Formula 1 Pre-season Testing February 2020
Discussion
CallMeLegend said:
Doubt it since LH's issue was also oil supply related.
I think the relevance is that Williams have had more than one issue despite quite a bit less running. It could be that there is a common problem, but something about Williams packaging or proprietary kit on the car does something to exacerbate the issue.geeks said:
pits said:
geeks said:
Anyone else see the really weird Norris steering input stuff earlier?
Nope, what do you mean?Blimey, Binotto on the Sky show now saying that Racing Point are a threat and that he doesn't think Ferrari will be as competitive as they should be come Melbourne. Also that they are NOT sandbagging apparently.
Either he's the ultimate sandbagging lying git, or people need to start listening to what he's saying??
Either he's the ultimate sandbagging lying git, or people need to start listening to what he's saying??
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 27th February 17:17
TheDeuce said:
Blimey, Binotto on the Sky show now saying that Racing Point are a threat and that he doesn't think Ferrari will be as competitive as they should be come Melbourne. Also that they are NOT sandbagging apparently.
Either he's the ultimate sandbagging lying git, or people need to start listening to what he's saying??
Rari aren’t known for sandbagging like the others in pre-season testing...so they’re probably sandbagging Either he's the ultimate sandbagging lying git, or people need to start listening to what he's saying??
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 27th February 17:17
NFC 85 Vette said:
Just out of interest, why do you want him to leave? And who are the majority that want him to leave? I wasn't aware he was a problem. He's one of the most down-to-earth characters in the paddock and has a brilliant sense of humour when not neck deep in the pressure cooker that is Scuderia Ferrari.
Give him a car he's comfortable in, and he's still box office. Perhaps that's the issue some have - the fear that if Ferrari cracked it, they might have a few solid, successful years? There seems little chance of that anytime soon, so he's not really causing any bother - he makes enough unforced errors that it makes Hamilton's life quite easy - the media rejoice about that on an almost daily basis, and PH questions his mental state as if he's about to sectioned under the mental health act.
It's very weird, the desire to see him fail, or see his career end. I could understand it if there was a desire to perhaps see Danny Ric at Ferrari in his place, but the primary want appears to be to see his career end, and be sacked in fashion Prost was. At this moment in time, I'd just like to see someone, anyone - challenge Hamilton over a full season, otherwise they might as well just shorten the championship and finish it at Texas or Mexico, as that's all that's needed to wrap it up...
I dunno if people wish for bad so much as feel his 4xWDC status flatters the man somewhat, there are drivers that in that ferrari would have denied Hamilton at least one title, and that might have been better to observe.Give him a car he's comfortable in, and he's still box office. Perhaps that's the issue some have - the fear that if Ferrari cracked it, they might have a few solid, successful years? There seems little chance of that anytime soon, so he's not really causing any bother - he makes enough unforced errors that it makes Hamilton's life quite easy - the media rejoice about that on an almost daily basis, and PH questions his mental state as if he's about to sectioned under the mental health act.
It's very weird, the desire to see him fail, or see his career end. I could understand it if there was a desire to perhaps see Danny Ric at Ferrari in his place, but the primary want appears to be to see his career end, and be sacked in fashion Prost was. At this moment in time, I'd just like to see someone, anyone - challenge Hamilton over a full season, otherwise they might as well just shorten the championship and finish it at Texas or Mexico, as that's all that's needed to wrap it up...
Oh, and if we finished in Mexico on the assumption the title would be secured, then the title would actually be decided probably in Russia no?
patmahe said:
Anyone else think Racing Point are now Mercedes B team unofficially, with a view to it becoming more official when they become Aston Martin in 2021?
For 2021 winning teams need a b-team to filter some of their r&d through etc. I wouldn't be surprised if racing point is being embraced by Mercedes for that goal. TheDeuce said:
Blimey, Binotto on the Sky show now saying that Racing Point are a threat and that he doesn't think Ferrari will be as competitive as they should be come Melbourne. Also that they are NOT sandbagging apparently.
Either he's the ultimate sandbagging lying git, or people need to start listening to what he's saying??
