Haas on the way out?
Discussion
FourWheelDrift said:
Button wasn't a late bloomer he won the title at 29, 16th youngest champion.
It perhaps felt like he was a late bloomer because it took him ten years in F1 to win the championship.I think that only Mansell and Nico Rosberg had been in F1 for longer before winning their titles.Grosjean's replacement has been getting some secret testing in at the Fuji circuit in Japan. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOD3k6oMyUk
HAAS were basically created at the whim of Ferrari, who gave them a pot to piss in with their PU, it didn't matter that the car was always going to be noncompetitive dynamically, they could at least romp around the midfield with their Ferrari power.
Now, Ferrari, due to cheat-gate 2019, have taken away the pot.
It's hard to see anything very promising on Ferrari's horizon, and certainly nothing on HAAS's.. Seriously.. How long until Gene cuts his losses? He must be bored as much as anything at this stage, let alone being left with a team that no longer has the ingredients for even moderate success.
I predict a pull out ASAP. Ahead of the new agreement deadline. If not, Gene must REALLY love being in F1 just for the sake of being in it.
Now, Ferrari, due to cheat-gate 2019, have taken away the pot.
It's hard to see anything very promising on Ferrari's horizon, and certainly nothing on HAAS's.. Seriously.. How long until Gene cuts his losses? He must be bored as much as anything at this stage, let alone being left with a team that no longer has the ingredients for even moderate success.
I predict a pull out ASAP. Ahead of the new agreement deadline. If not, Gene must REALLY love being in F1 just for the sake of being in it.
Will O. Bey jr said:
Don't forget that Haas is the only team from the same country as the owners of this show. I'm guessing there might be some incentives for the owners to keep the team in the game.
Good point and I hope they do, team Haas has shown a new team can arrive and do well quite quickly - regardless of the link to Ferrari they did a great job for a new team - look at all the new teams that failed or never even got to the grid.Can’t see him wasting a single dollar he’s a smart businessman and will go as soon as it stops making financial sense for his business.
Will O. Bey jr said:
Don't forget that Haas is the only team from the same country as the owners of this show. I'm guessing there might be some incentives for the owners to keep the team in the game.
Maybe.. Although by the same token Ferrari could probably look through their black book of US billionaire's they've hosted over the years and find another willing to buy the team. Thus ingratiating Liberty and reminding them of the political power and draw of Ferrari in the sport.Although from Liberty's point of view having a US team in the sport is only a selling point if they're not constantly embarrassed..
markcoznottz said:
He is thought to be one of the fastest drivers on his day, which admittedly doesn’t happen enough. . I’d like to see someone like him do well, but probably won’t happen. The late bloomer story always works well in f1, like mansell and button.
Would this be the same Grosjean who has the triple crown of stupid crashes?Formation Lap
Behind the safety car
In the pit lane
He has a certain set of talents that’s for sure
TheDeuce said:
HAAS were basically created at the whim of Ferrari, who gave them a pot to piss in with their PU, it didn't matter that the car was always going to be noncompetitive dynamically, they could at least romp around the midfield with their Ferrari power.
Now, Ferrari, due to cheat-gate 2019, have taken away the pot.
It's hard to see anything very promising on Ferrari's horizon, and certainly nothing on HAAS's.. Seriously.. How long until Gene cuts his losses? He must be bored as much as anything at this stage, let alone being left with a team that no longer has the ingredients for even moderate success.
I predict a pull out ASAP. Ahead of the new agreement deadline. If not, Gene must REALLY love being in F1 just for the sake of being in it.
Interesting observations there, Deuce... ...don't get in the ear shot from anybody at Haas, when you vocalise them...Now, Ferrari, due to cheat-gate 2019, have taken away the pot.
It's hard to see anything very promising on Ferrari's horizon, and certainly nothing on HAAS's.. Seriously.. How long until Gene cuts his losses? He must be bored as much as anything at this stage, let alone being left with a team that no longer has the ingredients for even moderate success.
I predict a pull out ASAP. Ahead of the new agreement deadline. If not, Gene must REALLY love being in F1 just for the sake of being in it.
Just read this 'flak'...
