Formula 1 Pre-season Testing February 2020
Discussion
Teams have released a statement following the ‘deal’ between the FIA and Ferrari -
“ We, the undersigned teams, were surprised and shocked by the FIA’s statement of Friday 28 February regarding the conclusion of its investigation into the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 Power Unit.
An international sporting regulator has the responsibility to act with the highest standards of governance, integrity and transparency.
After months of investigations that were undertaken by the FIA only following queries raised by other teams, we strongly object to the FIA reaching a confidential settlement agreement with Ferrari to conclude this matter.
Therefore, we hereby state publicly our shared commitment to pursue full and proper disclosure in this matter, to ensure that our sport treats all competitors fairly and equally. We do so on behalf of the fans, the participants and the stakeholders of Formula One.
In addition, we reserve our rights to seek legal redress, within the FIA’s due process and before the competent courts.
McLaren Racing Limited
Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Limited
Racing Point UK Limited
Red Bull Racing Limited
Renault Sport Racing Limited
Scuderia Alpha Tauri S.p.A.
Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited”
“ We, the undersigned teams, were surprised and shocked by the FIA’s statement of Friday 28 February regarding the conclusion of its investigation into the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 Power Unit.
An international sporting regulator has the responsibility to act with the highest standards of governance, integrity and transparency.
After months of investigations that were undertaken by the FIA only following queries raised by other teams, we strongly object to the FIA reaching a confidential settlement agreement with Ferrari to conclude this matter.
Therefore, we hereby state publicly our shared commitment to pursue full and proper disclosure in this matter, to ensure that our sport treats all competitors fairly and equally. We do so on behalf of the fans, the participants and the stakeholders of Formula One.
In addition, we reserve our rights to seek legal redress, within the FIA’s due process and before the competent courts.
McLaren Racing Limited
Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Limited
Racing Point UK Limited
Red Bull Racing Limited
Renault Sport Racing Limited
Scuderia Alpha Tauri S.p.A.
Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited”
coppice said:
God above - only a sport with its head as far up its arse as F 1 would even countenance having teams called Alpha and Alfa. See also Lotus and...err ... Lotus
It's not really up to the sport what names teams compete under. Aside from that, is it confusing? - The commentators and presenters are using each teams full name so no issue so far as I can see.That’s some statement from the other teams, this isn’t going away any time soon and casts a huge shadow over the governance of the sport as everyone heads to Australia at the weekend.
It sounds like the FIA were initially okay with what Ferrari did, most likely without a full understanding.
It will have been something like a fuel line that balloons under pressure, increasing its volume, on the engine side of the flow meter, which in certain engine modes would have a high pressure fuel pump continue to push fuel when the throttle was lifted off in order to fill up the balloon. This extra stored fuel could then be deployed on full throttle, allowing the actual engine burn to be higher than the flow meter reading. They would have disguised this by saying something like we want to put a large shroud around the fuel line for cooling purposes, when actually it was to hide the balloon.
It sounds like the FIA were initially okay with what Ferrari did, most likely without a full understanding.
It will have been something like a fuel line that balloons under pressure, increasing its volume, on the engine side of the flow meter, which in certain engine modes would have a high pressure fuel pump continue to push fuel when the throttle was lifted off in order to fill up the balloon. This extra stored fuel could then be deployed on full throttle, allowing the actual engine burn to be higher than the flow meter reading. They would have disguised this by saying something like we want to put a large shroud around the fuel line for cooling purposes, when actually it was to hide the balloon.
TheDeuce said:
coppice said:
God above - only a sport with its head as far up its arse as F 1 would even countenance having teams called Alpha and Alfa. See also Lotus and...err ... Lotus
It's not really up to the sport what names teams compete under. Aside from that, is it confusing? - The commentators and presenters are using each teams full name so no issue so far as I can see.Petrus1983 said:
Teams have released a statement following the ‘deal’ between the FIA and Ferrari -
“ We, the undersigned teams, were surprised and shocked by the FIA’s statement of Friday 28 February regarding the conclusion of its investigation into the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 Power Unit.
An international sporting regulator has the responsibility to act with the highest standards of governance, integrity and transparency.
After months of investigations that were undertaken by the FIA only following queries raised by other teams, we strongly object to the FIA reaching a confidential settlement agreement with Ferrari to conclude this matter.
