Formula 1 Pre-season Testing February 2020

[TheDeuce]

C Lee Farquar said:

I guess it won't help the rear tyres much.

True. But it's the fronts that fail first anyway, they take the beating (scrubbing).

[C Lee Farquar]

Some circuits are front limited, some are rear limited.

[anonymous-user]

The Moose said:

Or are they using it to draw attention away from something else?!

Yeah, they stole Ferrari's engine from Spa last year!

[Teddy Lop]

TheDeuce said:

janesmith1950 said:

I get an impression Mercedes haven't worked out how to make proper use of DAS yet. The drivers aren't raving about it and it might end up being one of those nice in theory ideas that's hard to apply in the real world. Of course, they might have nailed it and are keeping its effectiveness properly under wraps, including the drivers sounding a bit glum about it. Who knows?!

I think as a performance tool it's probably not a huge deal and as such we can't see it doing anything very impressive. But come race day, if either driver needs to make their tyres last a few more laps to gain an advantage... or they need to switch their tyres on in a hurry, it could perhaps have the power to alter podiums.

So much of the sport these days is about the tyres (love that or hate it..), and DAS should give their drivers the ability to control tyres more than the rest of the field. If it works, that could be very valuable.

its probably something that requires time and experience e.g. Trying different setups and scenarios, post race analysis, to understand how it helps them, how the tyres respond, and what can be done tactically with it - but as its being banned I doubt they'll throw the kitchen sink into developing it and will probably play safe.

[anonymous-user]

Wouldn't be massively surprised if they dumped it without it being raced.

[Clockwork Cupcake]

janesmith1950 said:

Wouldn't be massively surprised if they dumped it without it being raced.

Same here.

Although they'll probably run it until another team debuts it and then go "Ha ha! Psyche!" and drop it

[Paul_M3]

janesmith1950 said:

Wouldn't be massively surprised if they dumped it without it being raced.

What’s your thinking behind that?

What are the downsides to it? If they leave the steering wheel in the forward position it’s the same as every car on the grid. They then still have the option to straighten the toe when they want it.

It’s not like a new aero package which hasn’t worked and they need to revert to a previous version.

The effects of different toe angles would be well understood even before testing, it’s not a complex feature. (Even if the actual implementation was hard to engineer into the car)

[tin duck dave]

HustleRussell said:

thegreenhell said:

Some lap time analysis from Mark Hughes, using the filters and analysis described in the linked article, to give the following relative pace of all the cars from testing:

Mercedes	1min 15.3sec
Ferrari	1min 15.4sec
Red Bull	1min 15.5sec
Racing Point	1min 16.1sec
McLaren	1min 16.3sec
Renault	1min 16.3sec
AlphaTauri	1min 16.8sec
Alfa Romeo	1min 16.8sec
Williams	1min 16.8sec
Haas	1min 17.0sec

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single...

I find it hard to believe that Williams have halved the pace deficit in one winter

First issue is how 0.167 difference between merc and Ferrari gets rounded down to 0.1 in final list, surely it's more idealistic to say 0.2

[768]

Paul_M3 said:

What are the downsides to it?

Weight, and weight distribution, presumably. More complexity for the driver.

I can't see them dropping it just yet regardless. It's clearly not a disaster so they may as well keep everyone else guessing.

[HughG]

tin duck dave said:

HustleRussell said:

thegreenhell said:

Some lap time analysis from Mark Hughes, using the filters and analysis described in the linked article, to give the following relative pace of all the cars from testing:

Mercedes	1min 15.3sec
Ferrari	1min 15.4sec
Red Bull	1min 15.5sec
Racing Point	1min 16.1sec
McLaren	1min 16.3sec
Renault	1min 16.3sec
AlphaTauri	1min 16.8sec
Alfa Romeo	1min 16.8sec
Williams	1min 16.8sec
Haas	1min 17.0sec

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single...