Grosjean admits Haas' F1 future the "elephant in the room"
Romain Grosjean admits his Haas Formula 1 team's future is the "elephant in the room" as he concedes he knows nothing about the American's squad plans after 2020.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-202...
Steiner: Grosjean "wrong" to talk Haas F1 future on its behalf
Haas Formula 1 boss Gunther Steiner says Romain Grosjean was "wrong" to speak on behalf of the team when addressing doubts about its future in the sport.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-gro...
Steiner: Grosjean should question his own future, not Haas’
Haas team boss Guenther Steiner has hit out at his own driver after Romain Grosjean questioned Haas’ future in Formula 1.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/07/17/steiner-...
Steiner: "Elephant in the room" over Grosjean's F1 future, not Haas'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner has downplayed Romain Grosjean's doubts over the future of the American Formula 1 team, remaining confident that it will still be in action in 2021.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/150631/steiner-e...
Steiner rebuffs Grosjean over Haas' F1 future: 'The elephant needs to be in his room'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner offered a sharp response after Romain Grosjean questioned the future of the American team in Formula 1.
https://www.insideracing.com/index.php/formula-1/1...
Grosjean apologises for Haas future comments
Paragraphs 6 & 7…
“Presumably chided behind the scenes by Steiner as well, Grosjean apologised.”
“I shouldn’t have said that,” he is quoted by L’Equipe.
https://grandpx.news/grosjean-apologises-for-haas-...
Fortitude said:
Interesting observations there, Deuce... ...don't get in the ear shot from anybody at Haas, when you vocalise them...
Just read this 'flak'...
Grosjean admits Haas' F1 future the "elephant in the room"
Romain Grosjean admits his Haas Formula 1 team's future is the "elephant in the room" as he concedes he knows nothing about the American's squad plans after 2020.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-202...
Steiner: Grosjean "wrong" to talk Haas F1 future on its behalf
Haas Formula 1 boss Gunther Steiner says Romain Grosjean was "wrong" to speak on behalf of the team when addressing doubts about its future in the sport.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-gro...
Steiner: Grosjean should question his own future, not Haas’
Haas team boss Guenther Steiner has hit out at his own driver after Romain Grosjean questioned Haas’ future in Formula 1.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/07/17/steiner-...
Steiner: "Elephant in the room" over Grosjean's F1 future, not Haas'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner has downplayed Romain Grosjean's doubts over the future of the American Formula 1 team, remaining confident that it will still be in action in 2021.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/150631/steiner-e...
Steiner rebuffs Grosjean over Haas' F1 future: 'The elephant needs to be in his room'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner offered a sharp response after Romain Grosjean questioned the future of the American team in Formula 1.
https://www.insideracing.com/index.php/formula-1/1...
Grosjean apologises for Haas future comments
Paragraphs 6 & 7…
“Presumably chided behind the scenes by Steiner as well, Grosjean apologised.”
“I shouldn’t have said that,” he is quoted by L’Equipe.
https://grandpx.news/grosjean-apologises-for-haas-...
Jeez... That's not a healthy relationship is it! Thems some grumpy words!Just read this 'flak'...
Grosjean admits Haas' F1 future the "elephant in the room"
Romain Grosjean admits his Haas Formula 1 team's future is the "elephant in the room" as he concedes he knows nothing about the American's squad plans after 2020.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-202...
Steiner: Grosjean "wrong" to talk Haas F1 future on its behalf
Haas Formula 1 boss Gunther Steiner says Romain Grosjean was "wrong" to speak on behalf of the team when addressing doubts about its future in the sport.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-gro...
Steiner: Grosjean should question his own future, not Haas’
Haas team boss Guenther Steiner has hit out at his own driver after Romain Grosjean questioned Haas’ future in Formula 1.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/07/17/steiner-...
Steiner: "Elephant in the room" over Grosjean's F1 future, not Haas'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner has downplayed Romain Grosjean's doubts over the future of the American Formula 1 team, remaining confident that it will still be in action in 2021.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/150631/steiner-e...
Steiner rebuffs Grosjean over Haas' F1 future: 'The elephant needs to be in his room'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner offered a sharp response after Romain Grosjean questioned the future of the American team in Formula 1.
https://www.insideracing.com/index.php/formula-1/1...
