F1 Sucks These Days
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
Red Bull Ring is a perfect example of where F1 went wrong. It's a pale shadow of the circuit it replaced.
Depends what you mean by pale shadow, the last three races we've had there have all been decent races, I'd rather see good races than preserve a circuit in aspic and get poor races.No it doesn't have the long open curves of the old Osterreichring but you know as well as I do that the cars had outgrown the circuit. 1400 bhp on a circuit where you almost never had to slow down, never dropping below 4th gear for the entire lap. Flat out from the start line all the way up to the old Tirok curve, at the start with all the cars bunched up, that was just dangerous.
The new circuit has the same "basic shape" as the old one just shorter and with tighter corners (personally I'd open up turns 1 and 3, particularly turn 1, it's a bit tight on the first lap.
It's OK to romanticise old tracks like the Österreichring or the Nordschleife (I do myself, if it were up to me Snetterton would still have the Norwich Straight so you could watch the cars as you drive past on the A11) but the kind of death toll F1 had in the 50s and 60s had would get F1 banned these days.
It's the long open, swooping curves that I really miss. The only circuit that still has such characteristics is Spa. The revised Spa circuit is an object lesson on how to redesign a circuit that almost is as good as the one it replaced.
Sadly, no other redesigned circuits have ended up with something better than the original.
Sadly, no other redesigned circuits have ended up with something better than the original.
Of course the ...err..Red Bull Ring , as it so crassly calls itself, is not a patch on the Osterreichring but neither is it anything like those parodies of race circuits in China and the Middle East , nor has it been butchered into anonymity like the poor old Hockenheim.
Real scenery, like Spa's ascents and desecents , woodland a la Monza or a decent city-scape like Monaco add immeasurably to the atmosphere on TV, as does a huge crowd of baying Italians(other national stereotypes are available ) .
But even in my ealry years of F1 addiction there was some right old tut too- Nivelles, Zolder anyone ? Or ten years later Dallas , Detroit and Vegas (but my , I wish we still had Long Beach )
At least Zandvoort is coming back , and I'd swap Singapore for Kyalami any day .
Real scenery, like Spa's ascents and desecents , woodland a la Monza or a decent city-scape like Monaco add immeasurably to the atmosphere on TV, as does a huge crowd of baying Italians(other national stereotypes are available ) .
But even in my ealry years of F1 addiction there was some right old tut too- Nivelles, Zolder anyone ? Or ten years later Dallas , Detroit and Vegas (but my , I wish we still had Long Beach )
At least Zandvoort is coming back , and I'd swap Singapore for Kyalami any day .
There are some lovely scenic circuits out there that I would love to see back. And even though someone mentioned that they wouldn't tolerate the death rate of the 60s and 70s, modern cars are so much safer than in those days that perhaps they could compromise on run offs the size of Texas.
My wish is to see cars that handle and behave like a 1967 F1 car with all the safety features of a modern car, even a Halo if necessary.
My wish is to see cars that handle and behave like a 1967 F1 car with all the safety features of a modern car, even a Halo if necessary.
Yes - it's really great that it has been included. I'd like to see Imola back too.
If they can bring back some more traditional circuits WITHOUT ravaging them in order comply with arbitrary requirements, that would be good. Maybe even Brands Hatch could reappear - or what about Oulton Park?
If they can bring back some more traditional circuits WITHOUT ravaging them in order comply with arbitrary requirements, that would be good. Maybe even Brands Hatch could reappear - or what about Oulton Park?
Norfolkit said:
Depends what you mean by pale shadow, the last three races we've had there have all been decent races, I'd rather see good races than preserve a circuit in aspic and get poor races.
No it doesn't have the long open curves of the old Osterreichring but you know as well as I do that the cars had outgrown the circuit. 1400 bhp on a circuit where you almost never had to slow down, never dropping below 4th gear for the entire lap. Flat out from the start line all the way up to the old Tirok curve, at the start with all the cars bunched up, that was just dangerous.
The new circuit has the same "basic shape" as the old one just shorter and with tighter corners (personally I'd open up turns 1 and 3, particularly turn 1, it's a bit tight on the first lap.
It's OK to romanticise old tracks like the Österreichring or the Nordschleife (I do myself, if it were up to me Snetterton would still have the Norwich Straight so you could watch the cars as you drive past on the A11) but the kind of death toll F1 had in the 50s and 60s had would get F1 banned these days.