There's some sort of issue, because the national pride within the team wouldn't allow transmitting such negativity to the media if it wasn't in someway genuine. Unfortunately I think it goes deeper than just downplaying their underlying pace. The low speed corner traction and down force are still an issue, and the legacy of last year's engine development being 'pegged back' by the FIA, means their trump card (straight line speed) is no longer available, and piling on down force to a car that hasn't got the power of the Merc any longer, means they're likely to go backwards rather than forwards. Either he's the ultimate sandbagging lying git, or people need to start listening to what he's saying??
Edited by TheDeuce on Thursday 27th February 17:17
I think I noted last week there was a chance that Racing Point would be hounding them, if they weren't on their game - the problem they face now potentially is that even if their strategy team are performing, the car might not have great pace to hang on to the back of the Red Bull or Merc.
McLaren are an interesting proposition this year also - testing's been fairly uneventful, but it looks a good bit of kit, and Sainz is a safe pair of hands. Norris I think is a gift to the sport, great talent, a bit of attitude, and superb sense of humour.
It could be a very interesting year, but I'd worry the only racing will be in the midfield, not at the top - Merc look to have covered all the bases, and a few oil pressure snags wont be a problem in a few weeks time.
Teddy Lop said:
I dunno if people wish for bad so much as feel his 4xWDC status flatters the man somewhat, there are drivers that in that ferrari would have denied Hamilton at least one title, and that might have been better to observe.
Oh, and if we finished in Mexico on the assumption the title would be secured, then the title would actually be decided probably in Russia no?
I don't disagree, because I think most of his WDC wins were provided by superior equipment (as is often the way) - if he qualified on pole, off he'd trot and you'd never see him. A few drivers that drove for Ferrari, are forever remembered fondly by the Tifosi in later years; Schumacher, Alonso, Alesi, Gilles - they're the ones that spring to mind if I looked at "hero drivers" in the red cars. Vettel is unlikely to be added to that list when he finishes his innings at Ferrari. He's the only driver they've had in recent years who had sufficient kit under him to get the job done, and didn't - his predecessors, while not necessarily more successful, dragged out results from much more defective kit.Oh, and if we finished in Mexico on the assumption the title would be secured, then the title would actually be decided probably in Russia no?
His temperament is always called into question when his emotions are played out live on air - anger, frustration. In the car he's unfiltered, and it's something I wish we saw more of, because it's a timely reminder than for all the technology involved, there's still a human being in there.
The thing that sticks with me with Vettel though, is his race craft - particularly in tyre management (Bahrain win against Bottas, superb drive). He hasn't got the single lap pace of LeClerc, but he can manage a set of tyres every bit as well as Hamilton, and because LeClerc hasn't got to that level yet, they forever end up tangling on track.
Regarding cutting down the championship rounds, of course if there's less rounds, there's less points available - but such has been the Merc dominance, that generally the title(s) get sewn up with 4 races to go, and audience numbers often take a dump from thereon.
Williams certainly had a much better day today, with the most laps of anyone, and its times seemed reasonably competitive, so my fears that its PU failures had been related to its installation rather than Merc being the source, have been allayed slightly. It certainly seems as though Merc is being a lot less conservative on the PU front this year, no doubt in response to Ferrari's power advantage in the second half of last season. Maybe they'll turn things down a little for the races.
To my mind, RP is unquestionably acting as Merc B team. It's no secret that Lawrence Stroll wanted Williams to do that when he was associated with them, and got quite frustrated that they wanted to maintain their engineering independence. If RP is as good as it looks this year, with a completely different concept from last season, then it will make a bit of a mockery of F1 supposedly being the pinnacle of motorsport. If the FIA doesn't tighten up the rules on staff 'revolving door' and nudge-nudge-wink-wink collaboration between teams, it could make the independent 'garagiste' teams a thing of the past. That would be bad for F1, as it's always the independent teams that keep F1 afloat when the manufacturers come and go.