Grosjean apologises for Haas future comments
Paragraphs 6 & 7…
“Presumably chided behind the scenes by Steiner as well, Grosjean apologised.”
“I shouldn’t have said that,” he is quoted by L’Equipe.
https://grandpx.news/grosjean-apologises-for-haas-...
rallycross said:
Will O. Bey jr said:
Don't forget that Haas is the only team from the same country as the owners of this show. I'm guessing there might be some incentives for the owners to keep the team in the game.
Good point and I hope they do, team Haas has shown a new team can arrive and do well quite quickly - regardless of the link to Ferrari they did a great job for a new team - look at all the new teams that failed or never even got to the grid.Can’t see him wasting a single dollar he’s a smart businessman and will go as soon as it stops making financial sense for his business.
The thing is they have stagnated, their pace has settled to lower end of the midfield and their driver line up is frankly an ongoing joke. Maybe what they have done is the most that can be achieved with an 'off the shelf' F1 car but it doesn't feel like progress to me. Maybe their intention is merely to have a presence in F1 and that's enough? Who knows?
The only reasons I can see for Gene to keep pumping money into it is that with the budget cap coming Haas may gain some ground as their model is already quite low cost so they will have to change little whereas others may need to change a lot. But if I was Gene I think I would change both drivers for 2021 and I hate to say it but I think I'd change Gunther too, he's a very funny guy but some of the decision making at Haas has been very questionable to say the least. They need to do something different or they will always be languishing where they are.
Fortitude said:
Interesting observations there, Deuce... ...don't get in the ear shot from anybody at Haas, when you vocalise them...
Just read this 'flak'...
Grosjean admits Haas' F1 future the "elephant in the room"
Romain Grosjean admits his Haas Formula 1 team's future is the "elephant in the room" as he concedes he knows nothing about the American's squad plans after 2020.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-202...
Steiner: Grosjean "wrong" to talk Haas F1 future on its behalf
Haas Formula 1 boss Gunther Steiner says Romain Grosjean was "wrong" to speak on behalf of the team when addressing doubts about its future in the sport.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-gro...
Steiner: Grosjean should question his own future, not Haas’
Haas team boss Guenther Steiner has hit out at his own driver after Romain Grosjean questioned Haas’ future in Formula 1.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/07/17/steiner-...
Steiner: "Elephant in the room" over Grosjean's F1 future, not Haas'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner has downplayed Romain Grosjean's doubts over the future of the American Formula 1 team, remaining confident that it will still be in action in 2021.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/150631/steiner-e...
Steiner rebuffs Grosjean over Haas' F1 future: 'The elephant needs to be in his room'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner offered a sharp response after Romain Grosjean questioned the future of the American team in Formula 1.
https://www.insideracing.com/index.php/formula-1/1...
Grosjean apologises for Haas future comments
Paragraphs 6 & 7…
“Presumably chided behind the scenes by Steiner as well, Grosjean apologised.”
“I shouldn’t have said that,” he is quoted by L’Equipe.
https://grandpx.news/grosjean-apologises-for-haas-...
what an absolute shower of sJust read this 'flak'...
Grosjean admits Haas' F1 future the "elephant in the room"
Romain Grosjean admits his Haas Formula 1 team's future is the "elephant in the room" as he concedes he knows nothing about the American's squad plans after 2020.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-202...
Steiner: Grosjean "wrong" to talk Haas F1 future on its behalf
Haas Formula 1 boss Gunther Steiner says Romain Grosjean was "wrong" to speak on behalf of the team when addressing doubts about its future in the sport.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/haas-future-gro...
Steiner: Grosjean should question his own future, not Haas’
Haas team boss Guenther Steiner has hit out at his own driver after Romain Grosjean questioned Haas’ future in Formula 1.
https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/07/17/steiner-...
Steiner: "Elephant in the room" over Grosjean's F1 future, not Haas'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner has downplayed Romain Grosjean's doubts over the future of the American Formula 1 team, remaining confident that it will still be in action in 2021.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/150631/steiner-e...
Steiner rebuffs Grosjean over Haas' F1 future: 'The elephant needs to be in his room'
Haas boss Guenther Steiner offered a sharp response after Romain Grosjean questioned the future of the American team in Formula 1.
https://www.insideracing.com/index.php/formula-1/1...
