicly cited winning the battle for 4th as their goal. Whatever our opinions may be, won't change the fact these teams have declared 4th their goal - effectively their 'win'.I can tell you that most team members don’t give a flying duck about anything other than winning. Mercedes only award team bonuses for a Championship win, for that very reason. Nothing for 2nd or 3rd even, let alone 4th. and it’s been that way since 2010, and declared as such.
RBR do award bonuses down to 3rd but nothing else but I can tell you that many team members aren’t interested in where they place, if they can’t win, other than for the few quid it brings.
Team managers might give another impression but for most of them 2nd is, as they say, the first of the losers. For me too.
It would indeed be different if there wasn't a sizeable gulf between the performance of the top three and the rest, but that's the way it is, and probably will remain the same this season, albeit there is always a chance another team could rise and have a shot with the established top three.
seymourski said:
I don’t think we have seen any of the teams true pace, or where they might “rank”, yet this year. With the shortened tests, this week and next, I think the teams are having to concentrate their efforts more on data gathering and set up. If there are any fast runs they will, imho, be at the end of the next test when all other programs have been run. Their data correlation is so good that they know roughly where they are without the need to show or prove it.
As has been said last year Ferrari where head and shoulders ahead at the test....
I agree we haven't yet and ultimately won't ever see 'the full truth' during testing regards the actual pecking order of the teams. But there are some truths.As has been said last year Ferrari where head and shoulders ahead at the test....
We know beyond a shadow of a doubt for instance, that Mercedes and racing point have cars that are substantially quicker than they were last year. We also know that Ferrari aren't where they thought they would be, partly because they have said as much, also their running has been interrupted with issues and the results so far are nowhere near what they would want to be seeing - regardless of their testing program. In the case of Ferrari I accept that next week they could transform that, but it remains a truth that they haven't hit the ground running this year.
Deesee said:
Grosjean 331 km/h
Vettel 329
Hamilton 328
Stroll 320
Albon 320
Sainz 320
Giovinazzi
Ocon 317
Kvyat 316
Gasly 316
Bottas 314
Ricciardo 313
Latifi 313
Verstappen 311
Norris 309
Magnussen 306
Hopefully Redbull can turn up the grunt a fair bit, although Merc are probably holding back as well. Can't see anyone touching them this year but happy to be proved wrong!Vettel 329
Hamilton 328
Stroll 320
Albon 320
Sainz 320
Giovinazzi
Ocon 317
Kvyat 316
Gasly 316
Bottas 314
Ricciardo 313
Latifi 313
Verstappen 311
Norris 309
Magnussen 306
Dunc.
dunc_sx said:
Hopefully Redbull can turn up the grunt a fair bit, although Merc are probably holding back as well. Can't see anyone touching them this year but happy to be proved wrong!
Dunc.
Mercedes are convinced that Ferrari were sandbagging, but the red car had a failure yesterday and the team didn’t look particularly upbeat. Maybe they have a few upgrades to being next week. Dunc.
Mercedes were unusual in taking the softer tyres, whereas in previous years they’d always worked through the programme and built up to shorter, faster runs in the second week. Although it was some statement that Bottas unofficially did the second fastest lap ever recorded at the circuit in the morning of the third day, with a brand new and hugely innovative car straight out of the box.
RP, Mclaren and possibly Renault are going to be fighting for the coveted fourth place, but I think they might be closer to those ahead than in previous years.
As always, it’s easy to read far too much into testing, where everyone is doing their own programme and there’s no scrutineering of cars. Well only see the true relative pace of everyone at qualifying in Melbourne. Well, probably everyone except Mercedes, they’ve built a total monster of a car!
Sandpit Steve said:
Mercedes are convinced that Ferrari were sandbagging, but the red car had a failure yesterday and the team didn’t look particularly upbeat. Maybe they have a few upgrades to being next week.
We can say with some confidence we haven't seen the best of the red car, they haven't done an ambitious looking lap yet. Is it sand bagging though? I get the impression they didn't get the results they expected day one and have subsequently been fiddling and head scratching over that, rather than trying to do anything impressive time-wise. In fact, they have essentially said as much now, so there we have it. Luckily they have 4 days to solve whatever is holding them back and a relatively short trip to/from the the factory so no doubt next week, we'll see the Ferrari more representative of whatever this years car will be capable of.Not sure what to say about the PU failure. It's a revised PU so it could be something very innocuous and easy to fix. The biggest upset of that failure may simply be a further loss of running time for them, which is probably quite painful as they must need as much data as possible if they have problems to fix in a short space of time.
Based on this week, next week will be fascinating to see how this and other stories start to resolve.
Teddy Lop said:
Is the banning of DAS for the best? part of me wonders if it had the potential to bring the field together once everyone had it, making cars less setup and tyre wear sensitive?
I think it's been banned for sheer conservatism, on the grounds that it just seems "wrong" to be pushing and pulling a steering wheel in addition to turning it. Same goes for the McLarens briefly having two brake pedals.
TheDeuce said:
REALIST123 said:
May I correct you? I’m wrong only in your opinion, which has no more value than mine or any other’s.
I can tell you that most team members don’t give a flying duck about anything other than winning. Mercedes only award team bonuses for a Championship win, for that very reason. Nothing for 2nd or 3rd even, let alone 4th. and it’s been that way since 2010, and declared as such.
RBR do award bonuses down to 3rd but nothing else but I can tell you that many team members aren’t interested in where they place, if they can’t win, other than for the few quid it brings.
Team managers might give another impression but for most of them 2nd is, as they say, the first of the losers. For me too.
That's my personal view too! It's not my or your opinion, it's not about opinions - it is a fact that 4th is a thing these days for the teams that have no chance at all of beating the top three. Renault and McLaren have publicly cited winning the battle for 4th as their goal. Whatever our opinions may be, won't change the fact these teams have declared 4th their goal - effectively their 'win'.I can tell you that most team members don’t give a flying duck about anything other than winning. Mercedes only award team bonuses for a Championship win, for that very reason. Nothing for 2nd or 3rd even, let alone 4th. and it’s been that way since 2010, and declared as such.
RBR do award bonuses down to 3rd but nothing else but I can tell you that many team members aren’t interested in where they place, if they can’t win, other than for the few quid it brings.
Team managers might give another impression but for most of them 2nd is, as they say, the first of the losers. For me too.
It would indeed be different if there wasn't a sizeable gulf between the performance of the top three and the rest, but that's the way it is, and probably will remain the same this season, albeit there is always a chance another team could rise and have a shot with the established top three.
Yes the top more successful teams have more fans and followers but then that's the same as football, there are still hundreds of thousands standing in miserable weather cheering on teams up and down the divisions, where success means keeping the wolf from the door and avoiding relegation.
I am a Mclaren "Fan" and was engaged and interested in the ups and downs. I am also a Hamilton fan and remained interested throughout the Red Bull years and the "Terrible" decision to go to Mercedes.
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