To my mind, RP is unquestionably acting as Merc B team. It's no secret that Lawrence Stroll wanted Williams to do that when he was associated with them, and got quite frustrated that they wanted to maintain their engineering independence. If RP is as good as it looks this year, with a completely different concept from last season, then it will make a bit of a mockery of F1 supposedly being the pinnacle of motorsport. If the FIA doesn't tighten up the rules on staff 'revolving door' and nudge-nudge-wink-wink collaboration between teams, it could make the independent 'garagiste' teams a thing of the past. That would be bad for F1, as it's always the independent teams that keep F1 afloat when the manufacturers come and go.
NFC 85 Vette said:
There's some sort of issue, because the national pride within the team wouldn't allow transmitting such negativity to the media if it wasn't in someway genuine. Unfortunately I think it goes deeper than just downplaying their underlying pace. The low speed corner traction and down force are still an issue, and the legacy of last year's engine development being 'pegged back' by the FIA, means their trump card (straight line speed) is no longer available, and piling on down force to a car that hasn't got the power of the Merc any longer, means they're likely to go backwards rather than forwards.
I think I noted last week there was a chance that Racing Point would be hounding them, if they weren't on their game - the problem they face now potentially is that even if their strategy team are performing, the car might not have great pace to hang on to the back of the Red Bull or Merc.
McLaren are an interesting proposition this year also - testing's been fairly uneventful, but it looks a good bit of kit, and Sainz is a safe pair of hands. Norris I think is a gift to the sport, great talent, a bit of attitude, and superb sense of humour.
It could be a very interesting year, but I'd worry the only racing will be in the midfield, not at the top - Merc look to have covered all the bases, and a few oil pressure snags wont be a problem in a few weeks time.
I made the very same observation last week, Binotto wouldn't want to sandbag if it meant telling the tifosi they had a 'crap Ferrari'. The cost would be greater than the benefit, if there even is a benefit to sandbagging these days. I think I noted last week there was a chance that Racing Point would be hounding them, if they weren't on their game - the problem they face now potentially is that even if their strategy team are performing, the car might not have great pace to hang on to the back of the Red Bull or Merc.
McLaren are an interesting proposition this year also - testing's been fairly uneventful, but it looks a good bit of kit, and Sainz is a safe pair of hands. Norris I think is a gift to the sport, great talent, a bit of attitude, and superb sense of humour.
It could be a very interesting year, but I'd worry the only racing will be in the midfield, not at the top - Merc look to have covered all the bases, and a few oil pressure snags wont be a problem in a few weeks time.
Now he's repeated the same message today, personally I'm left feeling they genuinely do have a poor result on their hands and are simply trying to show they're realistic about that fact and are focussed on fixing it.
All guesswork of course! But as you say, it would be an odd line for the Ferrari TP.
Teddy Lop said:
there are drivers that in that ferrari would have denied Hamilton at least one title, and that might have been better to observe.
I'm not convinced that's true; not because the car wasn't good enough but because Ferrari themselves weren't. Only about half of the mistakes which cost Ferrari dear over the last couple of seasons were driver error. janesmith1950 said:
Might be worth a cheeky £10 on both Mercedes and Williams cars failing to finish in Melbourne.
Given Mercedes about 10 race distances before a single failure, and that failure was an engine shutdown due to a sensor reading which might turn out to be spurious, I think that's optimistic. kambites said:
Given Mercedes about 10 race distances before a single failure, and that failure was an engine shutdown due to a sensor reading which might turn out to be spurious, I think that's optimistic.
Exactly. They drove it until it failed and will fix it, it's not as if it's a core engine issue, it's an ancillary issue. It's done more than it needs to do in the season in any case.Bit weird that the Williams gave up earlier, and twice, but there could be another factor in that.
kambites said:
Given Mercedes about 10 race distances before a single failure, and that failure was an engine shutdown due to a sensor reading which might turn out to be spurious, I think that's optimistic.
Remember 2014 when not one single team completed a full race distance in pre-season testing but most cars got to the finish in Melbourne?I think Merc is seeing how far it can push the engine and knows what it needs to do to ensure reliability.
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