Grosjean apologises for Haas future comments
Paragraphs 6 & 7…
“Presumably chided behind the scenes by Steiner as well, Grosjean apologised.”
“I shouldn’t have said that,” he is quoted by L’Equipe.
https://grandpx.news/grosjean-apologises-for-haas-...
t...I haven't seen more than a few clips of the Netfilx show but it is clear from thirty seconds viewing of the KMag door incident that the team is doomed under Steiner. the man is a clown.
Common Porpoise said:
what an absolute shower of st...
I haven't seen more than a few clips of the Netfilx show but it is clear from thirty seconds viewing of the KMag door incident that the team is doomed under Steiner. the man is a clown.
Personally, I thought neither Steiner or the two drivers came out of the Netflix documentary well. Steiner, a team principal that cannot lead his team or change things for the better, Magnussen utterly arrogant but without the chops to really back it up and Grosjean a gossip who airs dirty laundry by saying too much to the press and is disruptive as a result. Maybe Steiner is hamstrung either by people above him, or having to let a business plan 'play out' before Haas lets him make significant significant changes. But either way, nobody is looking any better publicly since the documentary aired and Grosjean particularly just cannot keep his mouth shut offering opinions on anything and everything.t...I haven't seen more than a few clips of the Netfilx show but it is clear from thirty seconds viewing of the KMag door incident that the team is doomed under Steiner. the man is a clown.
TheDeuce said:
Well... I don't actually disagree. When the cost caps were first announced I remember a long thread on these boards about the various ways it could be avoided by various teams... I contributed to that thread and in a nutshell, I agree with you and can't see how the caps can really be policed.
That said, Ferrari currently spend something like £400m a year, soon to be capped at about £150m. They'll probably struggle to hide the difference via creative accounting alone, even once they have separated driver and senior team members pay from the cap. It's not maybe not all about £££, it's potentially better in some ways to spread the costs across more than one team as they also then have double/three times the number of cars on track, effectively working towards the success of the main team in multiple ways.
As for will they buy HAAS? I can see it, wouldn't surprise me one bit. If they don't, there are a reasonable number of billionaires that have shown some interest in F1 over the years, even been linked to potentially investing in other teams. Some of these billionaires have sons that fancy themselves as F1 drivers.. I think it's a safe bet that if Gene sells up the team will be back on the grid come 2021 following a change of ownership and name.
you're in good company, John Barnard thinks its impossible to police too. Which has been my soapbox call for years, I mean say petronas give merc some new super lubricants, exactly how does the fia expect to police the accounts of the R&D of someone like Petronas who will have hundreds of projects and concepts being worked on with multiple recipients/objectives for the successful discoveries? Ditto across dozens of sponsors with subcontract/outsourcing abilities...That said, Ferrari currently spend something like £400m a year, soon to be capped at about £150m. They'll probably struggle to hide the difference via creative accounting alone, even once they have separated driver and senior team members pay from the cap. It's not maybe not all about £££, it's potentially better in some ways to spread the costs across more than one team as they also then have double/three times the number of cars on track, effectively working towards the success of the main team in multiple ways.
As for will they buy HAAS? I can see it, wouldn't surprise me one bit. If they don't, there are a reasonable number of billionaires that have shown some interest in F1 over the years, even been linked to potentially investing in other teams. Some of these billionaires have sons that fancy themselves as F1 drivers.. I think it's a safe bet that if Gene sells up the team will be back on the grid come 2021 following a change of ownership and name.
Mayhem this way comes...
Common Porpoise said:
what an absolute shower of st...
I haven't seen more than a few clips of the Netfilx show but it is clear from thirty seconds viewing of the KMag door incident that the team is doomed under Steiner. the man is a clown.
So is it something like this on Netflix?t...I haven't seen more than a few clips of the Netfilx show but it is clear from thirty seconds viewing of the KMag door incident that the team is doomed under Steiner. the man is a clown.
Guenther goes off on Magnussen and Grosjean. Mag smashes his office door.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6dFnuqHY10
Ben H 4 months ago •
0:45 "He does not fok smash my door"
Whilst Steiner certainly has an amusing and zany way of dealing with life's frustrations, I don't think he's the limiting factor in Hass's success. The car can only ever be fairly poor dynamically as the bits available to buy off the shelf are never going to be as well judged and regularly updated as a traditional constructor will manage for each season. But they were OK when they had Ferrari power. Now even Ferrari no longer have Ferrari power... Not as much of it as they were used too at least!