Therefore, we hereby state publicly our shared commitment to pursue full and proper disclosure in this matter, to ensure that our sport treats all competitors fairly and equally. We do so on behalf of the fans, the participants and the stakeholders of Formula One.
In addition, we reserve our rights to seek legal redress, within the FIA’s due process and before the competent courts.
McLaren Racing Limited
Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Limited
Racing Point UK Limited
Red Bull Racing Limited
Renault Sport Racing Limited
Scuderia Alpha Tauri S.p.A.
Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited”
Jeez. However precious Ferrari might be to the sport I don't think they're as precious as that list of teams combined.“ We, the undersigned teams, were surprised and shocked by the FIA’s statement of Friday 28 February regarding the conclusion of its investigation into the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 Power Unit.
An international sporting regulator has the responsibility to act with the highest standards of governance, integrity and transparency.
After months of investigations that were undertaken by the FIA only following queries raised by other teams, we strongly object to the FIA reaching a confidential settlement agreement with Ferrari to conclude this matter.
Therefore, we hereby state publicly our shared commitment to pursue full and proper disclosure in this matter, to ensure that our sport treats all competitors fairly and equally. We do so on behalf of the fans, the participants and the stakeholders of Formula One.
In addition, we reserve our rights to seek legal redress, within the FIA’s due process and before the competent courts.
McLaren Racing Limited
Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Limited
Racing Point UK Limited
Red Bull Racing Limited
Renault Sport Racing Limited
Scuderia Alpha Tauri S.p.A.
Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited”
Ferrari are starting to feel under some fire this season no doubt, with this farce along with travel ban headaches, team members not able to get to the factory and a car they insist they're not all that happy with..
This particular problem, on at least some levels is of their own making though. Frankly it's hard to see how the FIA can defend their decision if its formally challenged without revealing the terms of the settlement and the transgressions that lead to a settlement being needed in the first place.. If litigation begins, I can't see how that can in the end be avoided.
Frankly I'd hope the FIA get real and about turn. Just make it clear what is not acceptable in terms of fuel hi-jinks, let the teams know to what level Ferrari broke the rules (even if no specifics), and then be open about the penalty applied. It's obvious surely that the other teams need to know roughly how naughty Ferrari were and subsequently how hard their wrists have been slapped... It's not too much to ask.
thegreenhell said:
TheDeuce said:
coppice said:
God above - only a sport with its head as far up its arse as F 1 would even countenance having teams called Alpha and Alfa. See also Lotus and...err ... Lotus
It's not really up to the sport what names teams compete under. Aside from that, is it confusing? - The commentators and presenters are using each teams full name so no issue so far as I can see.
TheDeuce said:
Jeez. However precious Ferrari might be to the sport I don't think they're as precious as that list of teams combined.
Ferrari are starting to feel under some fire this season no doubt, with this farce along with travel ban headaches, team members not able to get to the factory and a car they insist they're not all that happy with..
This particular problem, on at least some levels is of their own making though. Frankly it's hard to see how the FIA can defend their decision if its formally challenged without revealing the terms of the settlement and the transgressions that lead to a settlement being needed in the first place.. If litigation begins, I can't see how that can in the end be avoided.
Frankly I'd hope the FIA get real and about turn. Just make it clear what is not acceptable in terms of fuel hi-jinks, let the teams know to what level Ferrari broke the rules (even if no specifics), and then be open about the penalty applied. It's obvious surely that the other teams need to know roughly how naughty Ferrari were and subsequently how hard their wrists have been slapped... It's not too much to ask.
Red Bull in particular are not going to give up on this. Quite apart from Dr Marko and Mr Horner’s attitudes in general to complaining, they have a legitimate point that Ferrari’s cheating may have cost RBR second place in the championship last year, and with it many millions in prize money and sponsorship. Ferrari are starting to feel under some fire this season no doubt, with this farce along with travel ban headaches, team members not able to get to the factory and a car they insist they're not all that happy with..
This particular problem, on at least some levels is of their own making though. Frankly it's hard to see how the FIA can defend their decision if its formally challenged without revealing the terms of the settlement and the transgressions that lead to a settlement being needed in the first place.. If litigation begins, I can't see how that can in the end be avoided.