We do tend to gloss over some of the problems with the historic circuits. I love Spa, and the climb up the hill past the pits is awesome. However, it's got problems, some not easily solved. As you say, it the racing that counts, and the RB circuit is a bit bland. No it doesn't have the long open curves of the old Osterreichring but you know as well as I do that the cars had outgrown the circuit. 1400 bhp on a circuit where you almost never had to slow down, never dropping below 4th gear for the entire lap. Flat out from the start line all the way up to the old Tirok curve, at the start with all the cars bunched up, that was just dangerous.
The new circuit has the same "basic shape" as the old one just shorter and with tighter corners (personally I'd open up turns 1 and 3, particularly turn 1, it's a bit tight on the first lap.
It's OK to romanticise old tracks like the Österreichring or the Nordschleife (I do myself, if it were up to me Snetterton would still have the Norwich Straight so you could watch the cars as you drive past on the A11) but the kind of death toll F1 had in the 50s and 60s had would get F1 banned these days.
I guess if you personally attended races in the past at these now shortened circuits you may have some feeling off loss having lived and breathed the atmosphere of the event.
On the TV you had a fuzzy low def picture and an over enthusiastic commentary to make up for the lack of information.
Being at the track and watching a race at an overlong track must be the ultimate waste of money.
You may only see the cars once every 3 to 5 minutes . All good if you like a natter till they come around again.
Why should a driver die needlessly because it takes so long to get to the scene of the accident?
I guess its for the benefit of someone sat safe living danger vicariously because they missed out on WW1 and WW2.
On the TV you had a fuzzy low def picture and an over enthusiastic commentary to make up for the lack of information.
Being at the track and watching a race at an overlong track must be the ultimate waste of money.
You may only see the cars once every 3 to 5 minutes . All good if you like a natter till they come around again.
Why should a driver die needlessly because it takes so long to get to the scene of the accident?
I guess its for the benefit of someone sat safe living danger vicariously because they missed out on WW1 and WW2.
NewUsername said:
Fundoreen said:
I guess its for the benefit of someone sat safe living danger vicariously because they missed out on WW1 and WW2.
Too much guessing......only bested by the amount of utter bell-endery in this commentFundoreen said:
NewUsername said:
Fundoreen said:
I guess its for the benefit of someone sat safe living danger vicariously because they missed out on WW1 and WW2.
Too much guessing......only bested by the amount of utter bell-endery in this commentComparing war to this is pathetic and downright disrespectful
Fundoreen said:
I guess if you personally attended races in the past at these now shortened circuits you may have some feeling off loss having lived and breathed the atmosphere of the event.
On the TV you had a fuzzy low def picture and an over enthusiastic commentary to make up for the lack of information.
Being at the track and watching a race at an overlong track must be the ultimate waste of money.
You may only see the cars once every 3 to 5 minutes . All good if you like a natter till they come around again.
Why should a driver die needlessly because it takes so long to get to the scene of the accident?
I guess its for the benefit of someone sat safe living danger vicariously because they missed out on WW1 and WW2.
What a very odd post. I don't know how old you are but you have a very skewed and wildly inaccurate picture of racing in the past . I started watching motor sport live in 1968 ,as a teenager , and have attended about 700 events , ,maybe more , mainly in UK but also in Europe and the USA . Nobody I have ever met was using racing as an ersatz war , some ghoulish spectacle to enjoy , nor I have ever met anyone who was annoyed at having missed a war . On the TV you had a fuzzy low def picture and an over enthusiastic commentary to make up for the lack of information.
Being at the track and watching a race at an overlong track must be the ultimate waste of money.
You may only see the cars once every 3 to 5 minutes . All good if you like a natter till they come around again.
Why should a driver die needlessly because it takes so long to get to the scene of the accident?
I guess its for the benefit of someone sat safe living danger vicariously because they missed out on WW1 and WW2.
So far as death on the track was concerned, it was far more dangerous than now - as current racing is far more dangerous than it will be in future . But here's the thing - ever since safety started becoming important , which in F 1 was in the late 60s , every successive year produced the safest racing we'd ever had - because what preceded it had always been worse and we were obviously unaware of the future improvements which would take place. IN 1999 we would have said F1 was very safe - but with the 20/20 vision which hindsight endows , we'd now say 'God , no halos , and not even HANS! '
I have been at -thank God - only two race meetings when someone was killed . One on 1986 and one in 2014 - and both in historic cars . Broken bones and so on were more common , but it was hardly a carnage -fest , in any era I have lived through. You'd get more of that at a point to point meeting ...