Grosjeans comedy of errors certainly hasn't helped either.... but then more dependable drivers tend to cost more too, and the whole point of the Haas project was F1 on a budget.
They tried to prove a new way of competing could work - and for a while it did - but only so long as the perfect mix of influencing factors beyond their control was maintained. Now they're down on power, and even before that the other teams were starting to get on top of the current era cars and all making steps forward that Haas simply aren't set up to follow. It worked early era, then as the era has progressed it worked less... And this season with the power deficit they're hopeless. I mean that literally, I can't imagine a single hope they can have of finding a tangible improvement this season.
Does anyone have a theory of what they can possibly do this season to improve anything enough to make a difference? I doubt that Steiner and Grosjean going to relationship counseling will find an extra second a lap
Grosjeans comedy of errors certainly hasn't helped either.... but then more dependable drivers tend to cost more too, and the whole point of the Haas project was F1 on a budget.
They tried to prove a new way of competing could work - and for a while it did - but only so long as the perfect mix of influencing factors beyond their control was maintained. Now they're down on power, and even before that the other teams were starting to get on top of the current era cars and all making steps forward that Haas simply aren't set up to follow. It worked early era, then as the era has progressed it worked less... And this season with the power deficit they're hopeless. I mean that literally, I can't imagine a single hope they can have of finding a tangible improvement this season.
Does anyone have a theory of what they can possibly do this season to improve anything enough to make a difference? I doubt that Steiner and Grosjean going to relationship counseling will find an extra second a lap
TheDeuce said:
Does anyone have a theory of what they can possibly do this season to improve anything enough to make a difference? I doubt that Steiner and Grosjean going to relationship counseling will find an extra second a lap
I suppose they have to 'evolve' and become more of an actual constructor and developer of their own chassis.As you said Deuce, if you do things on a limited budget, then there WILL be a ceiling to their overall successes.
IMHO, internally they NEED to ask what needs to be done next and then, can they find the finance and sponsorship for that improvement?
Haas really do deserve some midfield success and looked like they were there on entering.
That inital success was no doubt due to the big helping hand of ferrari at the start.
Later as they stood on their own feet they seem to have found it harder.
Very loyal to the 2 drivers but maybe its time for a change as they have both been around for ages
and are too angry when poked.
As much as I like Gunther and his unedited thoughts it can undermine confidence a bit in the long run and
I bet the only people amused are viewers watching from the outside.
Another team the new regs should help so they should stick around.
If its Perez that gets the stolljector seat they will be beating his door down. They could do him and another new one, probably one of those americans with a fast sounding name like chuck lightspeed lol.
That inital success was no doubt due to the big helping hand of ferrari at the start.
Later as they stood on their own feet they seem to have found it harder.
Very loyal to the 2 drivers but maybe its time for a change as they have both been around for ages
and are too angry when poked.
As much as I like Gunther and his unedited thoughts it can undermine confidence a bit in the long run and
I bet the only people amused are viewers watching from the outside.
Another team the new regs should help so they should stick around.
If its Perez that gets the stolljector seat they will be beating his door down. They could do him and another new one, probably one of those americans with a fast sounding name like chuck lightspeed lol.
Chose to put this information on an already existing Haas thread, rather than start another one…
Formula 1
HAAS DROPS GROSJEAN AND MAGNUSSEN FROM 2021 F1 LINE-UP
https://the-race.com/formula-1/haas-set-for-all-ne...
No decision made on 2021 Haas F1 drivers yet, says Steiner
• By Adam Cooper
• @adamcooperF1
• Published on Thursday October 22nd 2020
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152950/no-decisi...
Formula 1
HAAS DROPS GROSJEAN AND MAGNUSSEN FROM 2021 F1 LINE-UP
https://the-race.com/formula-1/haas-set-for-all-ne...
No decision made on 2021 Haas F1 drivers yet, says Steiner
• By Adam Cooper
• @adamcooperF1
• Published on Thursday October 22nd 2020
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152950/no-decisi...
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