Frankly I'd hope the FIA get real and about turn. Just make it clear what is not acceptable in terms of fuel hi-jinks, let the teams know to what level Ferrari broke the rules (even if no specifics), and then be open about the penalty applied. It's obvious surely that the other teams need to know roughly how naughty Ferrari were and subsequently how hard their wrists have been slapped... It's not too much to ask.
Having thought about it a bit more, I reckon it’s going to be very difficult for the FIA to come clean in a way that doesn’t either implicate themselves or make a case for having Ferrari thrown out of the 2019 championship. Hence the rushed statement as everyone was packing up in Barcelona, hoping it would be forgotten about in short order.
There’s a Charlie Whiting - sized hole in this saga, one doesn’t imagine it would have happened were the old man still around watching over the sport.
Edited by Sandpit Steve on Wednesday 4th March 10:55
Sandpit Steve said:
Having thought about it a bit more, I reckon it’s going to be very difficult for the FIA to come clean in a way that doesn’t either implicate themselves or make a case for having Ferrari thrown out of the 2019 championship. Hence the rushed statement as everyone was packing up in Barcelona, hoping it would be forgotten about in short order.
Which shows just how out of date the FIA and their 'special relationship' with Ferrari is. In the modern connected world... Hundreds of F1 fanatics are on social media ready to highlight and debate in detail things that 20 years ago, perhaps could have been overlooked.Even if in the end it turns out Ferrari didn't do very much wrong, perhaps just sailed too close to bending a few regs with no real benefit, the FIA themselves now have a lot to answer for regardless.
Should ideally keep the Ferrari/FIA debate to this thread I guess: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
TheDeuce said:
Should ideally keep the Ferrari/FIA debate to this thread I guess: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thanks - I’d forgotten about that thread. TheDeuce said:
Which shows just how out of date the FIA and their 'special relationship' with Ferrari is. In the modern connected world... Hundreds of F1 fanatics are on social media ready to highlight and debate in detail things that 20 years ago, perhaps could have been overlooked.
Even if in the end it turns out Ferrari didn't do very much wrong, perhaps just sailed too close to bending a few regs with no real benefit, the FIA themselves now have a lot to answer for regardless.
But the benefit was clear and measurable. Even if in the end it turns out Ferrari didn't do very much wrong, perhaps just sailed too close to bending a few regs with no real benefit, the FIA themselves now have a lot to answer for regardless.
When they issued the technical clarifications to Redbulls questions the advantage went away.
There's literally no way both the FIA and Ferrari can come out of this unscathed.
I'm also a bit sick of Ferrari's thinly veiled threats of leaving the sport. They can leave if they want to I'll still watch.
Sandpit Steve said:
There’s a Charlie Whiting - sized hole in this saga, one doesn’t imagine it would have happened were the old man still around watching over the sport.
Really? As good at his job as he was it's not like he hasn't been involved in some Ferrari assistance over the years. Edited by Sandpit Steve on Wednesday 4th March 10:55
SpudLink said:
Petrus1983 said:
McLaren Racing Limited
Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Limited
Racing Point UK Limited
Red Bull Racing Limited
Renault Sport Racing Limited
Scuderia Alpha Tauri S.p.A.
Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited”
Haas are notably absent from that list. Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Limited
Racing Point UK Limited
Red Bull Racing Limited
Renault Sport Racing Limited
Scuderia Alpha Tauri S.p.A.
Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited”
DanielSan said:
Sandpit Steve said:
There’s a Charlie Whiting - sized hole in this saga, one doesn’t imagine it would have happened were the old man still around watching over the sport.
Really? As good at his job as he was it's not like he hasn't been involved in some Ferrari assistance over the years. Edited by Sandpit Steve on Wednesday 4th March 10:55
No way would Charlie have allowed that statement to be sent out just as everyone was packing up in Barcelona, in the vain hope the problem would just disappear.
SpudLink said:
Petrus1983 said:
McLaren Racing Limited
Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Limited
Racing Point UK Limited
Red Bull Racing Limited
Renault Sport Racing Limited
Scuderia Alpha Tauri S.p.A.
Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited”
Haas are notably absent from that list. Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Limited
Racing Point UK Limited
Red Bull Racing Limited
Renault Sport Racing Limited
Scuderia Alpha Tauri S.p.A.
Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited”
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