Long circuits ? 'Ultimate waste of money' ? Sounds like you'd better stick to Mallory or Brands Indy .... I must be more patient , and I have never resented the hours I 've spent waiting for a rally car to arrive at a stage , and if I';d been lucky enough to have seen a Grand Prix at old Spa, Nurburgring or Pescara ( just the 16 miles ! ) I'd have loved it . If I could see one event from the past it would be the Targa Florio sometime between 1965 and 1970 - just the 45 miles and a 33 minute lap record...
My only experience of watching races at a circuit is in SA, with Kyalami being the biggest one, and this would generally have been in the 1990s. I generally preferred watching the races on TV because the quality of information trackside wasn't good enough to let me know what was going on. The cars or bikes would come around whatever corner I could see once every minute or two, I heard them all start, and then when I couldn't hear them anymore I knew they'd finished.
For the first few laps I'd know who is leading but once they started catching backmarkers I'd have no idea who was there. Occasionally a racer that came around last lap wouldn't come past again. I'd have no idea what happened to them.
It was a nice day out and good to see cars, trucks and bikes going around a track, or good if you want to take photos of racers, but if I was actually interested in the result of the race, I'd never have gone to the track to watch it. I'd never have watched a Formula 1 race there, and there were few opportunities to do so anyway. I did, however, go there to see one of the testing sessions, and that was fantastic. Firstly, I could get much closer to the cars, and much closer to the track. Secondly, I got a real impression of how fast a Formula 1 car is compared to everything else I'd seen going around a track. The spectacle, the noise and the speed are all things that you'd never be able to get from TV.
And the circuit itself makes a big difference too. I've been to Brands Hatch a few times and I really enjoy watching from there. Again, I generally have little interest in the result, but at Brands it is easier to keep track of what is going on, and you can still get some good views on a very picturesque track. I keep meaning to go see the Grand Prix Masters (or whatever it's called now) there but have missed it. I have heard and can imagine that Monaco is a great circuit to watch a race live at. I can't see the appeal in going to Silverstone for a Formula 1 GP though.
For the first few laps I'd know who is leading but once they started catching backmarkers I'd have no idea who was there. Occasionally a racer that came around last lap wouldn't come past again. I'd have no idea what happened to them.
It was a nice day out and good to see cars, trucks and bikes going around a track, or good if you want to take photos of racers, but if I was actually interested in the result of the race, I'd never have gone to the track to watch it. I'd never have watched a Formula 1 race there, and there were few opportunities to do so anyway. I did, however, go there to see one of the testing sessions, and that was fantastic. Firstly, I could get much closer to the cars, and much closer to the track. Secondly, I got a real impression of how fast a Formula 1 car is compared to everything else I'd seen going around a track. The spectacle, the noise and the speed are all things that you'd never be able to get from TV.
And the circuit itself makes a big difference too. I've been to Brands Hatch a few times and I really enjoy watching from there. Again, I generally have little interest in the result, but at Brands it is easier to keep track of what is going on, and you can still get some good views on a very picturesque track. I keep meaning to go see the Grand Prix Masters (or whatever it's called now) there but have missed it. I have heard and can imagine that Monaco is a great circuit to watch a race live at. I can't see the appeal in going to Silverstone for a Formula 1 GP though.
For me , TV motorsport is like reading a restaurant review compared to eating out ,No taste , no smell and no noise . Worse still , I am only shown what the director wants me to see rather what I want to see , and from which angle . With practice , it' s easy to keep track - if you are actually bothered , of course . I want to track who is where in , say FF1600 , but with spectacular cars in dull races (a common enough phenomenon ) I am happy to soak up the spectacle . TV is always predicated upon 'the battle' for top places - no matter how dull the 'battle' is , and TV so often ignores the stuff that really enthralls, often well down the field .
Pit stop races are bloody hard to follow - so just use TSL live timing on your phone - every position, every lap , every gap , every ;lap time .
As for Silverstone , there are better circuits but I watched F1 there from 71 to 2013 . And having seen Peterson at Woodcote 73 , Watson';s win in 81 ,Mansell';s move on Piquet at Stowe in 87 and having watched Rosberg's astonishing 161mph pole in 85 and a host of other stuff I am delighted , and privileged, that I was there .
Ultimately , TV is just sitting on your arse in your front room watching telly .
Pit stop races are bloody hard to follow - so just use TSL live timing on your phone - every position, every lap , every gap , every ;lap time .
As for Silverstone , there are better circuits but I watched F1 there from 71 to 2013 . And having seen Peterson at Woodcote 73 , Watson';s win in 81 ,Mansell';s move on Piquet at Stowe in 87 and having watched Rosberg's astonishing 161mph pole in 85 and a host of other stuff I am delighted , and privileged, that I was there .
Ultimately , TV is just sitting on your arse in your front room watching telly .
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