I find it hard to believe that Williams have halved the pace deficit in one winter

First issue is how 0.167 difference between merc and Ferrari gets rounded down to 0.1 in final list, surely it's more idealistic to say 0.2

Read the article, which says it is a correction for time of day that the long runs were done.

[tin duck dave]

HughG said:

tin duck dave said:

HustleRussell said:

thegreenhell said:

Some lap time analysis from Mark Hughes, using the filters and analysis described in the linked article, to give the following relative pace of all the cars from testing:

Mercedes	1min 15.3sec
Ferrari	1min 15.4sec
Red Bull	1min 15.5sec
Racing Point	1min 16.1sec
McLaren	1min 16.3sec
Renault	1min 16.3sec
AlphaTauri	1min 16.8sec
Alfa Romeo	1min 16.8sec
Williams	1min 16.8sec
Haas	1min 17.0sec

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single...

I find it hard to believe that Williams have halved the pace deficit in one winter

First issue is how 0.167 difference between merc and Ferrari gets rounded down to 0.1 in final list, surely it's more idealistic to say 0.2

Read the article, which says it is a correction for time of day that the long runs were done.

Suggest you re-read it. It states the corrected time for race sim then like you say and then used that to give 0.167 per lap difference which instantly gets dropped to 0.1 in the list directly below.

[thegreenhell]

tin duck dave said:

Suggest you re-read it. It states the corrected time for race sim then like you say and then used that to give 0.167 per lap difference which instantly gets dropped to 0.1 in the list directly below.

It says 0.167% slower. Percent not tenths.

1m15.3 x 0.167% = 1m15.426

[HughG]

tin duck dave said:

Suggest you re-read it. It states the corrected time for race sim then like you say and then used that to give 0.167 per lap difference which instantly gets dropped to 0.1 in the list directly below.

You made me doubt myself then as I hadn't fact checked it after your original post.
Now I have done, the 0.167 is %, which on a 75.5s lap is 0.126 seconds.

[Paul_M3]

768 said:

Paul_M3 said:

What are the downsides to it?

Weight, and weight distribution, presumably. More complexity for the driver.

Yeah, possibly. I must admit I don’t know how much ballast the teams need to use these days, but I wouldn’t have thought the system adds a huge amount of weight in comparison. In terms of weight distribution it’s at the front of the car which is good.

I don’t think complexity for the driver is an issue. Compared to everything else they have to mess around with, pulling the steering wheel backwards at the start of a long straight is pretty simple.

Obviously I’m just guessing like everybody else is, but my gut feeling is that the effects of this system would be much easier to model and predict than most design aspects of the car, and that they wouldn’t have gone to so much effort unless they were confident it was worth it.

[andburg]

AMUS have also done a prediction based on long runs..

Pos Team Gap
1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull Racing +0.3s
3. Ferrari +0.6s
4. Racing Point +0.8s
5. McLaren +1.1s
6. Renault +1.2s
7. AlphaTauri +1.4s
8. Haas +1.5s
9. Alfa Romeo Racing +1.6s
10. Williams +1.7s

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-an...

[anonymous-user]

Seems more like it. Think the midfield well be quite compressed compared to last year.

We'll have an exciting, close season, just in time for it to change next year, when the big teams will separate out again with the new regs, all in the name of 'improved racing'.

[Blib]

At least those times give Russell a sniff of some overtaking this season.

[coppice]

God above - only a sport with its head as far up its arse as F 1 would even countenance having teams called Alpha and Alfa. See also Lotus and...err ... Lotus

[DanielSan]

coppice said:

God above - only a sport with its head as far up its arse as F 1 would even countenance having teams called Alpha and Alfa. See also Lotus and...err ... Lotus

I know, I mean it's not like there's 2 Manchester's in the premier league is there.

[coppice]

Umm..is that Association Football , where names a re geographical ? In that deeply tedious game you only have two teams playing at once i think ? And one doesn't make an opportunistic overtake at 180mph in a maneouvre involving three other teams. Maybe we should just call every team Lotus ? It was a work in progress a few years ago .